Hearing on Race Point Beach Closures

[Back Beach]

Personally, I don't have the time, energy, or interest to fish there any more for reasons already enumerated(primarily time, though). As far as there being no fish there, that's b.s. That area is highly cyclical with regard to the surf fishing.Someone said 2007 could be the year and I agree. It may not be the year, either. When the surf was bad, we used boats and always found big numbers of fish out there.Why they don't eat the beach is beyond me, but if you keep at the place, you will get your rewards. When? I don't know.
The pressure to close the place down has been constant since the late 70's, its nothing new, either.The antis seem to be winning the war though, unfortunately.The guys who show up at these meetings to preserve our access deserve much credit.They are the primary reason we have any access at all right now, little as it is.I would guess with time the deep pockets will win out.Not sure if a little sticker revenue will change people's minds.I forget the breakdown, but the sticker revenues offset only a portion of the operating expenses. Its cheaper to shut everything down than keep it open, last time I checked. That's what we are up against. 3000? or so permits times $165=$495,000. Don't know the expenses, but they would have to be more than 1 million.Either way the place probably runs at a loss.Someone chime in if you have the actuals and correct me if I'm way off.

[Karl F]

Not trying to recreate the mess we had up there a few years ago, but, sticker sales are important, lack of sales to those in charge = lack of interest.
A clear example of this, in my town, this year, they saw a drop in the # of permits for Nauset Beach, and a drop the year prior... they are already factoring running the town without the revenue from the sticker sales, diminishing it to 0 income , projected out over the next 3-5 fiscal years, and some of the bean counters that run this town, are already saying what a savings it would be to the town to not have it, personel, (pay and bennies etc.) equipment, ( depreciation and maintenence etc.), etc. ... they even talk of it like it would be a Good Thing!.. I am sure the Park Service bean counters would look at a diminished sticker income the same way.
Buying a sticker, while it doesn't have the same bang for the buck it once did, is still a way, of telling those in charge, to Keep It Open!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Not trying to recreate the mess we had up there a few years ago, but, sticker sales are important, lack of sales to those in charge = lack of interest.
A clear example of this, in my town, this year, they saw a drop in the # of permits for Nauset Beach, and a drop the year prior... they are already factoring running the town without the revenue from the sticker sales, diminishing it to 0 income , projected out over the next 3-5 fiscal years, and some of the bean counters that run this town, are already saying what a savings it would be to the town to not have it, personel, (pay and bennies etc.) equipment, ( depreciation and maintenence etc.), etc. ... they even talk of it like it would be a Good Thing!.. I am sure the Park Service bean counters would look at a diminished sticker income the same way.
Buying a sticker, while it doesn't have the same bang for the buck it once did, is still a way, of telling those in charge, to Keep It Open!

Hey Karl - hypothetically speaking of course, how much would that sticker run and what kind of access would a non-resident such as myself get?

It might be worth a couple stickers to maintain "interest". Investment sort of...

[Karl F]

2006 sticker for non residents was 180 bucks (ouch!)

http://www.town.orleans.ma.us/pdf/de.../orvinfo06.pdf

Access, depending on bird closures, etc., would be from main lot--> south, almost all the way to Chatham inlet, (fenced, but you can park and walk to it).. almost all the front beach, and access to some Pleasant Bay beaches, a little over 8.5 miles usually, from main lot to the last fence. Spring and Fall best for access, and fishing usually. (the only advantage of a Resident sticker in the access north to Nauset Inlet (approx 2.5 miles).. but that usually closes from Memorial Day to July 4th.. sometimes longer)

Unlike The NPS, ya can take a cruise almost anytime during the winter months at Nauset, as they leave it open all year.. nice diversion on a Sunday afternoon in January or February.. (low tides best )

[Maloney]

I look at it this way:

Membership in Mass. Audubon : Family $ 50, Protector $ 150, per year
Conservation Law Foundation: Basic Membership $ 30, Century Club- $ 100 per year
Sierra Club: Regular $ 25, Contributing $ 150.

I have been a member of two of these organisations and I don't give a rats arse if anyone is going to bash me about it. They are WRONG on the beach access issue. Open up the whole Seashore to what it was because from what I have heard the whole closure thing has been a government mess up from day one, ie. poor managment ,shortsightedness, and an illegal closure to boot. If access groups had equal education and financial support as the anti groups back then, I am certain everything would NOT have gone down as it has. Now we are fighting back.

Anyway, some years I buy 3 stickers, and some, like last, it is one. Some years I paid for Race Point , Nauset, and Sandy Neck and only saw Sandy Neck, twice, with the wife and kids, in the daytime. I think we have to put our money where it talks. These groups- and they do good work most of the time- have hundreds of thousands of members.We have how many men and women who are here now and will be here should OSV travel become just anyother fad?

