OTW "Striper Cup Tourney" Format is Irresponsible to the Fishery - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

spence · 04-01-2006, 09:12 PM

I don't think anyone at OTW is thinking about killing bass...

They're just looking for a way to boost readership, without thinking of the masses who will be dragging in two 34" per week over the entire season thinking they just might have a shot.

It's not like this is a weekend event!

Tourney's are not evil, but times have changed since the 1950's OTW is trying to memorialize.

-spence

Skitterpop · 04-01-2006, 09:30 PM

Ok...................................... so 467 people enter. If 300 of them catch and kill 5 bass each over 35#....1500 dead breeding females.

If 1021 people enter and 751 of them catch and kill 10 bass each over 25# ....7,510 dead breeding females.

(most but not all would necessarily be females)

Maybe if the minimum size limit was 45# and you could only kill and report 3 max.......893 entered 142 accomplished this...thats still 426 dead females who could breed again.

I`m tired and not making any sense....anyone have any ideas how this might work without killing too many Striped Bass?

stiff tip · 04-01-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

I don't think anyone at OTW is thinking about killing bass...

They're just looking for a way to boost readership, without thinking of the masses who will be dragging in two 34" per week over the entire season thinking they just might have a shot.

It's not like this is a weekend event!

Tourney's are not evil, but times have changed since the 1950's OTW is trying to memorialize.

-spence

spence with all new derbys there is got to be a start ...our own constiatution was written buy men that did,nt all agree but talked an reasoned thinks out ...the otw people want to work with you fisher people,,they did not put up a ton of money ,and drag the sponsors into a pi$$in match ,,,,as for proffit so far i,ve seen more doe go out than come in ...do they sell more mags i hope so ..guys its a good home town mag w/ a good intent,give it a chance stay w/ a open mind ????? p. s. i,ve seen many of 1000 s of pounds of bass throne over board on the gill net boats and dragers ,as useless by -catch off chatham ...now that makes me sick....i like one fish a week ,, the rules can change ..but w/o your imput and patiance it cant happen?????if it aint good e-nuff for you i,m sorryi hurt your feel goods,,,,,dave

NIB · 04-01-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence

I don't think anyone at OTW is thinking about killing bass...

They're just looking for a way to boost readership, without thinking of the masses who will be dragging in two 34" per week over the entire season thinking they just might have a shot.

It's not like this is a weekend event!

Tourney's are not evil, but times have changed since the 1950's OTW is trying to memorialize.

-spence

Well can u blame a magazine for tryin to boost readership.I love OTW I can't wait to get it.As i see most do here.It bridges the gap for me from Ne to NJ.I would hate to see it go.They are not unlike any other corporation in today's USA tryin to provide a service an stay afloat.
I think it was a nobel idea for OTW an Harpoon to revisit one of the great old tourney's of the past.I think they where genuine tryin to revive some of the great history behind the trophy.Do i think this tourney needs some tweeking To bring it up to modern times absolutely.It is a different world in striped bass fishing.Our club tourneys in NJ work off a similar format.Participaction is a joke.As some clubs don't even weigh in fish.Last yr I only weighed in a few myself.Some things people hold on to because of the history.Change doesn't always come so easy.Cursing an flaming gets nothing done.Instead of a bashing thread How bout some Real Idea's on how this can be done.Now remember u have to be able to invite back quite a few folks to the brewery for a party.It has to viable for both Harpoon OTW an Their sponsors.So how can they accomplish this.If u think about it it can be difficult.But a dogpile on the rabbit gets nothing done.Perhaps making it a big fish tourney is the only real way to limit great overall kills.Like fish over 30 lbs.It will get u enough in to fill a banquet hall an not absolutley pound the fisherey with 15 lb weighed in fish.The Fisherman Mag runs a very similar format for many species I never see anyone complain about that.The contest is already opened up. So it's gonna be tough to change it while it's under way.
That'll be the real challenge one the lawyers might not wanna touch.

stiff tip · 04-01-2006, 11:07 PM

NIB.... i could,nt say it better myself ...the other rag does the samething .in i have yet to see PETA at there front door ...some guys refuse to see a good intent ,and only see negativity..i dont think like that .. cause i,m 7 1/2yrs old ,,,and i,m a big boy.......dave...

Skitterpop · 04-01-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiff tip

.. cause i,m 7 1/2yrs old ,,,and i,m a big boy.......dave...

