cutting VMC's

[Clogston29]

I think some plugs swim better with cut hooks than with split rings. That and keeping hooks from fouling are the only reasons I do it. Once I have one break, I'll probably change.

[MAC]

I've had hooks straighten out but never had an eye break or open. (usually my fault; drag set too tight ) To me if the drag is set properly and you only bend it once they are fine. If you over bend them after cutting them they break occaissionally. Or if you miss when you close it and try to adjust again that is where a problem could occur. Granted they rust quicker when you cut them so you just have to keep an eye on them and replace as needed. The rebending due to a miss includes Mustad open eye as well. Mustads biggest problem now is their coating sux and the hooks are dull as a Bic pen. Hooks aren't going to last forever if you fish a plug. Rinsing with freshwater helps but eventually they need replacing. EPA standards won't allow hook manufacturers to use what they could 10 or 12 years ago.

[MAC]

Another thing to think about is like Pete and Clogston said. Some plugs do swim better without split rings. Most plugs with 2 belly hooks were made to accomodate cut hooks. Add in split rings and hooks can and do sometimes tangle. Depending on the size of the lure its hook placement can't be changed enough to make split rings work without affecting the action of the plug.

[DZ]

Good question and good responses.

Pete,
Just a few thoughts about cut trebles: I have lots of experience (more than I wish to remember) with all aspects of failed treble hooks. I prefer to use non-cut trebles and attach them with heavy duty split rings on almost all my plugs.

That said, I have never had a cut treble fail (on a hook-up) where the cut was. They would straighten like the non-cut trebles but the “cut” never failed on a fish. The cut trebles do have a tendency to break when trying to remove them as has been said by others on this thread. When metal is bent it weakens – cut trebles should be used once - then discarded.

I use heavy duty split rings on my plugs – what I’ve learned is that split rings give your treble hook more room to rotate so as to counteract a bass’s ability to gain leverage and straighten them. Split rings are especially important in connecting the rear treble of the plug. I have had split rings fail on occasion but I believe that having them on has prevented many more straightened trebles. Remember - these applications have been put through the ultimate test at the island in the days of big bass that seemed to take pleasure in destroying your tackle.

As far as trebles on Danny style plugs fouling: a trick I’ve learned from some of the NY crowd was to graduate the size of the trebles you use. If it’s a three treble plug use a 4/0 on the front 3/0 on the middle and 2/0 on the rear. There are so many danny style metal lips out there now that you may have to adjust treble size depending on the plug.
This should help decrease fouling.

I’m thinking about doing a new seminar on ways to tinker with plugs to improve them. It would cover loading plugs, trebles, split rings, droppers, etc. Any interest out there?
DZ

[JFigliuolo]

Sign me up!

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by DZ

As far as trebles on Danny style plugs fouling: a trick I’ve learned from some of the NY crowd was to graduate the size of the trebles you use. If it’s a three treble plug use a 4/0 on the front 3/0 on the middle and 2/0 on the rear. There are so many danny style metal lips out there now that you may have to adjust treble size depending on the plug.
This should help decrease fouling.

I’m thinking about doing a new seminar on ways to tinker with plugs to improve them. It would cover loading plugs, trebles, split rings, droppers, etc. Any interest out there?
DZ

I've been able significantly slow tangling by using the new Wolverine #5 splits on my Dannys. It's almost as good as using open-eye hooks; both the small size of the split ring as well as the width helps tuck the hook up close to the plug. I'm tempted to stick with it now despite occasional tangles. The past few seasons I've been running just a teaser on the tail with 2 3/0's on the belly. The fish seem to approve...

A plug tweaking seminar would be great! No one is really doing anything like that, outside of Steve McKenna with Sluggos. And everyone loves that presentation.

[RIROCKHOUND]

A plug tweaking seminar would be great! No one is really doing anything like that, outside of Steve McKenna with Sluggos. And everyone loves that presentation.[/QUOTE]

Oooohhh yeah....
love to pick the brain of the master
D.. got some new pocket rockets... lighter than normal for calmer water.... One has your name on it... maybe the march meeting....

