bush's speach...

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by JohnR

And many of these programs (and others) have now been cur significantly or eliminated all together for 2005 and 2006 and proposed for 2007.

The Kings invisible clothes

[sokinwet]

What I find truly encouraging is that 4 years ago you would never find a negative word about GB on any fishing or hunting forum as sportsmen tend to be a conservative group. Perhaps people are finally seeing through the spin and hype to look at the substance.

[spence]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

What I find truly encouraging is that 4 years ago you would never find a negative word about GB on any fishing or hunting forum as sportsmen tend to be a conservative group. Perhaps people are finally seeing through the spin and hype to look at the substance.

That's because most genuine people are willing to accept that performance and honesty are simply more important than idiology in the end...

-spence

[mekcotuit]

Originally Posted by spence

That's because most genuine people are willing to accept that performance and honesty are simply more important than idiology in the end...

-spence

Spence ! - a new Bushie adjective = idiology:derived from idiot...

[spence]

Originally Posted by mekcotuit

Spence ! - a new Bushie adjective = idiology:derived from idiot...

Must have been a Froidian slip

-spence

[NaCl H2O]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

What I find truly encouraging is that 4 years ago you would never find a negative word about GB on any fishing or hunting forum as sportsmen tend to be a conservative group. Perhaps people are finally seeing through the spin and hype to look at the substance.

Are you one of the ones that have changed their opinion of the president over the period of his time in office, or have you always disliked him? I suspect the latter. Bush's detractors have always been there. After 6 years of unrelentless hammering by the press I can see why you and your ilk feel emboldened to speak out now.

[spence]

Originally Posted by NaCl H2O

After 6 years of unrelentless hammering by the press I can see why you and your ilk feel emboldened to speak out now.

Hmmmm...

From 2001-2003 the press was Bush's lapdog, simply restating Administration positions as fact...

Since they have reported on the Administrations massive policy blunders...and Bush's %$%$%$%$ does indeed stink.

I seem to remember Clinton being hammered as well, and most of it was due to fabricated scandals...some he certainly did deserve.

So what exactly is the problem again? The press laying down and taking it on the run up to Iraq? Because other than that they've been doing their job...I'd argue not enough!

-spence

[sokinwet]

NACL H20 - I pride myself on being an independent thinker and don't jump on anyones bandwagon without thorough examination of positions. On one side I am a hunter and gun owner, I have lost job opportunities to affirmative action and I deplore the attitude that we should be appoligists for the past and advocates for every fringe group, which puts me at odd's with many in the Democratic party. On the other end of the spectrum I am an environmenalist and I see the republicans as anti environment; I work in the housing field and have seen the republican administration throw the middle class under the bus when it comes to it's housing policies; I am not a religious person and I see the republicans pandering to religious conservatives; I am a parent who has seen the administration slash college financial aid while pushing for corporate and capital gains tax reductions; I have seen billions go to Iraq while our own cities suffer; I have seen oil companies make record profits while I suffer to fill the tank in my boat; I have seen the administrative take unprecedented actions in their secrecy and refusal to participate in the checks and balances of government; I have seen the administration controlled by neo-cons who have used current events to push the doctrines of the PNAC. And you're right , I have never been a GB supporter and have never been afraid to speak my opinion for 55 years. I'll paraphrase Regan by asking you "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? By the way is that your picture in your avatar?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

NACL H20 - I pride myself on being an independent thinker and don't jump on anyones bandwagon without thorough examination of positions. On one side I am a hunter and gun owner, I have lost job opportunities to affirmative action and I deplore the attitude that we should be appoligists for the past and advocates for every fringe group, which puts me at odd's with many in the Democratic party. On the other end of the spectrum I am an environmenalist and I see the republicans as anti environment; I work in the housing field and have seen the republican administration throw the middle class under the bus when it comes to it's housing policies; I am not a religious person and I see the republicans pandering to religious conservatives; I am a parent who has seen the administration slash college financial aid while pushing for corporate and capital gains tax reductions; I have seen billions go to Iraq while our own cities suffer; I have seen oil companies make record profits while I suffer to fill the tank in my boat; I have seen the administrative take unprecedented actions in their secrecy and refusal to participate in the checks and balances of government; I have seen the administration controlled by neo-cons who have used current events to push the doctrines of the PNAC. And your right , I have never been a GB supporter and have never been afraid to speak my opinion for 55 years. I'll paraphrase Regan by asking you "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? By the way is that your picture in your avatar?

good post

[zimmy]

It's the presses fault My bushy friends won't even talk about the discussions we had 4 or 5 year ago. Truth hurts. Better hope this middle east democracy business works out. Anyone who could look beyond 3 months could see that it was a awfully risky proposal, including C. Powell, and many top ranking military tops. But one thing the pres is good at is silencing dissentors. Gotta give him that. Glad he dumbs it down for me, but I still don't know "ecalectic" means.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

NACL H20 - I pride myself on being an independent thinker and don't jump on anyones bandwagon without thorough examination of positions. On one side I am a hunter and gun owner, I have lost job opportunities to affirmative action and I deplore the attitude that we should be appoligists for the past and advocates for every fringe group, which puts me at odd's with many in the Democratic party. On the other end of the spectrum I am an environmenalist and I see the republicans as anti environment; I work in the housing field and have seen the republican administration throw the middle class under the bus when it comes to it's housing policies; I am not a religious person and I see the republicans pandering to religious conservatives; I am a parent who has seen the administration slash college financial aid while pushing for corporate and capital gains tax reductions; I have seen billions go to Iraq while our own cities suffer; I have seen oil companies make record profits while I suffer to fill the tank in my boat; I have seen the administrative take unprecedented actions in their secrecy and refusal to participate in the checks and balances of government; I have seen the administration controlled by neo-cons who have used current events to push the doctrines of the PNAC. And you're right , I have never been a GB supporter and have never been afraid to speak my opinion for 55 years. I'll paraphrase Regan by asking you "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? By the way is that your picture in your avatar?

