Flynn

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

You know better than this.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No Spence, I do know better and I suspect several different avenues are possible and I want a proper investigation to get to the core truths.

You know how I feel WRT Russian Interference / Influence in the election, they did it and it was an operation that paid off their investment (and O should have hampered it but the effectiveness of a sternly worded letter dot dot dot) . This is what Russians do, the Soviets did (to the benefit of Dem party for decades) and what the Czars did before them (something a barely competent Secretary of State would know).

I do not think they "Hacked" the election tampering with voting machines. The Dems still effed up running Hillary who beat - or stole - from Marty from MD, The Missing Link, and a Commie. That is what cost the middle.

I believe DJT has more shadiness with RUS than what is confirmed and I also believe the Russians actively sprinkle false breadcrumbs for people to chase in addition to legit stuff. The Steele Dossier is parts truth and half truth mixed with pure make believe - which is far more effective at polluting the political environment than an all true document.

But I do not see a post-election transition team discussing things with the RUS as colluding. We do not have verifiable proof the DJT "colluded" with RUS to rig election or hack influence (like Wikileaks). The Mueller investigation has not provided proof that there was collusion.

Originally Posted by spence

To some, Clinton's improper use of private email is the same thing as colluding with the enemy to undermine your own government.

There ya go again with a little misdirection, and those some would be wrong. There is a difference between collusion (actively working with) and being numb nuts effing stupid with massive doses of hubris and political privilege placing significant amounts of data on unmanaged and unsecured servers for other nations' competent intelligence services to pluck from.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

and political privilege placing significant amounts of data on unmanaged and unsecured servers for other nations' competent intelligence services to pluck from.

and remember, Obama was conversing with her highness under a pseudonym on that unsecured server

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

But I do not see a post-election transition team discussing things with the RUS as colluding. We do not have verifiable proof the DJT "colluded" with RUS to rig election or hack influence (like Wikileaks). The Mueller investigation has not provided proof that there was collusion.

At this point I don't think it's the point of the Mueller investigation to provide proof for anything beyond what they have indicted. Certainly these plea agreements are not given as get out of jail free cards. They are evidence that further indictments are justified for more severe crimes.

There's also plenty of evidence that does indicate pre-election collusion did occur. Even if it wasn't substantial we do know for a fact there were attempts to collude with Russia and Wikileaks (i.e. Russia) to influence the election.

Roll this together with the Turkey connection to kidnap a dissident, attempts to influence US policy at the UN and lest we not forget Manefort's earlier efforts to set GOP policy relative to his cash payments...there's a lot to go on. Even if it's not 100%. And there's no Russian trickery in that calculation.