What the hell does this mean?

Did you find that album?

Bedford Blues · 04-02-2006, 01:08 AM

Fishing for Bass should not be made a competitive event.
the Stiper population is no where near the level of the 1950's
or 1960's and early 70's. i like OTW but this is a mistake.

MakoMike · 04-04-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedford Blues

Fishing for Bass should not be made a competitive event.
the Stiper population is no where near the level of the 1950's
or 1960's and early 70's. i like OTW but this is a mistake.

Yeah, your right about that. The current population is much higher than it was back then!

BigFish · 04-04-2006, 12:24 PM

Fishing for bass is and has been a competitive event for some time! All the clubs have a club derby to my knowledge...MSBA, RISSA, MBBA, Plum Island to name a few.......all require fish be weighed and measured on certified scales....no catch and release there! How many of you nay sayers fish your club derbies? Explain to me the difference one from the other?

Saltheart · 04-02-2006, 01:12 AM

I think we want to stay focused on the impact to the fishery. I don't want this thread turning into a "we hate OTW thread". I think its a fine Magazine that hasn't thought the format through well in terms of being conservation minded.

I would suggest that all the club stuff is fine and the individual stuff is all exciting and both should increase overall interest which is good. . Just figure out a way to keep score without needing people to kill so many fish.

I think something like a max entry of 5 fish per person over the whole tournament. You might even further say 1 per month for a total of five , that would rteduce the kill even further but might be squeezing the fun part too much

I'm sure there are lots of other ideas . Keep the posts about the potential fish kill and what to do about it , and give the magazine people a break.

BigFish · 04-02-2006, 01:20 AM

I will be looking for that one nice fish per month......I catch alot of fish but don't lay claim to being a cow killer/catcher......I will be lucky to catch anything worth weighing in knowing full well it will take a fish over 50 pounds to compete overall anyway....so I don't see my catch and kill habit changing in the least......I only keep 2 or 3 fish anyway all season.....and I won't keep a fish to tally overall points anyway as I don't really care for that type of thing. I will be keeping that one nice fish if I am fortunate enough but otherwise I will keep only a couple for the table. I enjoy the camraderie with my fellow fishermen.....this can be a fun event if we treat it right!

Raven · 04-02-2006, 01:56 AM

bigfish.... you have learned the true essence of fishing.

Swimmer · 04-02-2006, 11:08 AM

that most of us only dream about catching a 30 #, 40#, or a 50# FISH. Give OTW a chance at working out the kinks before your wedgie causes blood loss to the extremities.

spence · 04-02-2006, 03:15 AM

Guys, I think you took my statement the wrong way. I'm not blaming OTW for beeing greedy, just perhaps shortsighted...

-spence

piemma · 04-02-2006, 06:40 AM

I believe there was no ill intent on the part of OTW. They just didn't think the whole thing through. I have written to Chris in the past an gotten replies that may not have agreed with me but were his opinion, which is fine. Send him emails or write or call and let your feeling about the tournament be heard. i think they will respond. They don't want a war with their readers.
Let's let calmer heads prevail.

JoeP · 04-02-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemma

I believe there was no ill intent on the part of OTW. They just didn't think the whole thing through. I have written to Chris in the past an gotten replies that may not have agreed with me but were his opinion, which is fine. Send him emails or write or call and let your feeling about the tournament be heard. i think they will respond. They don't want a war with their readers.
Let's let calmer heads prevail.

I never received a response to my 2 e-mails from last year's "OTW" controversial issue.

Mike P · 04-02-2006, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strike_King

My concern would be with the yahoos and weekend warriors that read the magazine.The ones that have no clue about C+R,conservation,etc.The ones that can't even tie a knot. .

You mean the ones that stretch a tape measure every which way from Sunday over a 28 -1/1000" fish? And keep two rats a fraction of an inch over the limit?

Look at the bright side--if they enter, they'll at least be keeping two fish that probably already had a chance to spawn once. Maybe they'll actually start releasing anything under 34".

