No gun problem in the US

[wdmso]

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

what would the background check have shown in this case? cause to deny him a gun?

Chicago has tough gun laws. How’s that working out?

i’m not saying we do nothing.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

what would the background check have shown in this case? cause to deny him a gun?

Chicago has tough gun laws. How’s that working out?

i’m not saying we do nothing.
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Jim all guns in Chicago start out as legal guns.

Access and quantity are the big issues and the next are weapon types

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?

There is a reason and Mental heath isn’t that reason
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?


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According to Newsweek, "In 2018, the homicide rate in Mexico hit a record high of 35,964, spiking 12 percent from the year before, according to the country's National Institute of Statistics and Geography. Of those murders, at least 20,005 were carried out with guns." And the murders continued to rise at the time this article was written.

The numbers are similar or worse in other countries south of our border. And much worse in parts of Africa.

Are all those numbers, which are way worse than in the U.S., a result of the weapons (mostly guns)?

With 393 million guns owned by U.S. citizens, you'd think that those guns would be killing a way lot more people than they do.

Maybe most of the guns don't want to kill anybody?

We should outlaw the guns that want to kill people.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim all guns in Chicago start out as legal guns.

Access and quantity are the big issues and the next are weapon types

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?

There is a reason and Mental heath isn’t that reason
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i agree access and quantity are a big issue. i agree 100%.

what do we do about it? i honestly don’t know. we can’t confiscate hundreds of millions of guns. literally hundreds of millions. which makes
me wonder what gun laws will
do.

i don’t know why you can’t concede that mental health is part of it. i guess because the dnc hasn’t ordered you to believe it.

we’re a free country of 330 million people. there’s a very small number of very sick
folks, and a ton of guns.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i agree access and quantity are a big issue. i agree 100%.

what do we do about it? i honestly don’t know. we can’t confiscate hundreds of millions of guns. literally hundreds of millions. which makes
me wonder what gun laws will
do.

i don’t know why you can’t concede that mental health is part of it. i guess because the dnc hasn’t ordered you to believe it.

we’re a free country of 330 million people. there’s a very small number of very sick
folks, and a ton of guns.
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Any one who kills children has MH issues that’s obvious and not up to debate

Please don’t go down the confiscate nonsense the right loves to preach

But when an 18 year old buys 2 ARs and 350 rounds over 3 days and there’s no red flag or waiting period in Texas .. these are basic laws needed

But In the state of Texas, a mandatory 24-hour waiting period is required for all abortions. The waiting period begins at your in-office consultation and ultrasound visit. A mandatory ultrasound is also required by law under

Texas Priorities are clear
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

In 2008 Justice Antonin Scalia introduced another interpretation that gun proponents seize on to argue against gun control. He wrote the Supreme Court decision that individuals have the right to own firearms. But Scalia also stated, “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” He approved of “laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”
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There can be some qualifications, but the default should be shall issue unless there is a reason not to.

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It's a Mental Health AND a Culture Problem.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

what would the background check have shown in this case? cause to deny him a gun?

Chicago has tough gun laws. How’s that working out?

i’m not saying we do nothing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Doesn't work in Chicago.

RI did one thing sensible, they recently changed it to the town where you live runs the background check, not the town where the shop is.

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim all guns in Chicago start out as legal guns.

Access and quantity are the big issues and the next are weapon types

Why does only the United States have this gun violence problem?

There is a reason and Mental heath isn’t that reason
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Lots of stolen guns in Chicago but it is NEVER the criminal's fault.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

There can be some qualifications, but the default should be shall issue unless there is a reason not to.



It's a Mental Health AND a Culture Problem.



Doesn't work in Chicago.

RI did one thing sensible, they recently changed it to the town where you live runs the background check, not the town where the shop is.




Lots of stolen guns in Chicago but it is NEVER the criminal's fault.

It’s always the criminals fault

It’s never a criminals fault is just a conservatives 2a talking point

And I agree Mental Health AND a Culture Problem. Plus an a availability problem

In Texas you need to be 21 for a hand gun but 18 for any long rifle

The majority of responsible gun owners want better gun control but for some reason Republicans ignore those poll?

