Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Today's Posts Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » The Scuppers

The Scuppers This is a new forum for the not necessarily fishing related topics...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-17-2007, 09:54 AM   #1
BigFish
BigFish Bait Co.
iTrader: (1)
 
BigFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hanover
Posts: 23,392
Send a message via AIM to BigFish
Everyone is so quick to judge the decisions made by authorities who were there and who had knowledge and who had to make the difficult decisions and those who are being critical......know nothing!!!! You think you know all there is to know based on news reports????? Jeeeeez.......everyone is so quick to talk about how things SHOULD have been done......hindsight is 20/20! Cut these folks a break for doing a difficult job.....I saw fear and confusion in their eyes on the news clips.....and I can't blame them! The killer is dead and still the witch hunt goes on!!!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
BigFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 10:01 AM   #2
kevin d
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 149
I could walk into any public place with a 9mm and a bunch of magazines and shoot a ton of people before anyone would have any idea how to stop me. I guarantee that the authorities and students alike had no idea that they were dealing with a mass murderer. I think the police response time was pretty damned good. The only place to point a finger is at the gunman.
kevin d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 10:11 AM   #3
fishpoopoo
Wipe My Bottom
iTrader: (0)
 
fishpoopoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,911
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin d View Post
I could walk into any public place with a 9mm and a bunch of magazines and shoot a ton of people before anyone would have any idea how to stop me. I guarantee that the authorities and students alike had no idea that they were dealing with a mass murderer. I think the police response time was pretty damned good. The only place to point a finger is at the gunman.
1. personally, i'd have a bead drawn on you after the hypothetical first shot.

2. post-columbine, the new LEO response to any gunman-on-campus is to take out the shooter asap (assume the shooter is out to inflict maximum casualties). i guess local LEO didn't have a clue on this, since they assumed the shooter left the scene.

fishpoopoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 10:14 AM   #4
fishpoopoo
Wipe My Bottom
iTrader: (0)
 
fishpoopoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,911
Exclamation

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.as...20020917a.html

Student Group Wants Campus Gun Ban Lifted
By Christine Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
September 17, 2002

(CNSNews.com) - After two armed southwest Virginia law students stopped a campus shooting rampage in January, a Second Amendment group at a northern Virginia law school decided it was time to change their own school's ban on guns.

"We are trying to build a detailed and persuasive brief that would include statistics on increases in safety, decreases in violent crime when you do have concealed carry permit holders in a jurisdiction," said Orest J. Jowyk, president of the Second Amendment group at George Mason University School of Law.

"I think the middle ground is to allow concealed handgun permit holders to carry just like they can anywhere else in Virginia," he said. "You provide extra safety to the student body that way."

Jowyk began researching his law school's gun policy following the January incident in which a disgruntled student at Appalachian Law School, Peter Odighizuwa, allegedly shot and killed the school's dean, a professor and a student on campus before being subdued by two armed students, Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges.

Gross and Bridges reportedly ran to their cars to fetch their own guns and returned to confront Odighizuwa, who surrendered after allegedly initiating a fistfight.


Jowyk was heartened by the students' intervention. But looking into GMU's gun policy, Jowyk found to his dismay that the school's board of visitors had in 1995 passed a ban on all weapons, concealed or otherwise, except by law enforcement officials.

Anyone who violates the school's gun ban would face administrative repercussions but not criminal charges, according to Jowyk.

Then in April, Virginia's Democratic governor, Mark Warner, signed a law prohibiting local governments from using administrative rules to pass gun restrictions that go beyond existing state law.

Jowyk's Second Amendment group is now investigating how that law might apply to GMU, though the group has not yet approached school administrators about changing the policy.

"There is a question that's being bandied about in the Commonwealth whether or not this university qualifies under that law as a locality," said Mike Lynch, chief of police for GMU law school's police department. "Today, I don't think we have the answer."

If that legal question is eventually resolved in the school's favor, Lynch says he will likely recommend that the weapons ban continue.

