22 dead kids

[fishpoopoo]

thought you'd recognize that, bill.

[Jimbo]

We're looking at colleges now, so this situation is most disheartening as far as letting my teenager go too far away. But are there really folks out there who seriously think the threat will go away by arming the students? I'm wondering if that isn't a step backwards instead of making college campuses safer you're not turning them into Dodge City. I'm dealing with today's high school student right now, and while she's extremely intelligent, she is in no way, shape or manner anywhere near responsible enough to possess a gun, let alone have what it takes to use it, and have her glasses with her, and have the gun loaded and not in the bottom of her backpack in a situation where she might need to. She can't go a week without misplacing her glasses, driver's license, or cell phone and most of her friends are no better. There's got to be some other recourse than arming students and faculty, maybe something like sky marshalls dressed like students randomly walking around campus.

[fishpoopoo]

jimbo, nobody is saying your daughter HAS to carry a weapon.

Carrying a weapon lawfully carries a huge responsibility (as does driving a car lawfully).

It's not for everyone ... but the relatively few people who do (in VA we assume 1% of the population based on carry permit records, which are public...but maybe not for long) should be allowed to without hindrance.

Again, if you are uncomfortable with students carrying, can you argue with more mature folk like professors and employees and teaching assistants?

[Swimmer]

Did anyone notice how well all of the students spoke before the camera? How polite they were and even if they condemned/critisized someones job performance they were decent about it. VTech has a strong/large ROTC background and courses. The students seemed mature and had a good grasp of what had taken place.

One more thing, a gunmen bent on murder doesn't have his weapon holstered, its out and in the gunman's hand ready to perform. The law abiding citizen keeps his weapon holstered, probably with a saftey snap mechanism. If some pulls a gun on you you have no way of getting yours out to defend yourself. Any training states, distance first, then defense. Any officer who has survived a shooting will tell you he turned and ran first then while running drew his weapon. My point is how many college students are going to know what to do if faced with what the VTech students were faced with. How many without any real training would actually pull the trigger? I know people who are trained to pull the trigger that are incapable of doing so. I know that trainees in police academys when given thier weapons can't pull the trigger and were dismissed/fired.

The other point I can think of is suppose 20 of 30 students have weapons on them (most would be left in backpacks, which is an absurd thought, and not on there person) in a class. Someone comes into the room, gets the dropped on them and confiscates the 20 weapons from the carrying students. Now the gunman would have 22 weapons, not 2.

I know what you mean b-turbed but when this guy fires 27 rounds in under a minute in the first classroom thier is not much one can do. Stories of the heroic acts are starting to emerge. I am sure we will hear of students teachers who attempted to engage this puke and died.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Did anyone notice how well all of the students spoke before the camera? How polite they were and even if they condemned/critisized someones job performance they were decent about it. VTech has a strong/large ROTC background and courses. The students seemed mature and had a good grasp of what had taken place.

One more thing, a gunmen bent on murder doesn't have his weapon holstered, its out and in the gunman's hand ready to perform. The law abiding citizen keeps his weapon holstered, probably with a saftey snap mechanism. If some pulls a gun on you you have no way of getting yours out to defend yourself. Any training states, distance first, then defense. Any officer who has survived a shooting will tell you he turned and ran first then while running drew his weapon. My point is how many college students are going to know what to do if faced with what the VTech students were faced with. How many without any real training would actually pull the trigger? I know people who are trained to pull the trigger that are incapable of doing so. I know that trainees in police academys when given thier weapons can't pull the trigger and were dismissed/fired.

The other point I can think of is suppose 20 of 30 students have weapons on them (most would be left in backpacks, which is an absurd thought, and not on there person) in a class. Someone comes into the room, gets the dropped on them and confiscates the 20 weapons from the carrying students. Now the gunman would have 22 weapons, not 2.

I know what you mean b-turbed but when this guy fires 27 rounds in under a minute in the first classroom thier is not much one can do. Stories of the heroic acts are starting to emerge. I am sure we will hear of students teachers who attempted to engage this puke and died.

If one or more of those students and teachers had a gun and tried to use it would they have been any worse off? Even if they died anyway, they may have prevented the deaths of others. We teach people to be complacent in the face of threats, why didn't any of them try anything to defend themselves? Because they were taught not to! Never attack anyone! Christ they could have at least thrown a chair at him or at least tried to run away. A moving target is a lot harder to hit than one kneeling on the floor in front of you.

[Diamond Tackle]

I heard on the radio that there was a 60+ year old jewish teacher who either himself survived the Holocast, or his father did? im not sure exactly .but anyway, he was a teacher, and he barracaded himself & his students into his classroom and although bullets were flying through the door he stood his ground. He is a true hero, if this info is correct. Noone in his class supposedly was killed.
Another student who also supposedly barracaded the door, but that was after the shooter killed 15 already in that classroom & left.
just very sad.

[fishpoopoo]

yes, that prof had major balls and i salute him.

bitter irony, to have survived the holocaust and then be killed yesterday.