Who would fish without eels?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Is there anyone who thinks they stand a legitimate chance for a trophy with jigs or plugs?

Let's see, Cinto got a 73 on a Plug, Stetzko a 73 on a teaser, McReynolds a 78 on a Rebel, and some guy in NC a 70 on a Mann's stretch. I think Iron Mike got a 60 on a needle, likewise Tony C a 60, likewise Tim Coleman a 60. Is your question limited only to the canal? Must be.

[Tagger]

I thought eel guys had big tanks with mutible airators buried in thier yards so never to run out of eels .. How about chunks ? You could chum and chunk .

[Flaptail]

Now remember, even in the canal the biggest bass ever taken there was taken on a plug, a Stan Gibbs 4oz Castalure Blue wave popper and it weighed 65lbs.

No question an eel will up your chances for bigger bass though, not quite as challenging though, but your success rate ratio will certainly be higher.

When Stifftip and I and a few others were commercially selling bass in the 70's and 80's we always drifted live eels in the canal in the mid summer to late fall on new moon and overcast night tides. One of my biggest canal bass, a 45 pounder came on an eel on September 17th, 1985.

It's the right time for it thats for sure. Use sled dogs (large fat eels) and conventional tackle for best success and go 40 lb mono and tie direct no snap or swivel just straight to the hook.

[rickhern]

Chris, PM me. I have a couple of dozen I think, in my tank, big ones too. Take 'em and replace 'em.

Rick

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Let's see, Cinto got a 73 on a Plug, Stetzko a 73 on a teaser, McReynolds a 78 on a Rebel, and some guy in NC a 70 on a Mann's stretch. I think Iron Mike got a 60 on a needle, likewise Tony C a 60, likewise Tim Coleman a 60. Is your question limited only to the canal? Must be.

Numby, I only know three anglers on your list personally. If the others mentioned got their large using the same methods as two of the guys who have told me their first hand accounts, the forests shall remain safe for the time being. If I had set the World Record three nights ago,I was thinking yozuri. Many times when the bass are on eels, the blues won't even eat wood.Believe half of what you hear regarding the alleged catches on plugs.This is not a canal only discussion.

[FormerUser]

I'll take a Hab's needle over a slimy any day.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by basswipe

I'll take a Hab's needle over a slimy any day.

Maybe for personal preference, but not if you want to consistently catch fish

I love throwing plugs.
I enjoy it.
I like the challenge.
I'm also lazy and like catching fish, so I throw eels 90% of the time.

Would I still go?

Of course.
I went last night with 4 dead eels and a riggie.
90% of the confidence I have with live eels...

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

.This is not a canal only discussion.

Then it becomes a discussion about how much confidence you have in your skill as a fisherman. If you are sure you can't catch large fish with wood, plastic, or lead then you probably can't. Better to ask why not, than to pretend it can't be done.

[Nebe]

There are also those who can not play guitar or play pool with out drinking alcohol..

fishing live eels is a filthy sinful addiction.

[Clogston29]

if your talking about a specific set of conditions inwhich you've fished many times and only eels have done the job (which I'm assuming is the case since you have a particular spot and tide planned out), it probably is best to just stay home - especially on a work night. i've always found that heading out without confidence is usually just a waste of gas. the focus isn't there, you just think about what you should be doing, rather than what you are doing, and its just a waste. save your energy and gas money for a trip you'll be confident in. i don't have any canal experience, but the moon wouldn't have helped my plugging confidence last night either.

i really enjoy fishing plugs, but there are times and places where only an eel or riggie will do - especially if focused on a trophy. and your definately right on about the whole eel/plug story.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

i guess it depends on what you call a trophy bass.one of the areas i fish a 20lber is a trophy fish these days and very few are caught on eels mostly tins and pencils.another area on LI a 50lber is a trophy bass and again most are caught on darters,bucktails and tins. it is all about location that dictates what works best.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Nebe

There are also those who can not play guitar or play pool with out drinking alcohol..

fishing live eels is a filthy sinful addiction.

Hey, I resent that personal attack

Not guilty, your Honor, I not only deny the allegations, but I dislike the alligator

Just remember, Nebe, it's not always what you do, it's who you let see you do it

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Numby, I only know three anglers on your list personally. If the others mentioned got their large using the same methods as two of the guys who have told me their first hand accounts, the forests shall remain safe for the time being. .