"The more people that have guns...on them, it is my opinion that that would increase the propensity for somebody getting hurt," either through accident or mischief, said Lynch. "And I don't want to see that."

But the controversy surrounding gun bans on state colleges and universities isn't limited to Virginia.

In January, the Utah legislature launched an inquiry into the University of Utah's 25-year-old gun ban after state Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said state laws on concealed weapons prohibited agencies and schools from banning them from state property.

"We need to have the right to exclude weapons on campus," University of Utah President Bernie Machen testified to legislators, describing the decision as a matter of academic freedom. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," he said. Machen has also argued that the ban fosters a safe learning environment.

On March 6, the Utah Senate passed a GOP-sponsored bill allowing the legislature to cut in half the school's administration budget if the gun ban continues. The university responded two weeks later by initiating a court challenge, asking a U.S. District Court judge to uphold the school's gun ban.

Also in March, Ohio University's 2000 "workforce violence policy" prohibiting any carrying or displaying of weapons became the subject of controversy when a journalism professor was directed to remove a Civil War-era gun he had displayed on his wall for more than a decade. University administrators reportedly are re-evaluating the policy.

"I feel like I've really been fingered as a dangerous person," Patrick Washburn told the University Wire.

fishpoopoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 10:32 AM   #5
mosholu
Mosholu
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 440
it would be interested to know what was the status of the bomb threat investigations and whether there is a connection. I was quite surprised yesterday how quick the media (Fox and CNN) had adopted the view that the school officials may be at fault. When there is anything to report they have a tendency to shoot from the hip. I do not think it would have been practical given what they knew at the time to shut the entire campus down. I am really skeptical that there are communication systems whether by email or texting given the time constraints that could have effectively notified the entire campus.
I feel bad for these school officials and the campus police as they must be going through hell.
mosholu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 11:05 AM   #6
MakoMike
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
MakoMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 5,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosholu View Post
I do not think it would have been practical given what they knew at the time to shut the entire campus down. I am really skeptical that there are communication systems whether by email or texting given the time constraints that could have effectively notified the entire campus.
I feel bad for these school officials and the campus police as they must be going through hell.
You don't think it would have practical to let everyone know that they had a murder potentially on campus? The campus cops could have closed the buildings and, at least, cut down on the number of people he encountered.

****MakoMike****

Http://www.Makomania.net

Official S-B Sponsor
MakoMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 11:43 AM   #7
mosholu
Mosholu
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoMike View Post
You don't think it would have practical to let everyone know that they had a murder potentially on campus? The campus cops could have closed the buildings and, at least, cut down on the number of people he encountered.
Part of me agrees with you. Practical was probably the wrong choice of words, effective is what I was going for. In hindsight an hour and a half seems like forever but I am sure for the people on the scene time was moving pretty quickly as they tried to establish who was the suspect and where he might be going.
mosholu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 10:28 AM   #8
kevin d
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassturbed View Post
1. personally, i'd have a bead drawn on you after the hypothetical first shot.
That is a good thing but apparently 32 people were not willing or able to do just that. I feel for the families.
kevin d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2007, 10:31 AM   #9
FishermanTim
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
FishermanTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hyde Park, MA
Posts: 4,152
This should have everyone concerned.
A little over a week and a half ago a kid brings a loaded weapon into school. He claims he "found the gun" on the way to school.
That isn't the only concen I'd have. The other concern is that the school "officers" do not carry any weapons, so that if something like that were to happen in most schools in New England, the best you could hope for is that the school officer would b able to handcuff the shooter after he either is wounded when the real police show up, or when he runs out of ammo.
No offense to the school officers, since they have been pretty much stripped of any means of protection and are thrown into a lion's den with a steak tied around their necks.

Since this thing can and will happen without warning, the emphasis should be placed on response: Take out the shooter ASAP!

What really upsets me is that these types of mental defectives believe they have the right and the power to commit these atrocious crimes, and result to suicide when they are about to be caught.
Why couldn't he just take care of himself instead of ruining all those families?
You can't tell me that someone wasn't even slightly aware that this freak was heading over the edge!
FishermanTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com