OTW "Striper Cup Tourney" Format is Irresponsible to the Fishery

[NIB]

Originally Posted by spence

I don't think anyone at OTW is thinking about killing bass...

They're just looking for a way to boost readership, without thinking of the masses who will be dragging in two 34" per week over the entire season thinking they just might have a shot.

It's not like this is a weekend event!

Tourney's are not evil, but times have changed since the 1950's OTW is trying to memorialize.

-spence

Well can u blame a magazine for tryin to boost readership.I love OTW I can't wait to get it.As i see most do here.It bridges the gap for me from Ne to NJ.I would hate to see it go.They are not unlike any other corporation in today's USA tryin to provide a service an stay afloat.
I think it was a nobel idea for OTW an Harpoon to revisit one of the great old tourney's of the past.I think they where genuine tryin to revive some of the great history behind the trophy.Do i think this tourney needs some tweeking To bring it up to modern times absolutely.It is a different world in striped bass fishing.Our club tourneys in NJ work off a similar format.Participaction is a joke.As some clubs don't even weigh in fish.Last yr I only weighed in a few myself.Some things people hold on to because of the history.Change doesn't always come so easy.Cursing an flaming gets nothing done.Instead of a bashing thread How bout some Real Idea's on how this can be done.Now remember u have to be able to invite back quite a few folks to the brewery for a party.It has to viable for both Harpoon OTW an Their sponsors.So how can they accomplish this.If u think about it it can be difficult.But a dogpile on the rabbit gets nothing done.Perhaps making it a big fish tourney is the only real way to limit great overall kills.Like fish over 30 lbs.It will get u enough in to fill a banquet hall an not absolutley pound the fisherey with 15 lb weighed in fish.The Fisherman Mag runs a very similar format for many species I never see anyone complain about that.The contest is already opened up. So it's gonna be tough to change it while it's under way.
That'll be the real challenge one the lawyers might not wanna touch.

[stiff tip]

NIB.... i could,nt say it better myself ...the other rag does the samething .in i have yet to see PETA at there front door ...some guys refuse to see a good intent ,and only see negativity..i dont think like that .. cause i,m 7 1/2yrs old ,,,and i,m a big boy.......dave...

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

.. cause i,m 7 1/2yrs old ,,,and i,m a big boy.......dave...

What the hell does this mean?

Did you find that album?

[Bedford Blues]

Fishing for Bass should not be made a competitive event.
the Stiper population is no where near the level of the 1950's
or 1960's and early 70's. i like OTW but this is a mistake.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Bedford Blues

Fishing for Bass should not be made a competitive event.
the Stiper population is no where near the level of the 1950's
or 1960's and early 70's. i like OTW but this is a mistake.

Yeah, your right about that. The current population is much higher than it was back then!

[BigFish]

Fishing for bass is and has been a competitive event for some time! All the clubs have a club derby to my knowledge...MSBA, RISSA, MBBA, Plum Island to name a few.......all require fish be weighed and measured on certified scales....no catch and release there! How many of you nay sayers fish your club derbies? Explain to me the difference one from the other?

[Krispy]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Explain to me the difference one from the other?

Cumulative year-long poundage. Whichever club kills the most fish wins.
DZ made a great suggestion in having clubs only submit the top 7 or 5 or 3 fish, that way anything not meeting the mark doesnt need to be killed.
I would really like to fish this tournament, but have reservations with the club fish kill, and the early ending time frame
Actually, re-reading the rules, I'll probly just enter as an individual. I interested in seeing what others "sharpies" are actually catching in the surf

[Saltheart]

I think we want to stay focused on the impact to the fishery. I don't want this thread turning into a "we hate OTW thread". I think its a fine Magazine that hasn't thought the format through well in terms of being conservation minded.

I would suggest that all the club stuff is fine and the individual stuff is all exciting and both should increase overall interest which is good. . Just figure out a way to keep score without needing people to kill so many fish.