King Neptune · 04-03-2006, 12:51 PM

Mass, RI & CT regulations clearly state that anglers are allowed 2 fish at 28” per angler per day. That’s 14 fish per week. If someone really wanted to, they can keep over 300 bass a season. Does anyone keep that many fish? No. But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.
In my opinion, harvesting fish can be good for a species. Many fisheries encourage keeping fish, and if regulated properly, leads to a healthier population.
Take a look at deer hunting. Overpopulation leads to malnourished deer that can’t survive the winter. Hunting leads to bigger, healthier deer.
Weighing in 2 fish a week over an 18 week tournament will not make stripers extinct. Just as we are all allowed to keep 14 fish a week, no one really does, and I don’t think there will be many people weighing in 2 fish every week in this tournament, just to win a trophy. I think the two fish-per-week rule is a good limit, and is far more conservation-minded than many other tournaments (take a look at the MV derby). Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

JohnR · 04-03-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Neptune

Mass, RI & CT regulations clearly state that anglers are allowed 2 fish at 28” per angler per day. That’s 14 fish per week. If someone really wanted to, they can keep over 300 bass a season. Does anyone keep that many fish? No. But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.

Yes the regulations clearly state that BUT assuming if everyone were able to catch and then to take 2 legal fish per day / 14 per week, there would be a SIGNIFICANT impact on the fishery.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the state allocations are based on perceived pressure as there are not landing receipts from every angler on every trip to give hard numbers. So they use their estimates from their dosckside / shoreside studies and guestimate a total catch and compare that to what they feel the biomass can manage and be sustainable. A couple years ago they might say to Mass DMF that they can allocatate for grins and giggles 1 million pounds of bass and Mass then would need to come up with regulations to meet that target. For years Mass had 1 fish @ 28 inches and based on the numbers available at the time, Mass had an uncaught balance of about 14% under the quota. So Mass for example could have added 2 fish @ 28 for say 3 months of the season as they felt that would use the last 14% of their allowable quota. When Mass went to 2 @ 28 they felt the chances of one person keeping the second fish was significantly less than keeping the first. And they assigned some number like 10% of trips would catch a keeper in the first place...

Sorry for the ramble but 2 fish per day per angler for 7 days a week for the entire season would really harm the fishery.

spence · 04-03-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Neptune

But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.

I'd wager there's simply no way this could be true. The difference in scale is so huge the formula must be weighted to compensate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Neptune

Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

I think this sums up the entire thread pretty well.

-spence

beamie · 04-03-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Neptune

Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

Unfortunately, since there are big prizes involved that 50 pounder will go imediately on ice until the next week when it can be weighed.

stiff tip · 04-02-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indanite

What the hell does this mean?

Did you find that album?

its a dig ...it was late last night ,and i was tired, nothing personal..but it sounds like a lot of crying ,over a good intent, as for otw,s mag ,the intent of the derby was to have a good time bass fishing derby not a petty pi$$ing contest ...the opinions good or bad will make to the office for considration trust me ,,DAVE

Skitterpop · 04-02-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiff tip

its a dig ...it was late last night ,and i was tired, nothing personal..but it sounds like a lot of crying ,over a good intent, as for otw,s mag ,the intent of the derby was to have a good time bass fishing derby not a petty pi$$ing contest ...the opinions good or bad will make to the office for considration trust me ,,DAVE

I`m with you here Dave. I was kidding ya back.
I`ve been reading your stuff for years. Been getting OTW ever since 1997 when I moved close to the ocean and starting surf fishing/salt fishing. I appreciate OTW and all your articles and experiences & knowledge you have shared. Missed your articles in the last few years and got used to seeing Steve mention you in his as one of his fishing buds.

Hope this all works out for you and OTW and the Stripers.

Mike

inTHERAPY · 04-02-2006, 08:25 AM

I have to agree with bigfish. I will sign up for the tourney and my fishing "kill" will not be different from last year. I am looking for big fish, I couldn't care less about a 30# or 40# pin. On the other hand, a 50# or 60# is another story. I think a lot of weekly weighers may be commercial fishers who are taking bass anyway. Anyway, I mentioned my concerns about the yearly #age totals to OTW at the nesaltwater show ( I hope you all did the same ) and look forward to the party.

l.i.fish.in.vt · 04-02-2006, 08:32 AM

i can see the concern for the possible ill effects of the tournament on the stiped bass population, but i don't see the contest changing the way people keep fish or release them .the serious fisherman isn't going to keep fish just to weught them in unless it is a large fish. that they would probably keep anyways. the average joe who might weigh in a 34 inch probably won't catch 2 a week anyways and if he did he would keep them anyways.