They Think It Can't Happen Here Again!!!!

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by spence

That's simply not true. The Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions detail treament of prisoners who don't have POW status. The US Army's field manual even recognizes protections for non-POW's "engaged in hostile or belligerent conduct."

Perhaps even more significant was the recent US Supreme court ruling that "United States courts have jurisdiction to consider challenges to the legality of the detention of foreign nationals captured abroad in connection with hostilities and incarcerated at Guantánamo Bay."

-spence

O.K., I'm going to have to look up those two treaties. The U.S. army field manual is just that, a manual, no force of law and can be changed at the pentagon's whim. As far as the court rulings go, notice that they didn't say that the Consitution applied, only that the detainees needed to have some sort of hearing. In fact that decision proves my point about the consitution not applying outside the U.S. Do you think the courts would allow a hearing before a military tribunal to pass for justice, inside the U.S. ?

[Nebe]

boy it wouls really suck if you were innocent wouldnt it???

[Homerun04]

janefonda was great in barberella IMO

Eben is the man....always get's us all back on track in our threads.

Where does "common sense" play into this arguement? Geneva Convention or not....who cares? Here are the FACTS:

1. These terrorrists (radical Islamists, Muslins, and Al-Quaeda) are NOT a recognized nation. They come from many countries, and only share one thing in common -- their radical interpretation of their religion makes them beleive the West are the evil infidels, and they beleive they have a moral obligation to kill all Westerners.
2. They are training an Army of people every day to kill Americans.
3. They have declared war on America -- many, many times.
4. They have attacked America a number of times (embassies, 9/11, cruise ships - Achillie Lauro (sp?), etc).
5. They have killed thousands of Americans.
6. They will not stop until either they are all dead or we are all dead - IN THEIR OWN WORDS.

So, wouldn't common sense dictate that we do whatever we can to win this war now, and debate the "philosophies" of what we did after the war? If we do it the other way around, we might not be alive later on to have any discussions. I never understood the Geneva Convention -- or any conventions that try to put "rules" around wars. In reality who in their right minds would care about "good decurum" when they are about to be killed and wiped off the face of the earth? If you knew you where about to be killed, would you not prevent it because you thought you might be violating some convention?

Frankly, war is hell -- and IMO there are no rules in hell. Those of us looking to apply "rules" and "good behavior" during war time are destined to loose in war. IMO, we should be as brutal to them as they are to us. And once we eradicate them, then we can go back to being "nicey-nice". As for our Founding Father's, they rounded up many Torries on a regular basis without cause. The key to victory is not in defeating your enemy but it is in defeating your enemy's strategy (Tsun Tsu - The Art of War).

Sure, some might say that acting as brutal as them would make us as evil as they are, but I disagree. And here is the difference: We at least have the decency to go back to being civilized people after war, and act like barbarians only during war time. These terrorist people would still be looking for the next group of people to kill.

I sometimes think the people who are looking to treat everyone "fairly" are making the mistake of projecting our values onto everyone else -- so I ask, would they treat our prisoners according to the Geneva Convention? I don't think so. And as for me, I will always side with the men and women who have died -- and are fighting today -- for my freedom and the freedom, protection and safety of my children. Let's stop hamstringing our military - let them do their job. It would be done quicker, and ultimately a lot less lives would be lost on both sides of the ledger.

Do I wish we lived in a world where everyone obeyed International Laws and acted according to generally accepted rules of decency? Sure I do. But unfortunately we don't.

[likwid]

i do not support OBL's views, I'm just repeating what I read:

HR: I've read OBL's open letter to the US a half dozen times.
In it he says he wants us to leave the middle east and israel to stop killing palestinians and he'll stop.

In it he also says if we do not meet his conditions he'll continue ordering attacks on the US.

But yes, it also says he thinks we're psychotic and women blahblahblahblah all his psycho religiousbabble is nuts.

So blah, like I said, it all sucks.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[Homerun04]

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

So then let's do it and end it all sooner rather then later, IMO.

[likwid]

Then millions of innocents die because of a few.
Its all retarded.
All of it just makes me sad.

But I do especially hate one thing...

The media.

[Homerun04]

Then millions of innocents die because of a few.

Anyone who would let terrorist scum live and train in their country are not "innocent" people IMO. That is something we all need to come to grips with, and in my judgement, something that no one wants to address. Iraq needs to get their borders in control and start preventing terrorists from entering their country. If they can't do this, then they are going to pay the price of American bombs. Nothing would make the US happier then to have secure borders around every Middle East country so this way we can start holding the governments of these countries responsible for the actions of their citizens.

Think of the pshychology....if you were an Iraqi living in Iraq your entire life, and you were oppressed your entire life, and if you hated your government all these years, and then the USA comes in and frees you -- wouldn't you use the very first opportunity you had to get the HELL OUT OF THERE.

Why aren't more people leaving Iraq now that it is free? IMO it is because while most Iraqis detested Saddam they still think the West are evil infidels. So are they innocent? I don't know.

[beachwalker]

Originally Posted by likwid

Then millions of innocents die because of a few.
Its all retarded.
All of it just makes me sad.

But I do especially hate one thing...

The media.

yep


and you are correct as well spence. come on now skippy, a.k.a. adolf give us a break