Don Potus Corleone

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

You seem to miss the point of the use of Hitler/Trains and the plane ride. The following is from a Univ. of Oxford ethics professor:

Well, they say of Mussolini, at least he made the trains run on time.

Actually, that’s disputed, but that’s by-the-by. While watching the telly, I was struck by a remark of Scotland’s First Minister, Alex Salmond, on the resignation of the leader of Scotland’s Roman Catholic community, Cardinal Keith O’Brien following allegation of sexual misconduct. “It would be a great pity if a lifetime of positive work was lost from comment in the circumstances of his resignation”, said Salmond.

This was a few days ago, before O’Brien admitted to ‘misbehaviour’. Even so, it seemed to me to be a premature and injudicious remark. (And Salmond praised him in other comments too). We still don’t know much about the allegations against O’Brien, not do we know whether others will come forward with additional accusations. The scale of O’Brien’s ‘misbehaviour’ is, at the time of writing, unclear…he may well be guilty of not very much.

However, I would have thought we need such information before we can weigh it in the balance against his good deeds. No life is unrelentingly bad. Just as no life is incessantly good. All lives have at least some good and some bad. In some lives, the bad massively overshadows the good. In such circumstances, we tend – quite rightly in my view – to ignore the good. We do this on grounds of taste. We would object – again quite rightly, in my view – to a person who said “well yes, but putting aside the Jews and the gays, and the torture and the invasions and the war, Adolf did build some marvellous autobahns”. And similar comments would be misplaced even for criminals on a much smaller scale…“it would be a shame if in all the allegations of rape and assault we forgot Jimmy Savile’s tremendous contribution to popular television”.

As I say, we don’t know very much about the O’Brien case. But, sometimes it is not ‘a pity’ to disregard ‘positive work’. It’s the right thing to do.

Is it the right thing to do in the Trump case? Is there anything he has done as President comparable to what Hitler or Mussolini did as the political leaders of their countries that outweigh the good he has done with his policies? Or are there rapes and assaults in his personal life that outweigh his contributions?

Failed businesses, extra-marital affairs, typical shady or unethical deals so common to big business and big and little politicians (including the one he ran against for President)--these are the things that outweigh his good? Do you honestly believe that if the FBI had wanted to go after Hillary for anything in her past, or even for her handling of her emails, with the same intensity and vigor as they are doing with Trump, that they couldn't have found things for which to prosecute and convict her (or just about any other powerful, successful person)? If Trump is the standard for bad rather than good or usual, then we might as well bring down the whole Washington and local government establishments. And most other highly successful and powerful people.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is it the right thing to do in the Trump case? Is there anything he has done as President comparable to what Hitler or Mussolini did as the political leaders of their countries that outweigh the good he has done with his policies? Or are there rapes and assaults in his personal life that outweigh his contributions?

Failed businesses, extra-marital affairs, typical shady or unethical deals so common to big business and big and little politicians (including the one he ran against for President)--these are the things that outweigh his good? Do you honestly believe that if the FBI had wanted to go after Hillary for anything in her past, or even for her handling of her emails, with the same intensity and vigor as they are doing with Trump, that they couldn't have found things for which to prosecute and convict her (or just about any other powerful, successful person)? If Trump is the standard for bad rather than good or usual, then we might as well bring down the whole Washington and local government establishments. And most other highly successful and powerful people.

Quite a worldview
Not just limited to politicians,
most highly successful and powerful people would not survive an investigation?
Is this based on your life experience, facts or just your imagination?
You justify Trump by saying most people do that and therefore his behavior is normal.
I think he is far from the norm

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Quite a worldview
Not just limited to politicians,
most highly successful and powerful people would not survive an investigation?
Is this based on your life experience, facts or just your imagination?
You justify Trump by saying most people do that and therefore his behavior is normal.
I think he is far from the norm

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Being a highly successful and powerful person IS far from the norm. And power does corrupt.

And yes, most politicians are basically corrupted by the necessity to pretty much having to lie and make false promises to get elected, and by needing to grant favorable legislation to big, corrupt, donors. And by getting more and more "donations" as they get more powerful by staying in office and getting re-elected through the same corrupt system.

Let me ask you, do you not think that if Mueller were to investigate HRC in the same manner and intensity as he is investigating Trump, that he would find some convictable corruption to pin on her?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Being a highly successful and powerful person IS far from the norm. And power does corrupt.

