It's time to..........

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Bush didnt create katrina, we all did. its called global climate change, global warming, etc...

And don't forget nature and our number simply coming up. Sure global climate change and warming has a small part but that what it is, a small part. Hurricanes and Typhoons predated the industrial revolution by a billion or so years...

[fishweewee]

Flap, keep it up and you're going to be investigated by the Secret Service, no joke.

If it's any comfort to you, market conditions now exist where the refiners of oil now have an economic incentive to expand refinery capacity. Does anyone remember when gas was real cheap (below $0.75 a gallon in the '90's) and gas and oil companies were laying people off by the thousands? This is the flip side of that.

Even with added capacity, we have the challenge of rising consumption from China and India to deal with, as their economies are exploding.

For all you Bush bashers, consider this: high oil prices are not good for the economy. Our whole way of life is driven by oil. Higher oil prices act as a tax on us consumers and drives up the cost of doing business. The last four recessions have been preceded by oil going through $40 per bbl. We are experiencing a weird anomaly right now where the economy doesn't seem to be taking a huge hit - yet, from oil that is now at $70 per bbl, largely because economies in most developed countries are growing concurrently.

President Bush would never want the economy to be jeopardized - for obvious political reasons. We are all watching the price of oil, which could literally push us into a recession in three to six months if conditions persist. That is one reason why the President has released strategic reserves, to offset supply disruption from the recent hurricane. The Gulf Coast provides 40% of our gas and oil.

In the meantime, cut your consumption where you can. Oil is a self-correcting commodity. If it goes to a certain level, people just won't buy it. Carpool, use mass transit, switch to more fuel efficient vehicles, or just walk.

[Flaptail]

Ben I know it's no joke. I may have gone overboard but GW should be at least impeached for if anything else incompetence. I see he just inlisted his Dad and Clinton for a sort of Tsunami II relief drive and they have more troops lined up to go in. Now they are talking about the value of rebuilding the city of New Orleans. Seems to me that though the experts say this was a once in a 200 year storm doesn't mean it can't happen again ( is that speculation? ) Should remove the place to higher ground if any exists around there. As you can see GW is not my fav president and neither was the guy before him or before him as well. The real decent smart and deserving individuals who should be our commader and chief won't run and that's a shame, course you need bucks too, loadas of them or friends with it. If I run would you help me financially?

[Flaptail]

Oh and another thing he has not released strategic reserves only loosened epa restrictions on blending.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Gotta agree with John on that one Nebe;
Extreme weather events are part of life (before we were here)
Floods, hurricanes etc.. are only a problem when people are affected; if that happened in an uninhabited jungle it wouldnt have been a big deal;
We created Katrina ONLY in the sense that A. People lived in a city below sea level
B. Leavees were built to handle only a cat 3 hurricane
C. People will build there again.

There is debate that warming has increased the frequency and strength of hurricanes; the data I have seen leaves me skeptical at best for now. Rising sea level has a decent effect; down in the gulf coast sea level is rising faster (actually the land is sinking) than New England. This rise (say ~0.75cm/yr) is nothing when added to a 20ft surge; BUT at that rate, sea level is ~12" higher relative to that region than it was when camille hit.... those numbers are approximate done quote me... but ballpark....

For you guys smart with numbers and economics, will the post labor day decrease in demand off-set the prices at all?

[fishweewee]

Have we ever had a natural catastrophe in recent history that has taken out an entire U.S. City? N.O. was only ONE of several areas drastically hit by this storm. I don't think we have precedent for this, give the prez a break, there's only so much he can do in so little time. This is being billed as the WORST natural disaster in U.S. history!

[fishaholic18]

The end is near! Fish Hard!
And look at the HOTTIE thread!

[Bronko]

I can imagine the ease with which you all would have accepted the current administrations purchase of five thousand rescue boats, a fleet of amphibious personel carriers, floating bridges, rebuilt levies, increased national guard presence in New Orleans and the appropriation of billions of US taxpayer dollars just waiting for a category 5 hurricane to slam into new Orleans. If Bush propsed any of this 6 months ago you would have all been calling for a straight jacket. This administration has many faults, however responding to catastrophic tradgedy is clearly not one of them. (See 9/11, the tsunami, the Sudan and countless other heroic acts of selflessness doled out around the world on a daily basis). I have seen some stupid comments on this board, but blaming the administration for their response to this tradgedy only a few days since the hurricane takes the cake. Save you rabid anti-GW rhetoric for your lay-up arguments like WMD and your gal Cindy Sheehan. This storm has/will cause damage the like of which our country has never seen. To be playing armchair quarterback 72 hours after the fact is borderline insanity.

[Pete_G]

With all the talk of revolution and all, it seems like a good time to post it:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

I agree with Flaptail. Viva la Revolution!

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by fishweewee

Have we ever had a natural catastrophe in recent history that has taken out an entire U.S. City? N.O. was only ONE of several areas drastically hit by this storm. I don't think we have precedent for this, give the prez a break, there's only so much he can do in so little time. This is being billed as the WORST natural disaster in U.S. history!

Other than maybe Galveston (which has what, maybe a quarter of the population of NO?), there isn't another major US city that could be entirely taken out by a hurricane. Ben, hate to say this, but no hurricane expert anywhere is at all shocked at what happened down there--it's been predicted and modeled for years, and it happened exactly according to the "book".

Camille, the only prior comparable storm in my lifetime, was maybe half as big across as Katrina, and places like Biloxi and Gulfport were in fact devasted back then. As bad as Andrew was, it was a tiny storm in diameter and its swath of devastation was basically from Homestead to Coral Gables. People in Lauderdale or Boca only experienced gale force winds. What has changed since then is, the coastline has become more developed, everywhere. Mississippi being no exception. People bought houses without giving any thought to what would happen if a Big One came ashore.

But, the bottom line is, Nixon did more in a shorter time after Camille for the affected areas than GWB did. Hell, he didn't even cut short his 6 week vacation and fly back to DC until last Wednesday.