I gotta Agree too....that is a great post

[NaCl H2O]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

I'll paraphrase Regan by asking you "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? By the way is that your picture in your avatar?

Sokin... I wasn't debating the finer points of either political philosophy. I suspected that *most* of the folks posting anti-administration stuff haven't had their minds changed by this president's policies and have pretty much felt the same way about him and republicans all along. I could be wrong though. Carter put me off democrats for life. Am I better off?? Well I'm not dead and that's a pretty good start.

No, that's not my picture in the avatar. The show he was in was one of my favorites though. You're 55... yours too?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by sokinwet

NACL H20 - I pride myself on being an independent thinker and don't jump on anyones bandwagon without thorough examination of positions. On one side I am a hunter and gun owner, I have lost job opportunities to affirmative action and I deplore the attitude that we should be appoligists for the past and advocates for every fringe group, which puts me at odd's with many in the Democratic party. On the other end of the spectrum I am an environmenalist and I see the republicans as anti environment; I work in the housing field and have seen the republican administration throw the middle class under the bus when it comes to it's housing policies; I am not a religious person and I see the republicans pandering to religious conservatives; I am a parent who has seen the administration slash college financial aid while pushing for corporate and capital gains tax reductions; I have seen billions go to Iraq while our own cities suffer; I have seen oil companies make record profits while I suffer to fill the tank in my boat; I have seen the administrative take unprecedented actions in their secrecy and refusal to participate in the checks and balances of government; I have seen the administration controlled by neo-cons who have used current events to push the doctrines of the PNAC. And you're right , I have never been a GB supporter and have never been afraid to speak my opinion for 55 years. I'll paraphrase Regan by asking you "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? By the way is that your picture in your avatar?

I wasn’t going to jump in but…I have no self control. I’m a indepedndent conservative and defended and supported Bush that last 4 years or so. I was going to post that I have no faith in him and I’m very disappointed in his policies and ability to adapt to changing circumstances. He comes off as an idiot to me too. I am disheartened and pissed.

That said in response to the post above. Lets look at a few things that have happened (facts, not opinions) in the last 6 years.
1. the blow up of the largest stock market bubble in history (larger than the crash of the 30’s), crash of the dot coms
2. The largest attacks in history on American soil, killing more civilians than ever before, resulting in a disaster for the airline and travel industry as well as closing economic markets for days.
3. Scandal in some of Americas largest corporation, lowering confidence in the stock market and corp. americe. Who would have ever thought Arthur Anderson as an accounting firm would poof…disappear?
4. A new, smaller world, due to the information age, cell phones, digital cams, internet etc. More technology is available to the average person than NASA had 20 years ago. Who knew this would happen so fast, who knows what it will mean?

Taking all that in consideration,
The US economy is very strong, recovering from the market crash, recovering from the corporate scandal, recovering from terrorist attacks, and fear of terror. We have increased our security and put terrorists on the run. I am not saying its perfect, but it is progress. We have shaken the base of operations for terrorists globally. We had had NO terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11.

I don’t give necessarlily give Bush credit for any of this, but earth shattering things have happened in 6 years that no one could foresee. Taken all that into consideration, I think we are all pretty well off.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

He comes off as an idiot to me too. I am disheartened and pissed.

so what you are saying is Spence and I were right all along???

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

We have increased our security and put terrorists on the run. I am not saying its perfect, but it is progress. We have shaken the base of operations for terrorists globally. We had had NO terrorist attacks on US soil since 9/11.

What makes you think we're more secure?

The bi-partisan panel has given the Administration an F for their post 9/11 domestic security changes.

As for keeping us safe, our adventure in Iraq has killed nearly as many Americans that died on 9/11, and wounded 20,000 more...not to mention the hundreds of billions spent.

I won't dive into the incompetence and manipulation of the policy that's led us here...it makes me to freaking PO'd.

And regarding no attacks...read up on what the former CIA expert on Bin Laden has to say and it's not because we're so secure, it's that they are waiting for their time and place to upstage 9/11. Remember it was 8 years between attacks the last time.

-spence

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by NaCl H2O

Are you one of the ones that have changed their opinion of the president over the period of his time in office, or have you always disliked him? I suspect the latter. Bush's detractors have always been there. After 6 years of unrelentless hammering by the press I can see why you and your ilk feel emboldened to speak out now.

6 years of unrelentless hammering? Emboldened to speak out now?



Has anyone lost their jobs or public standings for speaking out? Our media is so curtailed. Life in a bubble eh?

[NaCl H2O]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Life in a bubble eh?

Not really. Press and the libs have been slowly crawling out from under their rocks as we put more time between us and 9/11.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by NaCl H2O

Not really. Press and the libs have been slowly crawling out from under their rocks as we put more time between us and 9/11.

You bought the reality tv mega series?

Does`nt matter what party....libs or fascists

Anytime the machine senses there cometh a viable candidate the trash tv and twisted writings begins.... our entire system of politics is tainted and out of control.

I`m voting Amish for the only chance this planet has for recovery....but alas this will not happen.

[sokinwet]

NACL H20 - Ok, I'll admit it ..not only did I watch Davey Crockett but I used to wear a coonskin hat and sing along to the theme song while I did... Born on a mountaintop in Tenn. lived his life in the land of the free... Hey kinda goes along with this thread doesn't it!