[tattoobob]

Originally Posted by DZ

I’m thinking about doing a new seminar on ways to tinker with plugs to improve them. It would cover loading plugs, trebles, split rings, droppers, etc. Any interest out there?
DZ

Count me in, I loved your last talk as well

[Zeno]

I have yet to see a darter that swims better with a split ring than without it.
I cut VMC hooks on most of my plugs.The only exception is my pencils and sometimes needles.I wouldn't dream on putting one on junior atom or a darter.Do they open ? Not that I ever experienced or seen.I did have a 2/0 closed eye VMC straitened out............tight drag........
To those of you who automatically add split rings to all your plugs ...a thought....
I know a well known builder who literally breaks his a** to get a swivel burred into the body as deep as possible so that the hook without the split ring doesn't hang low.Now when you add a ring you kind of defeat the purpose.....not that I am advocating that the buyer of a plug should not be able to rig it anyway it wants ,mind you......another thing ...did you ever consider that by adding a split rig you just added another thing that can possibly fail (at worst possible times of course)?

[JHABS]

Fact is When you Cut a closed eyed V.M.C. YOU weaken the hook expose it to more corrosion , There is No way you are going to Break a Wolverine Split Ring. Or bend a 6x strong V.M.C.,Also with the ring you are talking about adding a little length which may change the action on some Plugs but Very little if Any,I've tried with and with out rings on some New swimmers that will be out this Year and there was NO change in action........ So some say potato and some say potatoe...........Its a Personal Perference thingy....................Do what Works for You.

[Zeno]

Good point John ."Whatever works for you " is a good motto to have ,not just while fishing but in life too.

Out of curiously did anyone's hook ever open at the eye by a fish ?Mustad ,cut VMC ,whatever brand ?
I seen plenty of hooks straiten out but I am yet to see eye opened up ?
Anyone cares to share ?

[parker23]

I have changed all of my tail hooks to single. I am slowly changing belly hooks to singles as well. I am a flyfishing convert, trebble hooks are nasty. I do not like hooking a fish w/3-9 points, when I can do it w/one. Trebbles do increase hookup/landing ratio, however, it is not worth the cost to the fishing stock. Hooks in the eye, spine, gut and cheek drive me nuts. I feel like a freeking gill netter, killing anything within the grasp of my hooks. I'd rather land fewer fish than fowl hooking a schoolie w/3 sets of trelbes lodged into its body.

In my opinion, if you keep a tight line to the fish you do not need 9 points to land the fish. My dad caugt a 64# bass on a single hook w/ eel. Why do we need so many extra points w/artificials?

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Good point John ."Whatever works for you " is a good motto to have ,not just while fishing but in life too.

Out of curiously did anyone's hook ever open at the eye by a fish ?Mustad ,cut VMC ,whatever brand ?
I seen plenty of hooks straiten out but I am yet to see eye opened up ?
Anyone cares to share ?

Never, and judging by the posts in this thread it's rare or simply doesn't occur. Which is exactly what I wanted to have confirmed.

[tlapinski]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Out of curiously did anyone's hook ever open at the eye by a fish ?Mustad ,cut VMC ,whatever brand ?
I seen plenty of hooks straiten out but I am yet to see eye opened up ?
Anyone cares to share ?

Goo Goo eyes with 4/0 open eye mustads this year. Opened the front hook eye up, landed the fish on the tail hook. Had a fishing partner loose a bass last year on Block after a lengthy battle. The plug went out with a pair of 3/0 mustad open eyes, came back without any hooks. 2 seasons ago, another fishing partner was throwing a Gibbs darter and dropped a good bass during the the battle. Brought the plug in and one of the hooks was gone. He had 3/0 or 4/0 open eye mustads on the plug. So, it does happen, just not as often as hooks straighten.