OK, I'll call. Cinto's fish seems well established to have been on a plug. The one from NC was witnessed. Tony C I know. McReynold's...who knows...but probably not you. Coleman's has been published so many times by a guy who spent a lot of time teaching others what he knows that I doubt he is lying, so that leaves Iron Mike (and by association, Habs) and Stezko as the liars. Can't understand why Stetzko would make up a story that includes an eel (maybe he was fishing clams instead?). So one is left to conclude you are implying Iron Mike/Habs and either Tim Coleman/Stetzko are lying to hide some secret technique they used....as if fishing bait for large fish is worth lying about. Perhaps someone else is bluffing here to support a weak argument?

[bart]

Originally Posted by numbskull

So one is left to conclude you are implying Iron Mike/Habs and either Tim Coleman/Stetzko are lying to hide some secret technique they used....as if fishing bait for large fish is worth lying about. Perhaps someone else is bluffing here to support a weak argument?

i think a lot of people believe Iron Mike's fish was really caught on an eel, but said it was caught on a Hab's to help his buddy out. I don't know if that's true or not, i just know that a lot of people think this. another thing that happens all the time, that I think SD was referring to, is that people catch a big fish on an eel then stick a custom plug in its mouth, take a pic, in hopes of getting freebies out of it......

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by bart

i think a lot of people believe Iron Mike's fish was really caught on an eel, but said it was caught on a Hab's to help his buddy out. I don't know if that's true or not, i just know that a lot of people think this. another thing that happens all the time, that I think SD was referring to, is that people catch a big fish on an eel then stick a custom plug in its mouth, take a pic, in hopes of getting freebies out of it......

Soooooooooooooo.....we are to assume that Hab's didn't know and unwittingly propagated the lie to his own benefit? Interesting. And why would guys who have no faith in plugs be carrying custom plugs in the first place and want freebies that they don't use? To sell on ebay perhaps? This whole discussion is certainly enlightening.

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by numbskull

And why would guys who have no faith in plugs be carrying custom plugs in the first place and want freebies that they don't use? To sell on ebay perhaps? This whole discussion is certainly enlightening.

Glory...

[Sea Flat]

Put on a tandem rigged 14" black Hogy with eel scent on it and you are good to go!!!

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by bart

i think a lot of people believe Iron Mike's fish was really caught on an eel, but said it was caught on a Hab's to help his buddy out. I don't know if that's true or not, i just know that a lot of people think this. another thing that happens all the time, that I think SD was referring to, is that people catch a big fish on an eel then stick a custom plug in its mouth, take a pic, in hopes of getting freebies out of it......

When guys like Cinto, Tim Coleman and Stetzko got their big fish, the freebie possibilities weren't there. Coleman was the editor of The Fisherman--he probably had freebies stacked on his desk like cordwood. The last thing he probably needed was more free plugs

In Cinto's case--if the fish was caught on an eel, and he told the truth, it would have been accepted as a world record. Why would he lie about catching it on a plug, when saying that it was caught on a lure with multiple trebles (not accepted by IGFA as legit at the time) disqualified it?

Nowadays? Sure. Guys do it. And some guys, who write, have been known to trash certain plugs in print precisely because the builder wouldn't grease them. The internet's made it even worse. The old saying, "believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear" has never held more water than on internet fishing sites.

Bottom line: over the course of the season, over the vast majority of fishing terrain in the Northeast, you will hang more big fish on eels than on any piece of wood, plastic or lead. It's not even open to debate. If I was still fishing for the buck, you bet yer arse I'd be slinging snakes, especially in the last hour and a half of the west tide, and the first couple of the east, in the Canal

[Rockport24]

this is getting interesting, but to get away from the controversial stuff.... like a few have mentioned, it's all about your confidence. Of course if you are like me and really depend on live eels at night, then of course your confidence is going to be low without them.
It's just like on the kayak now, if I don't have a tube and worm with nice fresh worms, my confidence goes way down trolling or casting sluggos or plugs.

[5/0]

Nope not me!
Chris,
At this point with 4 day's left in the Tourney & with the perfect alignment of negative tides,moon phase,bait,water temp & ideal weather IMHO Thursday & Friday morning will be the time Togo but not with shoestring eels.......It's just not worth the gas,money,and sleep deprivation,I can't se the point in waking up 6 hrs. before work to drive down to the kill zone with intentions of going large but instead to have all those thoughts deflated buy micro eels balling up on me or just as bad not being able to cast out far enough for a proper offering No thanks I'll have to pass.


