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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
10-26-2021, 08:01 AM
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#1
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,435
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Written by Dahleen Glanton
This Father’s Day, I’d like to do something that is long overdue. I’m going to praise African-American men.
Not my own father, who had a profound effect on my life, but the countless other black men who strive, even under the most challenging circumstances, to be good dads.
Some people will argue that such men are rare, or that they do not exist.
They blame the violence and other social ills of impoverished communities on the absence of black men in their children’s lives. They pretend as though single-parent homes are exclusive to African-Americans, and use this misinformation to make moral judgments about black women and the men who father their children.
They paint all black men with one broad stroke, as chronic baby-makers who abandon their responsibilities even before their children are born. And they paint the sons of these black men with the same brush, condemning them to repeat the mistakes learned from their birth fathers.
They ignore the accomplishments of men like Barack Obama, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, Dr. Ben Carson, baseball great Jackie Robinson, playwright August Wilson, Stevie Wonder and Malcolm X — all raised without their biological fathers in the home and became great men.
I could say that the common stereotype of the black man as a deadbeat father is only a myth. But the truth is much more sinister. It is a lie that was planted the moment black men set foot on American soil as slaves, and it has been cultivated for generations with plenty of help from the media.
Could some black men do a better job of raising their children? Absolutely. But so could some white men, Hispanic men, Asian men and others.
Studies have shown that a father’s involvement increases a child’s chances for academic success and reduces the chances of delinquency and substance abuse. But it is not a panacea for all the social issues that contribute to violence and other issues that plague poor African-American communities. Factors such as joblessness, economic disinvestment and institutional racism are beyond any father’s control.
It is indeed troubling, though, that nearly 70 percent of black children are born out of wedlock, according to government statistics. The number far exceeds the 29 percent of white children, 53 percent of Hispanic children and 12 percent of Asian children born in similar circumstances.
But marital status doesn’t tell the whole story.
Statistics also show that 36 percent of white males divorce. But no one questions their relationship with the children they leave behind. The truth is there is no evidence proving that black men who never married their child’s mother care less about their children than white men who divorced theirs.
Five years ago, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report that debunked several stereotypes about black fathers. According to the report, African-American dads, in fact, spend more time in their children’s day-to-day lives than those in other ethnic groups.
The survey, which was conducted by the National Center for Health Statistics, found that 70 percent of African-American fathers who live with young children bathed, diapered, dressed or helped their kids use the toilet every day, compared with 60 percent of white fathers and 45 percent of Latino fathers.
While all fathers, regardless of race, who live away from their children tend to spend less time with them, the study found that black fathers are no less involved in their children’s lives than other dads. More than half of black fathers talk to their kids about their day several times a week or more. That’s a higher percentage than white or Latino fathers who live apart from their children.
The Pew Research Center found similar evidence of black father involvement. Though black fathers are more likely to live apart from their children, 67 percent of them see their kids at least once a month, compared with 59 percent of white fathers and 32 percent of Hispanic fathers.
What can we surmise from this? There are lots of good African-American fathers out there.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-26-2021, 08:22 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Written by Dahleen Glanton
This Father’s Day, I’d like to do something that is long overdue. I’m going to praise African-American men.
Not my own father, who had a profound effect on my life, but the countless other black men who strive, even under the most challenging circumstances, to be good dads.
Some people will argue that such men are rare, or that they do not exist.
They blame the violence and other social ills of impoverished communities on the absence of black men in their children’s lives. They pretend as though single-parent homes are exclusive to African-Americans, and use this misinformation to make moral judgments about black women and the men who father their children.
They paint all black men with one broad stroke, as chronic baby-makers who abandon their responsibilities even before their children are born. And they paint the sons of these black men with the same brush, condemning them to repeat the mistakes learned from their birth fathers.
They ignore the accomplishments of men like Barack Obama, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, Dr. Ben Carson, baseball great Jackie Robinson, playwright August Wilson, Stevie Wonder and Malcolm X — all raised without their biological fathers in the home and became great men.
I could say that the common stereotype of the black man as a deadbeat father is only a myth. But the truth is much more sinister. It is a lie that was planted the moment black men set foot on American soil as slaves, and it has been cultivated for generations with plenty of help from the media.
Could some black men do a better job of raising their children? Absolutely. But so could some white men, Hispanic men, Asian men and others.
Studies have shown that a father’s involvement increases a child’s chances for academic success and reduces the chances of delinquency and substance abuse. But it is not a panacea for all the social issues that contribute to violence and other issues that plague poor African-American communities. Factors such as joblessness, economic disinvestment and institutional racism are beyond any father’s control.
It is indeed troubling, though, that nearly 70 percent of black children are born out of wedlock, according to government statistics. The number far exceeds the 29 percent of white children, 53 percent of Hispanic children and 12 percent of Asian children born in similar circumstances.
