But there's no income inequality

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Possibly you could ask Abraham Lincoln or Tucker Carlson about the difference between labor and capital.

Can you have one without the other and does balancing the two have any value.
Lincoln said “ Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
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i don’t have an issue with tweaking capital gains and dividend tax rates.

my point was, and i’m correct, that no one would
be better off if the
billionaires all burned their money.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i don’t have an issue with tweaking capital gains and dividend tax rates.

my point was, and i’m correct, that no one would
be better off if the
billionaires all burned their money.
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It’s called trickle up economics. It’s what made the middle class a powerhouse in the 50s
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

It’s called trickle up economics. It’s what made the middle class a powerhouse in the 50s
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come on. what made the
middle
class was the fact that american manufacturing was king. that made the middle class. we
manufactured everything.
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

come on. what made the
middle
class was the fact that american manufacturing was king. that made the middle class. we
manufactured everything.
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What did ceos and owners earn in proportion to their employees then vs now. What changed in tax laws to make this extreme difference now?

Think hard. You can do it.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

What did ceos and owners earn in proportion to their employees then vs now. What changed in tax laws to make this extreme difference now?

Think hard. You can do it.
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it’s not ceos that destroyed the middle class. i did the math for walmart, if their ceo worked for free and gave his pay to the US workers, it worked out to like $35 a year. big whoop. ceo pay is disgusting, but it’s not a big line item on the balance sheet for a large company.

that’s what ‘thinking’ looks like. put down your copy of Chairman Maos Little Red Book and try it. stop crying about what someone else has. they aren’t taking anything away from you.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

come on. what made the
middle
class was the fact that american manufacturing was king. that made the middle class. we
manufactured everything.
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That’s because there was a higher value for labor then there is today. Guess what, the world evolved and we have to adapt.

You keep clamoring that creating wealth doesn’t take from the poor but that’s not really true. As the old adage goes, it takes money to make money. All the security and infrastructure that the taxpayer funds via government benefits the wealthy much more than the rest even considering their contributions. That’s a big reason why wealth inequality has continued to shift dramatically for the last 50 years and why the often brilliant Nebe noted wages for most working people are flat since the 1970s.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

That’s because there was a higher value for labor then there is today. Guess what, the world evolved and we have to adapt.

You keep clamoring that creating wealth doesn’t take from the poor but that’s not really true. As the old adage goes, it takes money to make money. All the security and infrastructure that the taxpayer funds via government benefits the wealthy much more than the rest even considering their contributions. That’s a big reason why wealth inequality has continued to shift dramatically for the last 50 years and why the often brilliant Nebe noted wages for most working people are flat since the 1970s.
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you provided zero evidence thatbthe wealthy, writ large, arevtaking from the poor. everyone has the same access to roads and infrastructure.

yes it takes
money to make
money. but the wealthy don’t generally steal their seed
money, they inherit it. big difference.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

That’s because there was a higher value for labor then there is today. Guess what, the world evolved and we have to adapt.

You keep clamoring that creating wealth doesn’t take from the poor but that’s not really true. As the old adage goes, it takes money to make money. All the security and infrastructure that the taxpayer funds via government benefits the wealthy much more than the rest even considering their contributions. That’s a big reason why wealth inequality has continued to shift dramatically for the last 50 years and why the often brilliant Nebe noted wages for most working people are flat since the 1970s.
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you’re saying security and infrastructure caused the pullback
ifnthe middle class?

wow..
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re saying security and infrastructure caused the pullback
ifnthe middle class?

wow..
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Huh?
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

the often brilliant Nebe noted wages for most working people are flat since the 1970s.

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yet the modern average family struggling to make ends meet still has big screen tvs, cable/statellite, several cell phones, multiple gas guzzling cars, kids in expensive club sports, eat out more that any 70's family, have you seen what the average American family spends on Christmas?....in the 70's NOBODY in my neighborhood owned a new car or went on vacation very often and it was a pretty average neighborhood...you wanna go back to the 70's...Eben just likes the clothes

[Rmarsh]

Originally Posted by scottw

yet the modern average family struggling to make ends meet still has big screen tvs, cable/statellite, several cell phones, multiple gas guzzling cars, kids in expensive club sports, eat out more that any 70's family, have you seen what the average American family spends on Christmas?....in the 70's NOBODY in my neighborhood owned a new car or went on vacation very often and it was a pretty average neighborhood...you wanna go back to the 70's...Eben just likes the clothes

Scott...I have to agree. Growing up poor in the 50's and 60's, my seven brothers and sisters and I were not poor but, our clothes were hand-me downs or from thrift shops, we never went out to eat anywhere, one car for my Dad to get to work, we ate mostly loaves of old bread that gets taken off the shelves. our shoes got new heels put on when they wore out. Most of all the kids I knew were skin and bone thin, overweight kids were a rarity. My parents would not accept welfare and felt the financial burden for raising us was their responsibility.


Knowing that I would never have anything unless I worked very hard for it, I worked and saved and at age 20 I bought and paid for an acre of land and the following year built a home on it for my bride and myself with no help from anyone. Glad I never got anything for free, I might have become a slacker.