Have as many guns as you like they should all be registered. And have a purchase history or come with a title

Only 11 States Require Gun Owners to Report Stolen Weapons to Police

California
Connecticut
Delaware
District of Columbia
Illinois
Maryland (handguns and assault weapons only)
Massachusetts
Michigan (thefts only)
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island An DC

This 11 could be more this was dated 2017. But I doubt it


researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities estimated that as many as 380,000 weapons are lost or stolen each


More children died by guns than car crashes in 2020, for the first time in decades

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-car-crashes/


Clearly this study can’t blame it all on just mental health.

People who shoot up schools or serial killers yes Mental heath is a huge factor in their crimes I don’t think that’s debatable but some how the weapons the use isn’t debatable for many on the right as even a factor in their crimes?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

There can be some qualifications, but the default should be shall issue unless there is a reason not to.



It's a Mental Health AND a Culture Problem.



Doesn't work in Chicago.

RI did one thing sensible, they recently changed it to the town where you live runs the background check, not the town where the shop is.




Lots of stolen guns in Chicago but it is NEVER the criminal's fault.

no, it sure isn’t working in chicago.

We all need to get better at admitting what works, and expand in that. And admitting what doesn’t work, and either adjusting or doing away with what doesn’t work.

What Guiliani did in NY with gun violence not only worked, it was practically a miracle. But a lot of people won’t admit that, because they don’t like the party he’s in and that he likes Trump.

At the same time, some conservatives need to admit the 2a isn’t limitless. James Madison who wrote it, later banned firearms on campus at the university of VA when he was school president. Which means the guy who wrote it,,meant for the right to be limited. But again ,,if there are 400 million guns already out there, we need to concede that future gun control can at best have a limited impact because we aren’t confiscating them

We all need to set ideology aside, and just look at results honestly. It’s not hard.

and we need to admit that the constitution might be in the way of some things we’d like to do, and that’s ok.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

have you ever once said a democrat idea was wrong or a republican idea had any merit? ever?

democrats run the federal
government . what have they done last two years to stop these things? please specify.

democrats run chicago, which has strict anti gun laws? how is that working out?

you are not persuadable by results. ideology is all that matters.

if it’s not a mental health issue, why didn’t these things happen in the 1950s with this frequency? we’re guns invented in the 1990s?

almost everything you say is destroyed by historical facts.

all those crazy things you say the gop stands for, yet people are leaving blue states for red ones, and the gop is poised to do great in november. why is that?

this week, senate republicans proposed a school safety bill. senate democrats killed it. so stop saying the gop does nothing. you’re lying.

the 2 sides have different ideas, and neither side is willing to compromise, and you are a perfect example of that ideology-driven stupidity.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

have you ever once said a democrat idea was wrong or a republican idea had any merit? ever?

democrats run the federal
government . what have they done last two years to stop these things? please specify.

democrats run chicago, which has strict anti gun laws? how is that working out?

you are not persuadable by results. ideology is all that matters.

if it’s not a mental health issue, why didn’t these things happen in the 1950s with this frequency? we’re guns invented in the 1990s?

almost everything you say is destroyed by historical facts.

all those crazy things you say the gop stands for, yet people are leaving blue states for red ones, and the gop is poised to do great in november. why is that?

this week, senate republicans proposed a school safety bill. senate democrats killed it. so stop saying the gop does nothing. you’re lying.

the 2 sides have different ideas, and neither side is willing to compromise, and you are a perfect example of that ideology-driven stupidity.
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More than 100 TV ads from Republican candidates and conservative-aligned groups showed guns or used guns as a talking point this year,

Pull your head from the Sand

the GOP unwillingness to try to prevent these Crimes is the actual issue ..

And chicago has a Gang and Gun Issue .. but get back to me when there intent is shooting and killing children Wholesale ..