I think something like a max entry of 5 fish per person over the whole tournament. You might even further say 1 per month for a total of five , that would rteduce the kill even further but might be squeezing the fun part too much

I'm sure there are lots of other ideas . Keep the posts about the potential fish kill and what to do about it , and give the magazine people a break.

[BigFish]

I will be looking for that one nice fish per month......I catch alot of fish but don't lay claim to being a cow killer/catcher......I will be lucky to catch anything worth weighing in knowing full well it will take a fish over 50 pounds to compete overall anyway....so I don't see my catch and kill habit changing in the least......I only keep 2 or 3 fish anyway all season.....and I won't keep a fish to tally overall points anyway as I don't really care for that type of thing. I will be keeping that one nice fish if I am fortunate enough but otherwise I will keep only a couple for the table. I enjoy the camraderie with my fellow fishermen.....this can be a fun event if we treat it right!

[Raven]

bigfish.... you have learned the true essence of fishing.

[Swimmer]

that most of us only dream about catching a 30 #, 40#, or a 50# FISH. Give OTW a chance at working out the kinks before your wedgie causes blood loss to the extremities.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

that most of us only dream about catching a 30 #, 40#, or a 50# FISH. .

If every fish over 15lbs HAD to be released, I think your dream would be alot more likely to come true. Killing the largest and most fertile members of a species is not the way you make more large fish. Ensuring that smaller fish have more chance to breed, creates a smaller strain of fish. Ensuring the least efficent breeders breed, creates less fish. Why is that so hard for recreational fisherman to understand?

[spence]

Guys, I think you took my statement the wrong way. I'm not blaming OTW for beeing greedy, just perhaps shortsighted...

-spence

[piemma]

I believe there was no ill intent on the part of OTW. They just didn't think the whole thing through. I have written to Chris in the past an gotten replies that may not have agreed with me but were his opinion, which is fine. Send him emails or write or call and let your feeling about the tournament be heard. i think they will respond. They don't want a war with their readers.
Let's let calmer heads prevail.

[JoeP]

Originally Posted by piemma

I believe there was no ill intent on the part of OTW. They just didn't think the whole thing through. I have written to Chris in the past an gotten replies that may not have agreed with me but were his opinion, which is fine. Send him emails or write or call and let your feeling about the tournament be heard. i think they will respond. They don't want a war with their readers.
Let's let calmer heads prevail.

I never received a response to my 2 e-mails from last year's "OTW" controversial issue.

[shadow]

there not going to answer every e-mail sent espesaly if there geting flooded with hundreds on the the same issue.As far as the tournament goes NIB said it best,I love the idea they just need to change the rules so less fish are killed.

[Rip Runner]

The only thing I can't figure out is that the OTW folks don't want people to send in any pictures of fish that have been taken/killed. They only want pictures of fish that are alive and look like they will be released. I understand this and the reason that they only want pictures in their magazine that look healthy for the fishery and the sport. But now they sponsor a kill tournament?

The folks that run OTW are good guys, so I'm sure they can make some changes to the tourney before it begins.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Strike_King

My concern would be with the yahoos and weekend warriors that read the magazine.The ones that have no clue about C+R,conservation,etc.The ones that can't even tie a knot. .

You mean the ones that stretch a tape measure every which way from Sunday over a 28 -1/1000" fish? And keep two rats a fraction of an inch over the limit?

Look at the bright side--if they enter, they'll at least be keeping two fish that probably already had a chance to spawn once. Maybe they'll actually start releasing anything under 34".

[Mr. Sandman]

I think the entire C&R thing has gone too far. It is not doing anyone any good not even the fish. It is time to bring back catch and keep. According to many "scientific" articles all the fish you release just die anyany so you may as well keep them.

If we don't takem the comm guys will...take all you can while the going is good.

BTW, the 1980s was the best bass fishing in history!!! More large fish were caught then (including several state and world records) then any time in history.

According to official numbers we have too many bass anyway and nothing is in danger because of the fantastic job that the marine fisher depart's do. Go get em! Worry about any problems later.