But marital status doesn’t tell the whole story.
Statistics also show that 36 percent of white males divorce. But no one questions their relationship with the children they leave behind. The truth is there is no evidence proving that black men who never married their child’s mother care less about their children than white men who divorced theirs.
Five years ago, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a report that debunked several stereotypes about black fathers. According to the report, African-American dads, in fact, spend more time in their children’s day-to-day lives than those in other ethnic groups.
The survey, which was conducted by the National Center for Health Statistics, found that 70 percent of African-American fathers who live with young children bathed, diapered, dressed or helped their kids use the toilet every day, compared with 60 percent of white fathers and 45 percent of Latino fathers.
While all fathers, regardless of race, who live away from their children tend to spend less time with them, the study found that black fathers are no less involved in their children’s lives than other dads. More than half of black fathers talk to their kids about their day several times a week or more. That’s a higher percentage than white or Latino fathers who live apart from their children.
The Pew Research Center found similar evidence of black father involvement. Though black fathers are more likely to live apart from their children, 67 percent of them see their kids at least once a month, compared with 59 percent of white fathers and 32 percent of Hispanic fathers.
What can we surmise from this? There are lots of good African-American fathers out there.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf |
"Some people will argue that such men are rare, or that they do not exist."
No one ever, ever said that good black dads don't exist. Pete, you yourself do this all the time, you respond to something no one ever said.
(1) 75% of black babies are born without a father.
(2) kids, especially boys, need a good strong Dad.
Again, I don't post those things because it supports a cause of mine. I post them because they are obviously true
"70 percent of African-American fathers who live with young children bathed, diapered, dressed or helped their kids use the toilet every day"
Irrelevant. No ne is saying that black fathers who are there, aren't doing a good job. The problem is too many kids don't have a dad.
Duh.
"there is no evidence proving that black men who never married their child’s mother care less about their children than white men who divorced theirs."
Again, no one is making that claim, so who cares.
"Though black fathers are more likely to live apart from their children, 67 percent of them see their kids at least once a month"
Wow!! Seeing your kid once a month!! I'm so impressed!! I was all worried about nothing!
Kids born to poverty in urban cities (disproportionately black) REALLY need good strong dads. And most of those kids don't have them, which is the best guarantee in the world, of continuing the cycle of poverty.
What a profoundly stupid post.
And you proved my point. For political reasons, you're willing to deny what the real problem is. Which means, you don't care about fixing the problem. You thought you were refuting me, when of course you did the opposite. The exact opposite. You'd rather feel like you won a political argument with a nobody who you'll never meet, than just admit the glaringly obvious. You can't admit the glaringly obvious unless it supports liberalism.
Seeing your kid once a month makes you a responsible dad. Give me a f-cking break. You're beyond stupid. If a liberal said "the earth is flat", that's good enough for you. You think the rates of seeing your child once a month, is a barometer for whether or not a group has good dads.
All kids, of all races, need good dads. The consequences of fatherlessness don't differ much by race. But fatherlessness is WAY more rampant in the black community than it is for other races.
For Gods sake Pete, if racism was a big factor in anything, why are Asians the most economically successful ethnicity in the country? Asians are wealthier than whites. How could that possibly happen in a nation of white supremacists?
Answer - Asian culture places huge importance on strong families, and the incredible power of education and hard work. That's it. Nothing to do with race. Zip.
Last edited by Jim in CT; 10-26-2021 at 08:57 AM..
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10-26-2021, 09:07 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
No one ever, ever said that good black dads don't exist. Pete, you yourself do this all the time, you respond to something no one ever said.
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pete hears things a lot...it gives him the opportunity to go find lots of words to cut and paste....it's like virtual scrapbooking or something |
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10-26-2021, 09:18 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
pete hears things a lot...it gives him the opportunity to go find lots of words to cut and paste....it's like virtual scrapbooking or something
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they all do it. the author of that stupid article sure did it.
i guess it’s the only card you have left, when you know that you can’t respond to what someone actually said, without embarrassing yourself
they never, ever respond to the question why, if were a racist country, asians do better than whites
And one side has had enough of how well asians are doing, and is now illegally denying asian students admission to elite schools. it ain’t conservatives doing that.
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10-26-2021, 09:19 AM
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#5
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,435
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-26-2021, 10:14 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
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your video presumes that huge numbers of unmarried dads, provide the same “father” experience, as dads in the hime.
are you stupid enough to believe that? all those black babies born in the city to teenage girls, you’re saying those biological fathers are the same father figure, as the average dad who is married and in the home?
do you honestly believe that kids born out of wedlock have the same average “father” experience as kids born with a dad in the hime? are you that stupid? just because someone says it in a video, means it’s true?
go to an urban high school
sometime, ask the teachers about the dads they see at parent teacher conferences. and the dads they never see.