Don't get NEGATIVE. It is the National Seashore which has to operated under certain rules. We have a documented legal and historic right to oversand access. All we need is a George Soros and his money on our side and the tune will play differently.

[Karl F]

Back Beah, where did you get your info.. last time I checked they were worried they would make money at the Seashore, (which, they cannot, by Law, at best they can break even, being a Federal agency, it is better for them if they run at a deficit.. so they can get more Fed $ the next fiscal year).

Nauset is still turning a "profit" for the town's general fund, even with diminished sticker sales.. the Park Dept. still has to fight the fin-com for their money, even tho, they are the dept. that generates that revenue.

Could it be just that a town runs a beach more effecient than the Fed's do?
That wouldn't be too hard to believe

Maloney .. someone will be hitting you up for a donation to the Legal Fund to offset your other donations

[Karl F]

Steve, I think that the powers that be here are counting on the Pochet washover being the determing factor as when to pull the plug on the south side.. they have already stated that they will keep the north open, forever..

The truly sad part is, the boards in Orleans and Chatham are too busy playing Hatfield and MacKoy to truly come to a workable solution.
Also the board in my town, is truly Clueless, regarding the beach...

[tattoobob]

No mater what happens I will be buying my stickers this year, The race point light house was closed for over 6 weeks in prime season, this is a loss of about $500.00 a day, they took a huge hit.

I use my permits in the spring and fall, I don't go in the daytime so, and this year most nights I would see no one other truck out there from long nook to race north. In the daylight hours it is bumper to bumper. It seems to me that it is turning into a beach goers SUV place to go. fishing doesn't seem to be the main reason to be there anymore

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Steve, I think that the powers that be here are counting on the Pochet washover being the determing factor as when to pull the plug on the south side.. they have already stated that they will keep the north open, forever..

The truly sad part is, the boards in Orleans and Chatham are too busy playing Hatfield and MacKoy to truly come to a workable solution.
Also the board in my town, is truly Clueless, regarding the beach...

That is where the Feds will step in if'n yer two towns don't git to seein I to I. ( The Goosey Goose had a nice holiday spread yesterday)

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Back Beah, where did you get your info.. last time I checked they were worried they would make money at the Seashore, (which, they cannot, by Law, at best they can break even, being a Federal agency, it is better for them if they run at a deficit.. so they can get more Fed $ the next fiscal year).

Karl,

I'm estimating the sticker income for CCNS stickers based on their cost and # of stickers. As for expenses, I don't know what it costs to run the OSV portion of the park, but would guess it is significantly greater than sticker revenue.Not sure if they break it out that way so anyone could interpret it and make an informed argument pro/con.

The more I read and hear this stuff, the more I love Rhody......

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Not trying to recreate the mess we had up there a few years ago, but, sticker sales are important, lack of sales to those in charge = lack of interest.
A clear example of this, in my town, this year, they saw a drop in the # of permits for Nauset Beach, and a drop the year prior... they are already factoring running the town without the revenue from the sticker sales, diminishing it to 0 income , projected out over the next 3-5 fiscal years, and some of the bean counters that run this town, are already saying what a savings it would be to the town to not have it, personel, (pay and bennies etc.) equipment, ( depreciation and maintenence etc.), etc. ... they even talk of it like it would be a Good Thing!.. I am sure the Park Service bean counters would look at a diminished sticker income the same way.
Buying a sticker, while it doesn't have the same bang for the buck it once did, is still a way, of telling those in charge, to Keep It Open!

One thing you must remember Karl is that if Orleans/Chatham decide to fold on the running of Nauset (what's left) they would by agreement turn it over to actually has the final say on your beach that being the federal government and guess who? The National Park Service as Nauset beach is in fact part of the Cape Cod National Seashore. I have no idea what would happen then but most likely they would somehow keep it open and a. The CCNS ORV sticker would cover Nauset as well and b. the resident only north beach thing would go the way of the dinosoaur as it would be seen as discriminating as the park actually belongs to all US citizens, so your happy hunting ground to Nauset inlet would be open for business to all comers and this would of course be helpfull in the CCNS/NPS fight for control over south beach/south Monomoy. The dune camps might be better protected than they are now as they are actaully on Federal Land would be retained as historical landmarks and grandfathered use. Wow this might be a good thing for non residents to get a waider range of beach for our 150.00 sticker but suck for you townies as your sticker cost would go up and your resi beach would be open for all. Hmmmm...........