[King Neptune]

Mass, RI & CT regulations clearly state that anglers are allowed 2 fish at 28” per angler per day. That’s 14 fish per week. If someone really wanted to, they can keep over 300 bass a season. Does anyone keep that many fish? No. But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.
In my opinion, harvesting fish can be good for a species. Many fisheries encourage keeping fish, and if regulated properly, leads to a healthier population.
Take a look at deer hunting. Overpopulation leads to malnourished deer that can’t survive the winter. Hunting leads to bigger, healthier deer.
Weighing in 2 fish a week over an 18 week tournament will not make stripers extinct. Just as we are all allowed to keep 14 fish a week, no one really does, and I don’t think there will be many people weighing in 2 fish every week in this tournament, just to win a trophy. I think the two fish-per-week rule is a good limit, and is far more conservation-minded than many other tournaments (take a look at the MV derby). Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by King Neptune

Mass, RI & CT regulations clearly state that anglers are allowed 2 fish at 28” per angler per day. That’s 14 fish per week. If someone really wanted to, they can keep over 300 bass a season. Does anyone keep that many fish? No. But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.

Yes the regulations clearly state that BUT assuming if everyone were able to catch and then to take 2 legal fish per day / 14 per week, there would be a SIGNIFICANT impact on the fishery.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the state allocations are based on perceived pressure as there are not landing receipts from every angler on every trip to give hard numbers. So they use their estimates from their dosckside / shoreside studies and guestimate a total catch and compare that to what they feel the biomass can manage and be sustainable. A couple years ago they might say to Mass DMF that they can allocatate for grins and giggles 1 million pounds of bass and Mass then would need to come up with regulations to meet that target. For years Mass had 1 fish @ 28 inches and based on the numbers available at the time, Mass had an uncaught balance of about 14% under the quota. So Mass for example could have added 2 fish @ 28 for say 3 months of the season as they felt that would use the last 14% of their allowable quota. When Mass went to 2 @ 28 they felt the chances of one person keeping the second fish was significantly less than keeping the first. And they assigned some number like 10% of trips would catch a keeper in the first place...

Sorry for the ramble but 2 fish per day per angler for 7 days a week for the entire season would really harm the fishery.

[NIB]

[QUOTE=JohnR].

Correct me if I'm wrong but the state allocations are based on perceived pressure as there are not landing receipts from every angler on every trip to give hard numbers. So they use their estimates from their dosckside / shoreside studies and guestimate a total catch and compare that to what they feel the biomass can manage and be sustainable. QUOTE]


We call this Vodoo math.Every yr.in Vodoo math they are able to minipulate the numbers in order to give us the the Maximun sustainable yield.In nj we where able to go back to 2 fish because of a .01 percent difference in Vodoo math.Although i see more bigger fish today i think the past few yrs the fisherey has gotten worse.Its hard to support a tourney that promotes a 2 per week kill totals.

Sorry, I love tourneys and The pins could mean something to someone when I'm long gone (probably not but u never know)but at 2 per week for 16 weeks its tough.on the individual side I think someone could easily do 32-20 lbers as a average.Thats 640lbs.That could be a conservitive amount.take a small number in a NE tournament like 100 anglers,say they average 500 lbs.Thats just the individual end.when u add in clubs an do the math across it adds up quick.Will it make a difference in the 9 million taken in Mass according to the vodoo math.Who can say for sure.Its just not the type of thing I feel I should be supporting.The downside is not a option for me striper fishing is my life.I agree the tournament needs a numbers limit, DZ suggested 3 for the clubs.U could do the same for the individual i think That limits the lottery.It is for the grand prize part a lottery anyways.Perhaps top 5 would'nt hurt either clubs an individual..I thought the old tourney had some kinda numbers limit for the clubs like top 10.??
I think ball type lottery thing for inividual would be most fair.Like the NBA Draft lottery #1 angler gets 10 balls an #2 gets 9 an so on.Some simple minds are thinkin what about ties an so on.U don't have to use balls. It can be done with a computer to work out the finer calculations of a multiple entries format.More than just weigh one in over 35 lbs an get a chance to win.This method rewards the top angler with the best chance.If I weigh in 8- 30's why should someone who gets one have the same chance.thats the way it is as far as I see it.
They more than likely won't make any changes this yr.Guess I will have to wait till next yr