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10-26-2021, 10:28 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
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what bullsh*t!
at the 2:06 mark, the video shows a graph for a split second ( didn’t want to leave it up too long i guess), which shows by race, the % of dads who are involved with their children. blacks did great compared to whites.
then very quickly, it showed the stats by race, for dads who arent in the home. and that also showed that blacks compare well to whites.
what the narrator conveniently ignored, was that if you compare the stats on contact with children for dads in the home to dads out of the home, there was a huge decrease in the percentage of dads that were involved. that huge decrease was true for all races. and it’s common sense that would be the case. it’s hard to be an involved parent when you aren’t there. regardless of race.
i’m not saying black dads who aren’t in the home, are more neglectful than white dads who aren’t in the home. no one is saying that.
what i am saying ( and which your own video shows) is that when dads aren’t in the home, REGARDLESS OF RACE, they are much less likely to be a good, involved dad. your video explicitly confirms this at the 2:06 mark.
so my statement ( dads not in the home usually aren’t involved dads) is true, your own post confirms it.
and we know that black kids are far less likely to have a dad in the home.
but those two stats together, and you get the obvious truth that black kids are less likely to have a good, involved dad, because they’re less likely to have a dad in the home. that’s the fatherlessness holocaust in our cities.
lack of a dad in the house is bad, regardless of race. but it’s a much bigger issue for blacks, because of the rates of fatherlessness.
Yeah Pete, you’ve really got me in the ropes! Have mercy!
go to the 2:06 mark, look at the graphs on the left ( how i combed are dads in the home) compare to the graph on the right ( how involved are dads who aren’t in the home).
Idiot.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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10-27-2021, 08:53 PM
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#8
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
For Gods sake Pete, if racism was a big factor in anything, why are Asians the most economically successful ethnicity in the country? Asians are wealthier than whites. How could that possibly happen in a nation of white supremacists?
Answer - Asian culture places huge importance on strong families, and the incredible power of education and hard work. That's it. Nothing to do with race. Zip.
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You never said……..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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10-28-2021, 05:55 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
You never said……..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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where in there, did i say blacks are only good for sports?
i’ll ask you another simple question which you’ll
dodge.
if blacks had tight knit families and embraced their
kids’ education and work ethic like asians, do you not think blacks would do as well as asians? if not, why not?
i’m saying any group, regardless of race, who makes the wrong decisions, will struggle. any group who makes the right decisions, regardless of race, will do fine.
the data is clear, blacks ( for whatever reason) aren’t making the productive decisions as frequently as other races. That’s why they aren’t thriving to the same degree as other races.
if it’s racism, how come black immigrants are doing so
much better the. american born blacks? how could you possibly explain that?
i’m friendly with the family that runs the shell station in my town, i go
i’m the convenience store a lot. they came from africa with nothing, mother father and two
kids who are now in college. he was the first person i ever heard say, that his kids ( being black) were better off being born in africa and coming here as immigrants, than if they were born here. there’s some american cultural force that is pushing blacks to make unproductive decisions. liberalism is absolutely a part of it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Last edited by Jim in CT; 10-28-2021 at 06:15 AM..
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10-28-2021, 08:15 AM
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#10
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
i’m saying any group, regardless of race, who makes the wrong decisions, will struggle. any group who makes the right decisions, regardless of race, will do fine.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Bingo
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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10-28-2021, 08:19 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,403
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT;1216607
if blacks had tight knit families and embraced their
kids’ education and work ethic like asians, do you not think blacks would do as well as asians?
[size=1
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device[/size]
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Another statement for the history books
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/
You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.
Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing
You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
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10-28-2021, 09:43 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Another statement for the history books
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/
You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.
Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing
You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
more than 70% of black kids are born without a dad in the home.
is that a fact? or have i been indoctrinated?
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10-28-2021, 09:51 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Another statement for the history books
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/
You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.
Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing
You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan."
Democrats weren't the party of slavery and segregation? Then who was? The Whigs? The Tories?
"They admire Mussolini and Hitler"
I obviously never said anything like that...
"Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing "
Yet I can list major issues on which I think conservatives are 100% wrong and liberals are 100% right. Show me that you're not the radical, indoctrinate done. Go ahead, tell us which major policy issues, you think liberals are 100% wrong on, and conservatives are 100% correct on.
If you can't list any, I'm pretty sure that means you're the radical, and I'm the moderate. You can't criticize liberals in favor of a conservative, ever. But you're not radical or indoctrinated? |
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10-28-2021, 09:54 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Another statement for the history books
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
'Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ans-and-blacks
https://www.brookings.edu/research/a...eneralization/
You’ve been radicalized to believe Liberals are responsible for racism, slavery, and the Ku Klux Klan. They admire Mussolini and Hitler, and modern liberalism is little different from fascism or, even worse, communism. The mainstream media and academia cannot be trusted because of the pervasive, totalitarian nature of liberal culture.
