They Think It Can't Happen Here Again!!!!

[Homerun04]

we should focus on our own problems

Huh? You mean that terrorists killing us isn't our problem....?? Why worry about the roads if we are all going to be dead if we don't address the immediate threat to our country first?

[beachwalker]

you're absolutely right HR.

guerrila warfare. we, and others, can never let our guard down anymore.

everytime we do ?

[beachwalker]

[spence]

Originally Posted by Homerun04

Huh? You mean that terrorists killing us isn't our problem....?? Why worry about the roads if we are all going to be dead if we don't address the immediate threat to our country first?

You can make a pretty good argument that a host of domestic issues kill far more Americans every year than terrorisim ever will. Doesn't mean terror doesn't need to be addressed, but our Nation's priorities are certianly out of whack in many ways. You've said as much yourself.

-spence

[Mike P]

You can mark this down and take it to the bank:

Before the year 2015, a nuclear device is going to be detonated somewhere in an urban area of the US, killing at minimum half a million people, either immediately or due to the after effects. I flat-out guarantee it. Sure as the sunrise.

It's inevitable. And I don't pretend to be smart enough to know how to prevent it.

The aftermath of that ain't gonna be pretty. For anyone.

[spence]

If that's the case Mike (and I tend to agree) then why have we don't little to nothing to secure our borders, ports and old Soviet nukes since 9/11?

Doesn't add up.

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

If that's the case Mike (and I tend to agree) then why have we don't little to nothing to secure our borders, ports and old Soviet nukes since 9/11?

Doesn't add up.

-spence

John Bolton

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by Mike P

You can mark this down and take it to the bank:

Before the year 2015, a nuclear device is going to be detonated somewhere in an urban area of the US, killing at minimum half a million people, either immediately or due to the after effects. I flat-out guarantee it. Sure as the sunrise.

It's inevitable. And I don't pretend to be smart enough to know how to prevent it.

The aftermath of that ain't gonna be pretty. For anyone.

For all the security that's been upped at the Cargo docks I can't help but wonder that that device might sail right under our noses in the keel of a cruising sailboat coming in from who knows where....



It could be detonated before it even reaches a port.

the whole scenario is scarey for sure Mike...

[Homerun04]

Yes, Spence, I agree. There are many things our country should have been addressing all these years. Trust me, I am no great cheerleader of any country that is as wealthy as our's but still wont address hunger, healtcare, poverty, global warming, etc. right here in our own country. I'd be interested in your list of domestic issues that

kill far more Americans every year than terrorisim ever will.

But given our limited resources don't you think that our first priority should be staying alive another day so that we can eventually address all our domestic issues someday? Doesn't our survival come first?

I guess what it comes down to is that some people in this thread actually do believe the US is at war right now, while some others don't believe we are in a war. My feeling is those who do not think we are in a war right now are playing into the hands of the terrorirsits. I believe that the radicals in the Middle East PURPOSEFULLY did not use a country to attack the USA but rather used a group of non-nationals (i.e. read terrorists) to attack us. They know that when in a "traditional" war when one country fights another country - no one will ever beat the USA. So they changed the rules on us. And I do beleive the terrorists are government sponsored. These people may be evil, but they are not dumb.

But make no mistake about it -- we ARE in a war right now. And yes, we can argue all day along about where our resources should go in order to make for a better and safer USA. All of them need to be addressed. Just in what order?

[Homerun04]

If that's the case Mike (and I tend to agree) then why have we don't little to nothing to secure our borders, ports and old Soviet nukes since 9/11?

That is EXACTLY my point Spence. We in the USA need to CHANGE our vision of what the USA is all about UNTIL we end the terrorism threat.

Once that is accomplished, then we can go back to the "open society" vision we have for the USA.

When you have a perfectly good barrel of apples, and then you let a few bad apples in to the barrel, you stop letting any more apples into the barrel until the bad apples have been expelled or eliminated -- or else eventually the whole barrel spoils.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Homerun04

That is EXACTLY my point Spence. We in the USA need to CHANGE our vision of what the USA is all about UNTIL we end the terrorism threat.

Exactly the wrong thing to do.

There's no reason why we can't deal with terrorisim without changing what makes America the best country in the world. The challenge is in putting aside partisan BS and electoral paranoia and working toward pragmatic and mindful solutions.

-spence

[Homerun04]

Exactly the wrong thing to do.

Well then I'll remember your feelings on this the next time terrorist kill over 4,000 people in the US. As for me, I never want to look any mother in the eye AGAIN who's child has died here in the US due to a terrorist attack - and have to tell her that I think the terrorists have just as much right to be here in the USA as does anyone else -- because that is the kind of country we WANT to be.

Theory and practicality are often at odds with one another.

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by spence

Exactly the wrong thing to do.

There's no reason why we can't deal with terrorisim without changing what makes America the best country in the world. The challenge is in putting aside partisan BS and electoral paranoia and working toward pragmatic and mindful solutions.

-spence

no offense spence (not directed "at" you) but IMO opinion America has to STOP bragging that they are the "GREATEST" or "BEST" country in the world. That is a big reason why a lot of other countries dislike us. We are to cockey. A lot of other countries don't suck either....

[spence]

Originally Posted by beachwalker

no offense spence (not directed "at" you) but IMO opinion America has to STOP bragging that they are the "GREATEST" or "BEST" country in the world. That is a big reason why a lot of other countries dislike us. We are to cockey. A lot of other countries don't suck either....

Nothing wrong with feeling you're the best, the US is pretty unique in the World community.

The problem is a lack of humility, overt entitlement and the obvious arrogance.

-spence

[Mike P]

Long ago, someone wrote that if a nuclear bomb ever hit NYC, it wouldn't arrive on the nose of a Soviet ICBM but in the hull of a freighter. This was before dozens of large container ships arrived in Port Newark and Port Elizabeth every day of the year. Each carrying over 100 individual truck containers. Impossible to check every one before they enter the port area. Even with triple or quadruple the resources we have employed at the moment---and yes, it's a paltry and pathetic effort at present. Even screening them before they left the unloading area wouldn't be much of a deterrent. You don't have to wait for a semi to hook up to it and drive it into lower Manhattan--you set a timer to detonate it at the dock. You kill everyone in a 2 mile radius and with the right wind, you blanket Manhattan with radiation.

Same thing with other ports, like Baltimore, that have large scale containerized freight operations. How many thousands of individual containers get off loaded every day at the various ports?

Like I said---I'm not smart enough to figure it out. Hopefully, intelligence assets can sniff out such a plan, but they still only need to get lucky once.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Homerun04

Huh? You mean that terrorists killing us isn't our problem....?? Why worry about the roads if we are all going to be dead if we don't address the immediate threat to our country first?

On average 43,000 people die in car accidents each year.
17,000 of those are drunk driving related.


Statistically, thats a bit more "immediate" than terrorism.

And also statistically, drunk drivers are more dangerous *in the US* than a terrorist.

More people in the US *alone* die because of drunk drivers than of terrorism *worldwide*.