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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:56 AM   #1
Jim in CT
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Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Telling someone you don’t want to discuss a possible policy till after you are elected is the same as telling someone who you are withholding aid from to “do me a favor” and look into Biden etc. We will have a great relationship yada yada

The difference is the latter is indictable.
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both men asked foreign governments to take policy action which would benefit them politically. is that true or false?

when george w bush got a coalition of nations to help us in Iraq, that helped him politically. should he have been impeached because he asked foreign governments do something, which had the benefit of helping him politically?

for every talking head who says it’s impeachable, there’s someone who says it isn’t. it’s not anything close to objective or factual.
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:43 AM   #2
JohnR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F. View Post
Telling someone you don’t want to discuss a possible policy till after you are elected is the same as telling someone who you are withholding aid from to “do me a favor” and look into Biden etc. We will have a great relationship yada yada

The difference is the latter is indictable.
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Highlighted: The reason that is highlighted is due to how fast CNN twisting facts goes viral.

CNN on video uses the first part of the quote where Trump asks "to do a favor" and then CNN states that Trump is asking Zelensky to look into Biden. But the Transcript shows Trump asking Zelensky to look into Crowdstrike (which has its own issues) and the DNC server from 2016.

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Old 09-26-2019, 09:02 AM   #3
Pete F.
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Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
Highlighted: The reason that is highlighted is due to how fast CNN twisting facts goes viral.

CNN on video uses the first part of the quote where Trump asks "to do a favor" and then CNN states that Trump is asking Zelensky to look into Biden. But the Transcript shows Trump asking Zelensky to look into Crowdstrike (which has its own issues) and the DNC server from 2016.
John, I edited that to make it shorter, likely CNN did the same.

There is no "smoking gun" here, nor does there need to be.

There are three main issues that stand out regarding the Memo and Trump's behavior

1. The question of a possible quid pro quo.

Days before the call, Trump ordered his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to freeze a substantial package of military aid to Ukraine—a move that reportedly baffled and concerned officials in both the State and Defense Departments. Now consider how Trump sets the stage for his conversation with Zelensky by framing the U.S.-Ukrainian relationship in terms of reciprocity, suggesting that “the United States has been very good to Ukraine” but Ukraine may not have adequately reciprocated.

Thus when Zelensky comes in with his ask—for the president’s support for Ukrainian efforts to acquire defensive equipment from the United States—Trump is ready. He immediately pivots to an ask of his own, telling Zelensky that “I would like you to do us a favor though[.]”

But the favor in question is not a policy favor for the United States. It’s a political favor for Trump. This is where Trump raises the issue of Crowdstrike, asking Zelensky to “find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine.” Recall that the conspiracy theory regarding Crowdstrike involves casting doubt on whether Russia really hacked the DNC and, thus, on whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election at all. Trump appears to be asking for Zelensky’s help in amplifying this theory—which supports Trump’s understanding of the Mueller probe as a “Witch Hunt”—and finding evidence to support it. His request for a “favor”—immediately after Zelensky references a prospective purchase—is easily understood as the president’s connecting the U.S.’s provision of defensive equipment to Zelinsky’s willingness to assist Barr on a matter of personal concern to the president.

2. The clear evidence that the president solicited the Ukrainian president to deliver dirt on U.S. persons in a gross abuse of their civil liberties.

3. A clear attempt at soliciting foreign government intervention in a U.S. presidential campaign.

When Zelensky responds positively, stating that “all the investigations will be done openly and candidly,” Trump digs in further with another request: “[W]hatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great,” he says, pushing Zelensky to commit to investigating Hunter Biden and Joe Biden. He requests repeatedly that Zelensky speak to Giuliani, who at this time was publicly calling for the Ukrainians to investigate the Bidens.

To really understand the issues, a look at the timeline and the actors involved is needed. Lawfare did a timeline that looks to be complete.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/timeline...kraine-scandal

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Old 09-29-2019, 10:41 AM   #4
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John, I edited that to make it shorter


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