Ukraine

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

depends on your definition of long

some would include this "And then there was George W. Bush, who unnecessarily invaded Saddam’s Iraq—which had been severely weakened by Bush Sr.’s pounding of it a decade before—on a bunch of trumped up-accusations."

As much as the Iraq war was a tragic blunder all around at least you could argue we were up against an incredibly corrupt authoritarian regime. In Ukraine we’re talking about a mostly peaceful democracy.

Worst quote reportedly overheard from a Russian soldier: “We don’t know who to shoot, they all look like us.”

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

As much as the Iraq war was a tragic blunder all around at least you could argue we were up against an incredibly corrupt authoritarian regime. In Ukraine we’re talking about a mostly peaceful democracy.

2 for 2 stating the obvious today...good job!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Ukraine claims it's killed almost 3,000 Russian soldiers in the first 36 hours of the invasion.

As ever, you have to take these things with a grain of salt, but anything even remotely close to that number would be stunning – the US lost 4,431 in two decades in Iraq
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I am seeing enough that convinces me that number might be close to accurate. Ukraine's losses are also much higher than reported, but they are holding so far. Ballsy AF.

Originally Posted by wdmso

thermobaric rockets systems seen on their way

They've been doing a lot of Grads in different places but the Thermobaric weapons are an entire different level of bad.

Originally Posted by spence

I think it could go way beyond embarrassment. If there’s no clear path out through Ukraine he could drag other countries into this mess or just wage war on the West in general. Start stockpiling canned tuna.

True. Having the electricity off for a long time is not out of the question (cyber or worse) and we are always about 9 meals away from absolute mayhem.

[scottw]

good job....


During the phase of Russia’s troop buildup that began last fall, the White House presented evidence of Russia’s activities surrounding Ukraine to Qin Gang, China’s ambassador to the U.S., according to the New York Times. Instead of pressuring Moscow to back down, the Chinese government shared that intelligence with the Kremlin.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I am seeing enough that convinces me that number might be close to accurate. Ukraine's losses are also much higher than reported, but they are holding so far. Ballsy AF.

Conscripted troops with less training contribute to early losses

They've been doing a lot of Grads in different places but the Thermobaric weapons are an entire different level of bad.

Horrible weapon system. Horrible way to die



True. Having the electricity off for a long time is not out of the question (cyber or worse) and we are always about 9 meals away from absolute mayhem.

Choose your level of preparation...
I think German Chancellor is taking the lead here for a European led coalition. Might be NATO, but could involve non NATO countries as well. He had Polish PM and head of Lithuania in Berlin today. It would be best IMO if this were not US led response. American participation, in a significant way, but not at the head of the coalition.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by scottw

good job....


During the phase of Russia’s troop buildup that began last fall, the White House presented evidence of Russia’s activities surrounding Ukraine to Qin Gang, China’s ambassador to the U.S., according to the New York Times. Instead of pressuring Moscow to back down, the Chinese government shared that intelligence with the Kremlin.

I think this was good. They tried to get China to assist - no surprise they didn't , but it is good others know.

I think it is good that the Biden admin spilled a lot of beans on RUS leading up to this, including that VP had made its decisions. Too many important leaders with willing to ignore what was happening.

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Choose your level of preparation...
I think German Chancellor is taking the lead here for a European led coalition. Might be NATO, but could involve non NATO countries as well. He had Polish PM and head of Lithuania in Berlin today. It would be best IMO if this were not US led response. American participation, in a significant way, but not at the head of the coalition.

I think Poland should be leading, Germany is NOT yet to be trusted based on how they have behaved the past decade WRT Russia and their own defense.

[nightfighter]

Too bad about all that weaponry we left in Afghanistan...... Just imagine if that had been put in someone else's hands

[spence]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Too bad about all that weaponry we left in Afghanistan...... Just imagine if that had been put in someone else's hands

Seems like those stories while in know way insignificant were grossly overstated.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Too bad about all that weaponry we left in Afghanistan...... Just imagine if that had been put in someone else's hands

if Afghan fought like the Ukcrains (as we expected them and fight for Their Freedoms )after we left Biden would have been a Hero

But as we know it never happened

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I think this was good. They tried to get China to assist - no surprise they didn't , but it is good others know.

.

seems like we overestimated our influence with China, underestimated the relationship China has with Russia....Russian got all of our intelligence and a stronger alliance with and reassurances from China...not sure how that is good

maybe we can give putin our intelligence regarding china and taiwan and ask him to encourage them not to invade

[scottw]

is putin simply "wrecking Ukraine"?

pretty interesting from 2015