D. Ortiz MVP

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Arno

"All bat"? Respectfully disagree. He's as good a glove-man as anyone. In fact he's fast, he can hit, field, run the bases, and he's smart. Like him or hate him, 'doesn't matter a lick. The fact remains that he's a total ballplayer.

If he's so fast why does he only have 18 Stolen bases????He doesn't even lead his TEAM in this category. I already admitted he could hit, that's what will get it for him, if he gets it. and based on THIS years stats he is an averge Fielder (it doesn't matter what he's done in the past). Pretty much middle of the road on most defensive categories and bottom 3rd in his range rating.

[BigFish]

When he has been on 1st...I don't recall him letting us down with any errors?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

If he's so fast why does he only have 18 Stolen bases????He doesn't even lead his TEAM in this category.

Because for most of the year, he batted third in the order, with guys like Sheffield and Giambi hitting behind him. You don't go running a guy, or play hit and run, and risk running yourself out of a potential big inning and/or taking the bat out of your sluggers' hands. Not a lot of teams have their #3 hitter stealing with their clean-up hitter at the plate and less than 2 outs

Let's say Ortiz had speed---would you run him with Manny at the plate?

[The Dad Fisherman]

DOHHH! Can't argue that one....


But I still stand behind the fact that if he wins the MVP its because of his bat...not his defense.

[Arno]

But I still stand behind the fact that if he wins the MVP its because of his bat...not his defense.

Of COURSE if he gets MVP his hitting will be the primary reason. No one's saying otherwise. What I'm saying is that in addition to his hitting, he is a total ballplayer. The guy just does everything well. Can anyone honestly deny that?

I'll use another example (which is sure to rankle die-hard Red Sox fans). Without question, Manny Ramirez is a solid hitter. Pure and natural. When he's on, they don't come much better. Okay, let's say for the sake of discussion that he and A-Rod have IDENTICAL batting stats this year. Now who do you think would have a better shot at MVP? Manny or A-Rod? Keep in mind that I chose Manny because despite his assists, he is a below average outfielder. Most of the time, he doesn't have a clue how to run the bases. Often lacks hustle. And is often in a time warp. With that in mind, for MVP wouldn't you choose someone who does it all, rather than someone who matches hitting stats - but lags behind on everything else? Think about it. It's only common sense.

[Squid kids Dad]

Manny all the way... Only kidding.....

[The Dad Fisherman]

Under this same scenario, what if the Red Sox are in 1st Place and the Yankees are in 3rd. Then who would get it?

You also have to take into consideration how Valuable the stats were to the teams Success. I stated earlier that the Between Papi and A-Fraud, whoevers team makes the playoffs is probably going to be the deciding factor.

Originally Posted by Arno

Of COURSE if he gets MVP his hitting will be the primary reason. No one's saying otherwise. What I'm saying is that in addition to his hitting, he is a total ballplayer. The guy just does everything well. Can anyone honestly deny that?

I'll use another example (which is sure to rankle die-hard Red Sox fans). Without question, Manny Ramirez is a solid hitter. Pure and natural. When he's on, they don't come much better. Okay, let's say for the sake of discussion that he and A-Rod have IDENTICAL batting stats this year. Now who do you think would have a better shot at MVP? Manny or A-Rod? Keep in mind that I chose Manny because despite his assists, he is a below average outfielder. Most of the time, he doesn't have a clue how to run the bases. Often lacks hustle. And is often in a time warp. With that in mind, for MVP wouldn't you choose someone who does it all, rather than someone who matches hitting stats - but lags behind on everything else? Think about it. It's only common sense.

[Arno]

This might be a good time to take a step back. As I understand it, the baseball writers choose the MVP based on that ballplayer's "overall contribution" to a team's success. My point is that whether the team finishes in 1st or 3rd shouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor in making the choice.

<A personal note> While I've been a "John Q. Average" fan of baseball for many years, I'm not a fan of any particular team. I'm just one of many who simply enjoys good well played baseball - no matter which team. Being this kind of fan makes objectivity fairly easy. (Certainly less stressful, too.) But needless to say, it doesn't guarantee having all the right answers, either. Anyway, with that in mind, I really have to wonder... if A-Rod had been signed by the Red Sox when they had the chance, and if he was at SS right about now instead of Rentaria, would he still be receiving all the criticism many Sox fans lay on him? I think not.

On a lighter note. Today happens to mark the anniversary of "the catch" made by Willie Mays off Vic Wertz back in the '54 WS. I happened to catch it live on tv when I was a kid, and it was/is one of those baseball moments you never forget. I'm guessin' most baseball fans who were around at that time would probably agree.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I actually have 2 favorite teams

The Red Sox and Whoever is playing the Yankees.

I will admit I am SLIGHTLY Biased..

And in all honesty I didn't want A-Rod for Manny when it was 1st announced...

as has been stated on this board MANY Times....Let just agree to disagree.....and watch what should be a great week of baseball