How And Why Chicago Violence Became Conservatives' Favorite Talking Point

and clearly yours

For a certain segment of conservative politicians and pundits—far from all, to be sure—pointing out what is often referred to as “black-on-black crime” in Chicago has become the preferred shorthand for castigating ineffectual liberalism, reinforcing racial wedges and feigning a concern for crime victims—even when their voting records paint a different picture of their priorities.


https://chicagoist.com/2016/08/29/ho...nce_became.php

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

More than 100 TV ads from Republican candidates and conservative-aligned groups showed guns or used guns as a talking point this year,

Pull your head from the Sand

the GOP unwillingness to try to prevent these Crimes is the actual issue ..

And chicago has a Gang and Gun Issue .. but get back to me when there intent is shooting and killing children Wholesale ..

How And Why Chicago Violence Became Conservatives' Favorite Talking Point

and clearly yours

For a certain segment of conservative politicians and pundits—far from all, to be sure—pointing out what is often referred to as “black-on-black crime” in Chicago has become the preferred shorthand for castigating ineffectual liberalism, reinforcing racial wedges and feigning a concern for crime victims—even when their voting records paint a different picture of their priorities.


https://chicagoist.com/2016/08/29/ho...nce_became.php

if the democrats want to solve this and have the right ideas, why haven’t biden and the democrats in congress passed those solutions? Who’s stopping them? They run the show. Do you not get that?
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

if the democrats want to solve this and have the right ideas, why haven’t biden and the democrats in congress passed those solutions? Who’s stopping them? They run the show. Do you not get that?
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Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Because laws die at Mitches feet and two democrats will not work to eliminate the filibuster.
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which now did dems try to pass that mitch killed, which would have prevented this?

after this shooting, senate republicans proposed some
kind of school
safety bill that senate democrats killed. Funny that you didn’t complain about that.

And i agree with you that the gop is too stubborn on gums. Maybe we should have stricter purchase reuirements for the ar-15, tougher background checks or red flag laws? again, there are so many out there that such a law might not do much, but maybe it helps. little. maybe raise the age to 21.

But i don’t see the left doing anything except making political speeches, either

We have to be able to talk about what has been tried already, and whether or not it worked. We need to be able to talk honestly about what works and what doesn’t. Neither side can do that. We elect too many jerks on both sides.

But we need to be able to say out loud, that due to the fact that there are more guns out there right now than people living in the country, prospective gun laws aren’t the only aspect of this. There’s a lot more to it.

You almost never hear democrats discuss anything other than gun control, because that’s the aspect of this that polling shows is a political winner for them. Same with the right and opposing gun control.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

More than 100 TV ads from Republican candidates and conservative-aligned groups showed guns or used guns as a talking point this year,

Pull your head from the Sand

the GOP unwillingness to try to prevent these Crimes is the actual issue ..

And chicago has a Gang and Gun Issue .. but get back to me when there intent is shooting and killing children Wholesale ..

How And Why Chicago Violence Became Conservatives' Favorite Talking Point

and clearly yours

For a certain segment of conservative politicians and pundits—far from all, to be sure—pointing out what is often referred to as “black-on-black crime” in Chicago has become the preferred shorthand for castigating ineffectual liberalism, reinforcing racial wedges and feigning a concern for crime victims—even when their voting records paint a different picture of their priorities.


https://chicagoist.com/2016/08/29/ho...nce_became.php

chicago style violence claims way more lives than these mass shootings. John had the numbers

Your side ignores that, because it’s not a politically winning issue for them.

I’m not distorting anything. your side is. they spend all their energy on mass shootings because they think it helps them win elections.

They never talk about the much larger scale problem, because it makes their side look incompetent. Which, unfortunately for you, they are.

CT has had pure un checked
liberalism for decades. Sandy Hook happened here. Was that somehow the fault of republicans, who control nothing here in CT?

again, i’m reacting to actual results. You’re only reacting to what helps your ideology. Even now.
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[RIROCKHOUND]

Too much emotion on both sides and not wading through the thread, so this is likely one and done... This one hits close to the bone with a 3rd and 6th grader. Plus I am staying out of here in protest of ScottW fishing the keys for a month straight....

If I were the Dem in the senate, I would put up a clean bill with some of the topics presented here (background, waiting, etc). Get everyone on the record on each of these issues rather than a more convoluted bill trying to do everything.