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Yes the regulations clearly state that BUT assuming if everyone were able to catch and then to take 2 legal fish per day / 14 per week, there would be a SIGNIFICANT impact on the fishery.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the state allocations are based on perceived pressure as there are not landing receipts from every angler on every trip to give hard numbers. So they use their estimates from their dosckside / shoreside studies and guestimate a total catch and compare that to what they feel the biomass can manage and be sustainable. A couple years ago they might say to Mass DMF that they can allocatate for grins and giggles 1 million pounds of bass and Mass then would need to come up with regulations to meet that target. For years Mass had 1 fish @ 28 inches and based on the numbers available at the time, Mass had an uncaught balance of about 14% under the quota. So Mass for example could have added 2 fish @ 28 for say 3 months of the season as they felt that would use the last 14% of their allowable quota. When Mass went to 2 @ 28 they felt the chances of one person keeping the second fish was significantly less than keeping the first. And they assigned some number like 10% of trips would catch a keeper in the first place...

Sorry for the ramble but 2 fish per day per angler for 7 days a week for the entire season would really harm the fishery.

John,
Not quite right. Striped bass is managed on a coastwide basis, i.e. there is no allocation of the quota to any individual state. ASMFC sets the maximum creel limit, all states have the option to use a more restrictive limit. But your main point is correct, in that effort is factored into the equasion and if all fishermen went out and killed two fish a day, it would have a severe detrimental impact on the fishery.

[spence]

Originally Posted by King Neptune

But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.

I'd wager there's simply no way this could be true. The difference in scale is so huge the formula must be weighted to compensate.

Originally Posted by King Neptune

Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

I think this sums up the entire thread pretty well.

-spence

[beamie]

Originally Posted by King Neptune

Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

Unfortunately, since there are big prizes involved that 50 pounder will go imediately on ice until the next week when it can be weighed.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by beamie

Unfortunately, since there are big prizes involved that 50 pounder will go imediately on ice until the next week when it can be weighed.

Welcome to the land of tournaments.

[stiff tip]

Originally Posted by Indanite

What the hell does this mean?

Did you find that album?

its a dig ...it was late last night ,and i was tired, nothing personal..but it sounds like a lot of crying ,over a good intent, as for otw,s mag ,the intent of the derby was to have a good time bass fishing derby not a petty pi$$ing contest ...the opinions good or bad will make to the office for considration trust me ,,DAVE

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by stiff tip

its a dig ...it was late last night ,and i was tired, nothing personal..but it sounds like a lot of crying ,over a good intent, as for otw,s mag ,the intent of the derby was to have a good time bass fishing derby not a petty pi$$ing contest ...the opinions good or bad will make to the office for considration trust me ,,DAVE

I`m with you here Dave. I was kidding ya back.
I`ve been reading your stuff for years. Been getting OTW ever since 1997 when I moved close to the ocean and starting surf fishing/salt fishing. I appreciate OTW and all your articles and experiences & knowledge you have shared. Missed your articles in the last few years and got used to seeing Steve mention you in his as one of his fishing buds.

Hope this all works out for you and OTW and the Stripers.

Mike

[inTHERAPY]

I have to agree with bigfish. I will sign up for the tourney and my fishing "kill" will not be different from last year. I am looking for big fish, I couldn't care less about a 30# or 40# pin. On the other hand, a 50# or 60# is another story. I think a lot of weekly weighers may be commercial fishers who are taking bass anyway. Anyway, I mentioned my concerns about the yearly #age totals to OTW at the nesaltwater show ( I hope you all did the same ) and look forward to the party.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

i can see the concern for the possible ill effects of the tournament on the stiped bass population, but i don't see the contest changing the way people keep fish or release them .the serious fisherman isn't going to keep fish just to weught them in unless it is a large fish. that they would probably keep anyways. the average joe who might weigh in a 34 inch probably won't catch 2 a week anyways and if he did he would keep them anyways.