Bob

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by numbskull

OK, I'll call. Cinto's fish seems well established to have been on a plug. The one from NC was witnessed. Tony C I know. McReynold's...who knows...but probably not you. Coleman's has been published so many times by a guy who spent a lot of time teaching others what he knows that I doubt he is lying, so that leaves Iron Mike (and by association, Habs) and Stezko as the liars. Can't understand why Stetzko would make up a story that includes an eel (maybe he was fishing clams instead?). So one is left to conclude you are implying Iron Mike/Habs and either Tim Coleman/Stetzko are lying to hide some secret technique they used....as if fishing bait for large fish is worth lying about. Perhaps someone else is bluffing here to support a weak argument?

I'm flattered to see so much thought was put into your hypothesis George. However, your thought process and deductive reasoning is flawed in this instance. I would also prefer to call this a discussion rather than dragging it down to the inevitable argument. Some people you may not know as well as you think you do. I really see no need for investigative reporting to root out the perpetrators. Bluff? No, I'm not playing poker here.
I realize you're a plugger and proud of it. The method obviously brings you a lot of pleasure between the building and the fishing and in the end, the catching.Please try not to take it personally. I've seen and admired your work and would love to own one.And no, not to sell on ebay. I'm not saying I don't plug at all. I'm just saying my method for targetting trophies is live bait.No need to try and read between the lines here. By the way, I too have caught my fair share of 30# class fish on jigs and wood.I also know of plug only charter captains that slay with wood. If the method had produced the results I have gotten with live bait we would not be having this discussion.Try to keep your faith in mankind without making assumptions based on your imagination.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

..... your thought process and deductive reasoning is flawed in this instance....... Some people you may not know as well as you think you do. I really see no need for investigative reporting to root out the perpetrators. Bluff? No, I'm not playing poker here......

OK, I'll buy that very interesting bit of information.....though it certainly reflects poorly on someone no longer around to defend his reputation.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I realize you're a plugger and proud of it............Please try not to take it personally. Try to keep your faith in mankind without making assumptions based on your imagination.

I must say my "faith in mankind" has been dented a bit by the above. Regardless, although I am proud of catching fish on plugs I build, I can't think of a fish I have caught in years that I'd be proud of based on size alone. Which is EXACTLY why I choose to fish plugs. I could fish eels, scup, bunker, shad, and even fluke every bit as well as anyone you know (I have the boat skills and knowledge and equipment to do so), and undoubtably I'd catch more large fish, but I reject the proposition that the size or number of fish one catches is the best measure of accomplishment. I think the obstacles overcome in making a catch are far more meaningful.

What gets my dander up is the suggestion that big fish do not fall to plugs. They obviously do, even if the level of difficulty at accomplishing it is beyond what you are interested in investing in fishing to get out of the sport what you want. To discourage others from trying is more self serving than helpful.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by numbskull

OK, I'll buy that very interesting bit of information.....though it certainly reflects poorly on someone no longer around to defend his reputation.



I must say my "faith in mankind" has been dented a bit by the above. Regardless, although I am proud of catching fish on plugs I build, I can't think of a fish I have caught in years that I'd be proud of based on size alone. Which is EXACTLY why I choose to fish plugs. I could fish eels, scup, bunker, shad, and even fluke every bit as well as anyone you know (I have the boat skills and knowledge and equipment to do so), and undoubtably I'd catch more large fish, but I reject the proposition that the size or number of fish one catches is the best measure of accomplishment. I think the obstacles overcome in making a catch are far more meaningful.

What gets my dander up is the suggestion that big fish do not fall to plugs. They obviously do, even if the level of difficulty at accomplishing it is beyond what you are interested in investing in fishing to get out of the sport what you want. To discourage others from trying is more self serving than helpful.