Jim you have been completely indoctrinated by the right wing
You regurgitation of these talking points over and over . Is clear evidence … you’re down the rabbit hole .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
From one of your links...
" It is certainly true that treated as a whole group, Asian-Americans appear to be doing well. Relative to other racial and ethnic minorities, they live in wealthier neighborhoods, have high marriage rates, high levels of educational achievement, and are successful in the labor market."
Proving me 100% correct.
" Asian-Americans are more likely to believe that academic achievement results from greater effort, rather than greater skill. This belief can in fact explain a large part of the superior academic outcomes for Asian-Americans, according to some studies. Believing that hard work pays off, Asian-American students work harder—and, for them, it pays off."
Also proving me 100% correct.
Did you not read these?
" Asian-Americans live near better schools. This explanation for higher achievement is of course a rather boring one, compared to appeals to culture. But it suggests that policymakers would do better to promote higher-performing schools than worry too much about promoting “Asian values.”
Idiotic (its not random that asians live near better schools, it's because they are wealthy), but even if you assume that's valid, its a great argument for school choice. Which party supports school choice, and which party opposes school choice, Wayne?
" But there are wide differences between different Asian-American groups. Many are struggling economically;"
Obviously true. No one ever said all asians are identical. We're making broad generalizations here. Not all blacks are identical, not all whites are identical.
" The Asian groups faring poorly are those living in areas with poorer quality schools—similar, in fact, to those in which African Americans live"
Again, a superb argument in favor of school choice.
Wayne, you think any of that proves me wrong somehow?
If you stay in school, work hard, don't have kids until you are married, then regardless of race, it's very very unlikely you will be poor.
If you don't like that fact, that's your problem. If racism was a big deal, the data would show that blacks don't escape poverty when they follow those rules. But the data is clear, blacks enjoy similar benefits when they make productive decisions. That doesn't mean there's zero racism, but it's not a big deal.
Last edited by Jim in CT; 10-28-2021 at 10:02 AM..
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10-28-2021, 08:32 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
From one of your links...
"It is certainly true that treated as a whole group, Asian-Americans appear to be doing well. Relative to other racial and ethnic minorities, they live in wealthier neighborhoods, have high marriage rates, high levels of educational achievement, and are successful in the labor market."
Proving me 100% correct.
"Asian-Americans are more likely to believe that academic achievement results from greater effort, rather than greater skill. This belief can in fact explain a large part of the superior academic outcomes for Asian-Americans, according to some studies. Believing that hard work pays off, Asian-American students work harder—and, for them, it pays off."
Also proving me 100% correct.
Did you not read these?
"Asian-Americans live near better schools. This explanation for higher achievement is of course a rather boring one, compared to appeals to culture. But it suggests that policymakers would do better to promote higher-performing schools than worry too much about promoting “Asian values.”
Idiotic (its not random that asians live near better schools, it's because they are wealthy), but even if you assume that's valid, its a great argument for school choice. Which party supports school choice, and which party opposes school choice, Wayne?
"But there are wide differences between different Asian-American groups. Many are struggling economically;"
Obviously true. No one ever said all asians are identical. We're making broad generalizations here. Not all blacks are identical, not all whites are identical.
"The Asian groups faring poorly are those living in areas with poorer quality schools—similar, in fact, to those in which African Americans live"
Again, a superb argument in favor of school choice.
Wayne, you think any of that proves me wrong somehow?
If you stay in school, work hard, don't have kids until you are married, then regardless of race, it's very very unlikely you will be poor.
If you don't like that fact, that's your problem. If racism was a big deal, the data would show that blacks don't escape poverty when they follow those rules. But the data is clear, blacks enjoy similar benefits when they make productive decisions. That doesn't mean there's zero racism, but it's not a big deal.
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If you stay in school, work hard, don't have kids until you are married, then regardless of race, it's very very unlikely you will be poor.
That’s great but nothing close to what you’ve posted ..,
Maybe you should have just started and finished with that
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10-29-2021, 08:40 AM
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#16
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,435
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The rhetoric and propaganda about critical race theory is bull#^&#^&#^&#^&. I might have said the same thing 5-7 yrs ago, but then I opened my eyes and listened to black Americans. What the right paints as critical race theory is nothing but a long overdue course correction in how we teach American history. It’s time for white America to listen for a change.
Telling the truth about history is not racist. Watering down and white washing history making this country look like saints (when we are FAR from it) is racist.
MURIIICAAA at it’s finest
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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