Today I see so called poor people with all brand new clothes, sneakers, jewelry, cell phones, cars, getting their nails done, tatoos, buying booze, drugs, scratch tickets etc. and many, many of them are obese from all the junk food they eat.
I dont feel sorry for them...they feel entitled because look at all the rich people.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Rmarsh

.they feel entitled because look at all the rich people.

It is amazing to me, how obsessed the left is with rich people. Who cares?

The trick is wanting what you have, not having what you want. The jealousy and laziness and entitlement is astounding.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

yet the modern average family struggling to make ends meet still has big screen tvs, cable/statellite, several cell phones, multiple gas guzzling cars, kids in expensive club sports, eat out more that any 70's family, have you seen what the average American family spends on Christmas?....in the 70's NOBODY in my neighborhood owned a new car or went on vacation very often and it was a pretty average neighborhood...you wanna go back to the 70's...Eben just likes the clothes

This is also a good point, we spend WAY, WAY too much money on crap.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

come on. what made the
middle
class was the fact that american manufacturing was king. that made the middle class. we
manufactured everything.
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Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
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“communities are a necessary evil”.

gimme a break. you spout off all these vague generalizations which can’t be proven nor disproven. i worked at aetna, travelers, and the hartford, all
werenterrific
corporate citizens.

you are correct when you say companies are leaner and
more efficient. the downside is reductions in employee perks. what you
conveniently
left out, is that the upside
is lower prices. do you never ship
for the best price? how do you suppose “best price” happens?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

“communities are a necessary evil”.

gimme a break. you spout off all these vague generalizations which can’t be proven nor disproven. i worked at aetna, travelers, and the hartford, all
werenterrific
corporate citizens.

you are correct when you say companies are leaner and
more efficient. the downside is reductions in employee perks. what you
conveniently
left out, is that the upside
is lower prices. do you never ship
for the best price? how do you suppose “best price” happens?
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You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago based on several large insurance companies
50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60
Trucks cost less? $2318
Medical care costs less? Less than $500 per capita
Housing costs less? $26600 average
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60


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this is shameful...how was anyone supposed to live on this?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago based on several large insurance companies
50 years ago minimum wage was $1.60
Trucks cost less? $2318
Medical care costs less? Less than $500 per capita
Housing costs less? $26600 average
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"You think corporations on a whole are better citizens than they were 50 years ago "

No. But I think prices for most consumer goods are far cheaper, relative to average income. Corporations are leaner and more efficient, which means more stingy compensation for employees, but lower prices for consumers.

Pete, if I opened a pizzeria in your town, and I paid my bus boys and cashiers $15 an hour with benefits, a large pie would cost $40. Would you eat there? No.

People want low prices, and then complain when companies do what they have to do, to deliver low prices. You seem like you want low prices and generous employee compensation. I'd like to have a thick head of curly blond hair and washboard abs. But this is the real world, not a fantasy world. You can't have it both ways. Do you understand that prices are a function of costs?

There are a million ways to be comfortably middle class, you just need to be thoughtful, and avoid stupid decisions. Helps to have good parents.

Most goods cost less, relative to average income, not necessarily in absolute dollars. But not big items like housing and healthcare and college.

"wow your towing the party line hard "

Not even close. I said in another thread that we should increase capital gains and dividend tax rates. Pete, I disagree ALL THE TIME with conservatism. What are the biggest items, on which you disagree with liberals? Because I never see you do it.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Several things that made the middle class are different today.
People were trained and promoted from within.
Before we were married my wife rented an apartment in someone’s Vermont home that was the Head of one of the big brokerage houses on the NYSE
He started in the mailroom and worked his way up.
My father started in aerospace out of HS and worked his way up.
These guys knew what the people below them do and they were not just occupants of a cubicle.
Corporations acted as important members of communities and felt responsible to them and their employees and also their shareholders.
With the prevalence of the MBA
Shareholders have become #1 and employees and communities are just a somewhat necessary evil.
There were also strong unions that stood up for their members and increased wages and benefits which then raised opportunities across the board.
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Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
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What’s your point
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What’s your point
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He's showing the exception and selling it as the Rule its the conservative mantra everyone is one step from being a millionaire

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What’s your point
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My point is opportunity is there for those willing to give it a go.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Opportunity is still there. My friend is CEO of a fortune 100 company. His CFO is a man who came from India as child with $300 in his pocket. Smart guy,hard worker. Just another success story in the USA.
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my favorite story...the convenience store near my house is owned by a family from Liberia. mom, dad, two kids. i’d go in on sundays to fill
my tank
and get the sunday paper. the whole family was always in there, kids either working or studying. both kids got free rides to college. they came here with nothing, and their daughter is a doctor. they worked like dogs, and saw education as a gift from
god. he used to tell me, he couldn’t understand why liberals talk about what a crappy racist country this is. every town in the country has a family like that. i think he still works 6 days a week.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i don’t have an issue with tweaking capital gains and dividend tax rates.

my point was, and i’m correct, that no one would
be better off if the
billionaires all burned their money.
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You’re the only one I’ve ever heard suggest that as a solution for anything.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You’re the only one I’ve ever heard suggest that as a solution for anything.
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then what’s the problem with income inequality? why are rich people
part of the conversation, when talking anout ending poverty? they didn’t cause poverty, and they aren’t the cure.
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