And yes, most politicians are basically corrupted by the necessity to pretty much having to lie and make false promises to get elected, and by needing to grant favorable legislation to big, corrupt, donors. And by getting more and more "donations" as they get more powerful by staying in office and getting re-elected through the same corrupt system.

Let me ask you, do you not think that if Mueller were to investigate HRC in the same manner and intensity as he is investigating Trump, that he would find some convictable corruption to pin on her?

Most somewhat responsible politicians look at the possible results of an action based on some analysis of available data and choose the best selling outcome, they care enough to try and not be caught in a outright lie. Trump just doubles down.
What analysis led Trump to announce that Mexico would pay for the wall, he would eliminate the debt, NAFTA2.0 would pay for the wall, illegal immigration costs amounts that vary by day, etc.
I do think there is too much money and aggregated power in politics
HRC also could or would have been investigated, but we don’t typically do investigation of losers for political retribution in this country.
2020 and sealed indictments might somewhat change that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Most somewhat responsible politicians look at the possible results of an action based on some analysis of available data and choose the best selling outcome, they care enough to try and not be caught in a outright lie.

That's a polite way of describing their sneaky, lying, BS crap.

Trump just doubles down.

Yup. He doesn't hide his crap very well.

What analysis led Trump to announce that Mexico would pay for the wall, he would eliminate the debt, NAFTA2.0 would pay for the wall, illegal immigration costs amounts that vary by day, etc.

As Harry Reid might have put it referring to his BS, "She didn't win, did she?"

I do think there is too much money and aggregated power in politics
HRC also could or would have been investigated, but we don’t typically do investigation of losers for political retribution in this country.
2020 and sealed indictments might somewhat change that
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Apparently, we do investigations as political retribution for winners. And I think Mueller could have found plenty of stuff to convict HRC if he went about it with the same vigor and tactics he's using to get Trump.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Apparently, we do investigations as political retribution for winners. And I think Mueller could have found plenty of stuff to convict HRC if he went about it with the same vigor and tactics he's using to get Trump.

But that was not the job he was given, was it?
I’ve seen no credible evidence that Mueller cares about anything other than finding the truth and none in being on any other team.
Same motto as Superman, Truth, Justice and The American Way.
Trump’s biggest downfall will be that he has no idea how to recruit and grow a team, or lead one.
I’ve worked for a number of people in my life but never for a successful leader who would throw his hires under the bus. The best ones guide and keep you on the road to greatness with them.
Michael Cohen and the rest of Trump’s cronies wouldn’t be on that road or would have taken a early exit to a different path.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is it the right thing to do in the Trump case? Is there anything he has done as President comparable to what Hitler or Mussolini did as the political leaders of their countries that outweigh the good he has done with his policies? Or are there rapes and assaults in his personal life that outweigh his contributions?

Failed businesses, extra-marital affairs, typical shady or unethical deals so common to big business and big and little politicians (including the one he ran against for President)--these are the things that outweigh his good? Do you honestly believe that if the FBI had wanted to go after Hillary for anything in her past, or even for her handling of her emails, with the same intensity and vigor as they are doing with Trump, that they couldn't have found things for which to prosecute and convict her (or just about any other powerful, successful person)? If Trump is the standard for bad rather than good or usual, then we might as well bring down the whole Washington and local government establishments. And most other highly successful and powerful people.

You keep pointing out all the good he has done, mind spelling that all out for us dim witted individuals, because I'm pretty certain good and bad all depends on point of view. Seems like a lot of the good he claims he is doing keeps getting overruled in the higher courts, but he is keeping many states AG's busy for sure.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You keep pointing out all the good he has done, mind spelling that all out for us dim witted individuals, because I'm pretty certain good and bad all depends on point of view. Seems like a lot of the good he claims he is doing keeps getting overruled in the higher courts, but he is keeping many states AG's busy for sure.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...romise-keeping

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...romise-keeping

I tell you what, weed out the carryovers from the growing economy and good growth he inherited and then give me the list.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I tell you what, weed out the carryovers from the growing economy and good growth he inherited and then give me the list.

I tell you what, this carryover talking point bs is speculative and unsubstantiated. And if everything in Trump's first two years is carryover, then how can he be criticized for bad policy? The economy under Obama had a little bump then remained fairly static. It was statistically by some accounts set to get worse. It would be a big stretch to attribute the very dramatic shift upward under Trump to a mere carryover. And I posted a video in another thread that tore the carryover crap to shreds.