I would recommend a book called 'Gunfight' by Ryan Busse. Interesting perspective (former gun company executive) on the cultural change in the last decade or so, particularly on the marketing of body armor/tactical gear/AR-type weapons etc. to couch commandos.. He has a Ted talk out there as well.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Too much emotion on both sides and not wading through the thread, so this is likely one and done... This one hits close to the bone with a 3rd and 6th grader. Plus I am staying out of here in protest of ScottW fishing the keys for a month straight....

If I were the Dem in the senate, I would put up a clean bill with some of the topics presented here (background, waiting, etc). Get everyone on the record on each of these issues rather than a more convoluted bill trying to do everything.

I would recommend a book called 'Gunfight' by Ryan Busse. Interesting perspective (former gun company executive) on the cultural change in the last decade or so, particularly on the marketing of body armor/tactical gear/AR-type weapons etc. to couch commandos.. He has a Ted talk out there as well.

i don’t think it can be denied that the look of the ar-15 fuels
the fantasies of a small number of very, very sick folks. that has to be part of this. but if we ban them going forward, given how many are out there, does it do anything? or do we confiscate the ones that are out there?

we had a nationwide assault weapons ban. they let it lapse, because it didn’t do anything. but that was before the rise of these couch commando mass killings, maybe it would have more of an impact now, on those?
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Mass shootings are so common that mayors now have a checklist for when one happens

Mayors have a checklist (Incident Response Plan) for a bunch of different things, well usually the EMA Director does or the PD Chief / FD Chief depending on purview. That have it for weather, shootings, IT issues, contageous outbreaks (pre-COIVD), and 99 other topics.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

how can there be a school that doesn’t have a kick system for christ’s sake?

i saw a report that an offf duty cop was getting a haircut. his wife and daughter were in the school. the wife texted him. he grabbed a shotgun from the barbers office ( it’s TX after all), went to the school, got his daughter out, got a bunch of other kids out, and apparently helped coordinate with CBP as they were entering.

i also hears a mom broke past police and got into the school somehow, and got her two kids out. the wall street journal reported that.

it’s hard to process it all. also hearing that some cops who appeared to be standing there doing nothing had actually been shot already. Lots more to learn.

Lock the god damn doors.
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I have seen some bad things, but as usual, first and second reports often wrong. Let's see what shakes out.

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I would recommend a book called 'Gunfight' by Ryan Busse. Interesting perspective (former gun company executive) on the cultural change in the last decade or so, particularly on the marketing of body armor/tactical gear/AR-type weapons etc. to couch commandos.. He has a Ted talk out there as well.

I recommend people consider that if anything has proven true over the past 10-15 years is that government is increasingly failing in protecting people, both parties, from security to Baby Formula, to your rights. The trend of our country and the world in general has become more turbulent, dangerous, and divided. There has been ZERO evidence to indicate this trend is going to reverse. The Games Have Yet To Begin.

So with all of the great jobs done by all the "experts", seems kinda foolish to turn all of your security over to them.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers. Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.
In states like Texas with no state-required background check, research has shown that 57% of private gun sales were done with no background check.
Around 80% of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes are obtained through transfers from unlicensed sellers. Including the purchase of his firearm by the Odessa/Midland mass shooter.
Texans overwhelmingly (79%) support universal background checks.

But it’s a mental health problem
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you’re dismissing the mental health problem because you don’t happen to like it. Utter failures in mental health policy are precisely why Newtown happened.

i’m totally fine with expanded background checks and probably ok with red flag laws although they’re ripe for abuse.

you’re also focused on the mass showings for political reasons, and completely ignoring garden variety handgun violence, which is irrefutably a much bigger problem.

that doesn’t mean we don’t consider your ideas about mass shootings. But like a dutiful liberal you only care about the smaller problem and ignore the issue hat claims far more lives. why can’t we address. both?

Because talking about the true causes of urban gun violence, is a political loser for the left, and you all know it. So it gets swept under the rug.

Black lives only matter when they help democrats win elections.

i think you have some good ideas. you’d have more good ideas, if you’d be willing to put down the Kool Aid and think outside the parameters of what liberalism tells you to think.

there’s good ideas in both sides. but both sides only talk about the good ideas that help them win elections. . both sides do it.
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