No lockdown, no masks, nNo hysteria... NO PROBLEM: Sweden didn't go into a lockdown a

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Are you seriously trying to suggest because we don’t ban cars to prevent less than 40,000 deaths yearly, that we shouldn’t have closed down like we did? That’s an argument you could never win. First those 40K car deaths aren’t all due to cars, many are due to alcohol, animal strikes or just driver fatigue. We will I’m sure surpass 200,000 deaths soon and that’s WITH a partial to full (depending on local government) shut down, I can’t even imagine the death toll if we hadn’t shut down. If you are making the case that the old, the medically vulnerable, or the brave first responders should have been sacrificed so the economy didn’t crash, Trump would in the back of his self centered pea brain probably wish that were the track they took.

What I said, is that there are MANY cases where we accept that a meaningful (and fully preventable) number of deaths will occur, in order to maintain a quality of life. But we aren't willing to maintain or normal way of life for covid. I'm not saying the lockdowns were wrong, I don't know, too many "experts" contradicting each other for me to say anything with any confidence. But I can make a valid case that we make many public policy decisions that we know will result in American deaths. The reason we don't do it, is because we don't want to deal with the imposition on our lives.

"those 40K car deaths aren’t all due to cars"

but the deaths would be avoided if there were no cars. Not all covid deatsh are strictly related to covid either. We know there has been overcounting, and we know some were already very sick and didn't have long to live anyway.

You're not refuting my case.

"We will I’m sure surpass 200,000 deaths soon and that’s WITH a partial to full (depending on local government) shut down, I can’t even imagine the death toll if we hadn’t shut down."

Yet some countries didn't shut down, and don't have death rates that exceeded ours. Lots of moving pieces, and I don't understand the science enough to conclude the correlation between lockdowns and lives saved. But the existence of countries that didn't lock down and have low death rates, appear to contradict your assumption that death rates decrease with the magnitude of the lockdowns. CT and NY have brutal lockdowns and some of the highest death rates in the nation.

Also, in the worst flu season ever, we never discussed for a second, these kinds of shutdowns.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

What I said, is that there are MANY cases where we accept that a meaningful (and fully preventable) number of deaths will occur, in order to maintain a quality of life. But we aren't willing to maintain or normal way of life for covid. I'm not saying the lockdowns were wrong, I don't know, too many "experts" contradicting each other for me to say anything with any confidence. But I can make a valid case that we make many public policy decisions that we know will result in American deaths. The reason we don't do it, is because we don't want to deal with the imposition on our lives.

"those 40K car deaths aren’t all due to cars"

but the deaths would be avoided if there were no cars. Not all covid deatsh are strictly related to covid either. We know there has been overcounting, and we know some were already very sick and didn't have long to live anyway.

You're not refuting my case.

"We will I’m sure surpass 200,000 deaths soon and that’s WITH a partial to full (depending on local government) shut down, I can’t even imagine the death toll if we hadn’t shut down."

Yet some countries didn't shut down, and don't have death rates that exceeded ours. Lots of moving pieces, and I don't understand the science enough to conclude the correlation between lockdowns and lives saved. But the existence of countries that didn't lock down and have low death rates, appear to contradict your assumption that death rates decrease with the magnitude of the lockdowns. CT and NY have brutal lockdowns and some of the highest death rates in the nation.

Also, in the worst flu season ever, we never discussed for a second, these kinds of shutdowns.

I can’t say for certainty, but I would bet countries that didn’t shut down and did reasonably well, are not full of the selfish it’s all about me and my rights and my fun American youth. If we didn’t lock down I’d bet the numbers would be really high and the shut down would have been required even if late and the damages far worse.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I can’t say for certainty, but I would bet countries that didn’t shut down and did reasonably well, are not full of the selfish it’s all about me and my rights and my fun American youth. If we didn’t lock down I’d bet the numbers would be really high and the shut down would have been required even if late and the damages far worse.

You may well be right. But then why did NY allow anti police protests?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You may well be right. But then why did NY allow anti police protests?

I thought I addressed that, because it’s our right.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I thought I addressed that, because it’s our right.

No. NYC banned all large gatherings, except for anti police protests. So please point me to the section of the constitution, which specifies that the right to assembly can be rescinded except for assemblies which help democrats win elections? Diblasio said very explicitly, that liberal protesters had the right, but no one else did.

Defend that.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No. NYC banned all large gatherings, except for anti police protests. So please point me to the section of the constitution, which specifies that the right to assembly can be rescinded except for assemblies which help democrats win elections? Diblasio said very explicitly, that liberal protesters had the right, but no one else did.

Defend that.

If Trump pulled the trigger on some foreign engagement that brought protesters out in numbers, I have no doubt N.Y. would have been forced to allow it if the numbers were of the same size. The same would have been true in any other state, if the movement of the time brings people out in the streets there is little enforcement can do provided its peaceful, in spite of Covid restrictions. The looters and fu*ck heads destroying property are just idiots, they are doing exactly what a Trump wants them to do (think on that for a minute), the more they burn, destroy and ruin the livelihoods of local citizens, the more Trump takes pleasure (still pondering that) in pointing his law and order finger to say see what’s coming if you don’t elect me. He stokes it and he loves to see the rioting, it’s perfect campaign fodder for him and his base.