George, I chose to leave names out of this discussion to protect both the innocent and guilty.I was surprised you decided to go down that road to be honest.
As far as what makes YOU happy when fishing,that is also none of my business.Catching fish is not a matter of pride to me,only satisfaction,regardless of method.I have to say it is MY experience that eels provide more opportunities for BIG fish and a host of others seem to agree. Certainly,as I and others have stated already plugs can also yield impressive results so please get your danderuff down. As I type this I am making plans to go to Westport in my modest tin boat and plug this evening like the rest of the charlatan's. And I am hoping for a cow regardless.
People like yourself who consider themselves purists because of their preference in styles will continue to amuse me with their lack of respect for others accomplishments based solely on plugs vs. bait or shore vs. boat. Cosider yourself fortunate you are able to invest the time necessary to become a prolific angler with plugs but to show distain for those who use other tactics seems petty.I suggest a healthy respect for your fellow angler based entirely on your love of the sport. Something that we ALL seem to share.

[The Iceman 6]

It's all ballbearings nowadays, maye you guys need a refresher course?

[piemma]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

George, I chose to leave names out of this discussion to protect both the innocent and guilty.I was surprised you decided to go down that road to be honest.
As far as what makes YOU happy when fishing,that is also none of my business.Catching fish is not a matter of pride to me,only satisfaction,regardless of method.I have to say it is MY experience that eels provide more opportunities for BIG fish and a host of others seem to agree. Certainly,as I and others have stated already plugs can also yield impressive results so please get your danderuff down. As I type this I am making plans to go to Westport in my modest tin boat and plug this evening like the rest of the charlatan's. And I am hoping for a cow regardless.
People like yourself who consider themselves purists because of their preference in styles will continue to amuse me with their lack of respect for others accomplishments based solely on plugs vs. bait or shore vs. boat. Cosider yourself fortunate you are able to invest the time necessary to become a prolific angler with plugs but to show distain for those who use other tactics seems petty.I suggest a healthy respect for your fellow angler based entirely on your love of the sport. Something that we ALL seem to share.

Chris, I think you have made an excellent point and should be applauded for your honesty and convictions of sticking with what you believe.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

People like yourself who consider themselves purists because of their preference in styles will continue to amuse me with their lack of respect for others accomplishments based solely on plugs vs. bait or shore vs. boat. Cosider yourself fortunate you are able to invest the time necessary to become a prolific angler with plugs but to show distain for those who use other tactics seems petty.I suggest a healthy respect for your fellow angler based entirely on your love of the sport. Something that we ALL seem to share.

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned. I mistook your prophet Chris' word when he began his noble purpose by saying, "....... we know that without eels we stand a snowballs chance in hell of catching a trophy bass. Is there anyone who thinks they stand a legitimate chance for a trophy with jigs or plugs?.......", when in fact he clearly meant, " Certainly,as I and others have stated already plugs can also yield impressive results".... In my ignorance I compounded my sin by causing him to slander the names of those too holy to mention, and then challenging the holiest of commandments, "Thou shalt killest the mostest and biggest fish thoust can by any means that is most efficent, and displayest those fish for all to admire and give praise, soest thou might attain great fame and personal fortune and groweth bigger testicles than those other chumps, to help find thoust's #^&#^&#^&#^& as thy belly swells with the fruits of thy fortune". But thank you lord for thy mighty apostle, Chris, who has shown me the evil error of my petty purist ways and the smallness of my testicles. For pennance let me split asunder my flyrod over my wetsuit's knee, toss away to the currents my unholy wooden idols, and carry Back Beach's eel bucket all the days of my life, gaining sustance only from it's dregs once the night's work is done. And if I do, oh lord, please make this dandruff and distain (and Flap too if you don't mind) go away, so when I die I should be worthy to enter thy kingdom, Rhode Island.

Amen

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Let's see, Cinto got a 73 on a Plug, Stetzko a 73 on a teaser, McReynolds a 78 on a Rebel, and some guy in NC a 70 on a Mann's stretch. I think Iron Mike got a 60 on a needle, likewise Tony C a 60, likewise Tim Coleman a 60. Is your question limited only to the canal? Must be.

Stetzko had a live eel on--that 73 passed it up and hit the teaser that was a foot or two up the leader

K-man, Ditch Devil, fishdog and J Powers have hundreds of 30+ on jigs from the Canal.

I have a few myself.

I think you have a better shot at landing one with an eel. Better chance of the hook burying itself in a solid area of the fish (usually the roof of the mouth), you're hitting the fish closer to the surface, and not as far out, so the current effects are less. I've seen guys taken to their knees by fish with jigs.

Away from the Canal--yup, I'd stick with eels over the course of a season.