Israel and World War Three

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Spence I'm sure you want to clarify that statement because it could lead one to assume that it is an attempt at legitmizing the targeting of unmarmed, innocent civilians. (They killed civilians by mistake so it's okay for us to kill them on purpose). Collateral damage which Israel is guilty of is bad enough without the purposeful intent of killing civilians which Hizbollah is guilty of. Thats probably why it's called Terrorism.

The statement is pretty clear...the point being, it's not like Palestenian non-militants are saying "well, my son did die while walking to school between checkpoints 7 and 8, but the Israelis were aiming those rockets at the terrorists down the street, so I guess it was just Allah's will"...

The Israelis are certainly guilty of dehumanizing the Palestenians in an effort to provide security, but let's be honest...also wear them down. Hence my comments about humiliation and rage.

I don't think they should shoulder the blame though, as I've stated previously, the problem is much larger than the two parties and will require a solution that's beyond both.

-spence

[Skitterpop]

Arab-Israeli wars

A day after the declaration of independence of the State of Israel, armies of five Arab countries, Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq, invaded Israel. This marked the beginning of the War of Independence. Arab states have jointly waged four full scale wars against Israel:

• 1948 War of Independence
• 1956 Sinai War
• 1967 Six Day War
• 1973 Yom Kippur War

Despite the numerical superiority of the Arab armies, Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Despite the numerical superiority of the Arab armies, Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

And what a few billion a year from the US can do for you.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by likwid

And what a few billion a year from the US can do for you.

Likwid.... no one supported them years ago except themselves and they survived and thrived

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Likwid.... no one supported them years ago except themselves and they survived and thrived

mmmmmmmmmmmm.....no

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by likwid

mmmmmmmmmmmm.....no

Wrong...back later

[spence]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Likwid.... no one supported them years ago except themselves and they survived and thrived

If my memory of the history is right, we didn't even provide much if any aid in the '47 war. Israel was able to defend herself just fine by smuggling arms through Eastern Europe, and fighting like hell.

Remember as well that a lot of the "billions" people talk about was part of a joint settlement with Egypt, and we have been throwing them money as well.

In a way I think we've done Israel a great disservice by protecting them from UN condemnation over the years...it's created a tremendous amount of animosity towards both the US and Israel, contributed greatly to 9/11 and has prevented, I believe, Israel from gaining needed legitimacy in the region.

Instead of being seen as strong when they indeed have been very strong, they are seen as a protected son who can do no wrong...

-spence

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Skitterpop

Likwid.... no one supported them years ago except themselves and they survived and thrived

Actually--before the demographics of France changed and it became about 20% Muslim, they got a lot of military aid from France. Their entire Air Force was made up of Mirages up until the 1967 war.

And in 1956, there is some pretty convincing evidence that both French and British fighter pilots flew clandestinely for the IDF.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Actually--before the demographics of France changed and it became about 20% Muslim, they got a lot of military aid from France. Their entire Air Force was made up of Mirages up until the 1967 war.

And in 1956, there is some pretty convincing evidence that both French and British fighter pilots flew clandestinely for the IDF.

The British actually fought against them in 48 and for some years afterward....they really did much on there own with brilliant strategy and underground training of the special night forces...and of course they had to import weapons but the UN turned their backs on them when they were faced with multi Arabic armies. Loads of $$$$$$$$$$ did`nt hurt either....but strategy was key and their heart.

[Mike P]

The Brits changed their tune when Nasser overthrew King Farouk of Egypt and started making noises about closing down the Suez Canal to British shipping, and nationalizing BP's oil wells. In fact, it was his shutting down the Suez Canal in the 1956 war that sparked the alleged clandestine British intervention. There are photographs and newsreel footage of Mirage fighter jets sporting strange cross-shaped markings, instead of the Star of David. That's what led to the speculation that they were being flown by British and French pilots and not Israelis.

[Skitterpop]

Oh my god....


BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- The Bush administration is waiving the requirement that Americans have to pay or reimburse the government for being evacuated from Lebanon, aides to two senators said.

[Swimmer]

I am sure the marines would look forward to being deployed in Beruit again Spence if we re-establish a working relationship with Lebonon.

[Swimmer]

Of those twenty-five thousand americans. Most were born in Lebanon and are naturalized here. A small portion are probably students at Amercian University there. The rest are people born in America that work there for banks and the cia and stuff.

[Skitterpop]

Hezbollah leader scoffs at Israeli offensive

Nasrallah: Militant group 'will deliver surprises that it promises'


Thursday, July 20, 2006; Posted: 6:49 p.m. EDT (22:49 GMT)