You asked for a list. I gave it to you.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I tell you what, this carryover talking point bs is speculative and unsubstantiated. And if everything in Trump's first two years is carryover, then how can he be criticized for bad policy? The economy under Obama had a little bump then remained fairly static. It was statistically by some accounts set to get worse. It would be a big stretch to attribute the very dramatic shift upward under Trump to a mere carryover. And I posted a video in another thread that tore the carryover crap to shreds.

You asked for a list. I gave it to you.

No you actually gave me someone else’s list, which sounds like it was written by and for the right and the sitting president.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

No you actually gave me someone else’s list, which sounds like it was written by and for the right and the sitting president.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So what?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...romise-keeping

not sure what policys were passed to amass theses accomplishments

but they sure threw out some obscure stuff

Led two National Prescription Drug Take Back Days in 2017 and 2018, collecting a record number of expired and unneeded prescription drugs each time.

OMG A 2A BAN? on his watch
New rule effectively banning bump stock sales in the United States.

U.S. oil production has achieved its highest level in American history
United States is now the largest crude oil producer in the world.

he did that?

Lifted a 15-year limit on veterans’ access to their educational

benefits only new servicemembers will see any of those changes.

I was told once

If you read enough about it you will find varying accounts

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

not sure what policys were passed to amass theses accomplishments

but they sure threw out some obscure stuff

Led two National Prescription Drug Take Back Days in 2017 and 2018, collecting a record number of expired and unneeded prescription drugs each time.

OMG A 2A BAN? on his watch
New rule effectively banning bump stock sales in the United States.

U.S. oil production has achieved its highest level in American history
United States is now the largest crude oil producer in the world.

he did that?

Lifted a 15-year limit on veterans’ access to their educational

benefits only new servicemembers will see any of those changes.

I was told once

If you read enough about it you will find varying accounts

Yeah, there are varying accounts. This is one of them. You can pick and choose what account suits your purpose.

One account gives Trump credit. And lo and behold, here come the naysayers with another account which, without proof, but loaded with conjecture, says he gets no credit.

The same goes on with every President. The previous administration gets credit for the good stuff, and the current administration gets blamed for the bad.

I was asked for a list. I gave it. You can shove it up your arse for all I care.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Yeah, there are varying accounts. This is one of them. You can pick and choose what account suits your purpose.

Thats was your list has done my examples are from your list not my own

One account gives Trump credit. And lo and behold, here come the naysayers with another account which, without proof, but loaded with conjecture, says he gets no credit.

no its base on history and past markets not sure how that is not proof in your eyes

The same goes on with every President. The previous administration gets credit for the good stuff, and the current administration gets blamed for the bad. (True but the lengths Trump fans go to claim his good deeds and ignore his misdeeds is unprecedented)

I was asked for a list. I gave it. You can shove it up your arse for all I care.Ouch

He said he will sign a crime bill ...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

..

True but the lengths Trump fans go to claim his good deeds and ignore his misdeeds is unprecedented .

it might be unprecedented for republicans, trump supporters and folks on the right ...though you don't have to look far to find folks on the right harshly critical of trump and his cronies..click on that conservative bastion National Review on any given day....

it's is not unprecedented for democrats and the left however, we've seen this all before...which is why the folks that you demand share your concerns don't seem to give a crap when you complain....this appears to be a tough concept for the left and media...for decades the left and liberal media have defended all of this behavior which they now find abhorrent....you are like former smokers or recovering alcoholics...or folks who recently found God....with this holier than thou attitude because you(the left generally) have suddenly seen the light...we know it's nothing more than partisan posturing...feigned indignation

it's pretty funny....

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

That's what your list has done, your examples are from your list not my own

They were valid examples which happened on his watch.

no it's based on history and past markets not sure how that is not proof in your eyes

You didn't point out any history or past markets.

True but the lengths Trump's fans go to claim his good deeds and ignore his misdeeds is unprecedented

Can you document that it is unprecedented? And if it were, by how much, and so what? Is there something evil about being unprecedented. Unprecedented lengths to show good deeds is bad? And why must you always throw in not pointing out the bad stuff? I wasn't asked to list bad stuff.

He said he will sign a crime bill ...

Tack on another goody.