Hillary Email issues

[JohnR]

I listened to the press conference, I will post the transcript later and highlight key items. Had ANYONE else done that than the political uber elite they would have been prosecuted.

There will be significant protesting form the Intelligence Community.

The FBI has said either :

Nobody will be prosecuted for mishandling intelligence information if you say it was not intentional

or

The rules still apply to the peasants.

Both have significant, negative impacts on information storage.

Any thoughts on a 3rd possibility - those of you with a Security clearance (that can comment?)

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

The FBI has said either :

Nobody will be prosecuted for mishandling intelligence information if you say it was not intentional

or

The rules still apply to the peasants.

So can you inform us of all the significant cases where "peasants" were prosecuted for unintentional mishandling of intelligence information?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

So can you inform us of all the significant cases where "peasants" were prosecuted for unintentional mishandling of intelligence information?

Here ya go - I know you will find problems with it though

http://www.navytimes.com/story/milit...lker/30907091/

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Here ya go - I know you will find problems with it though

http://www.navytimes.com/story/milit...lker/30907091/

Because I like you I'll give you a mulligan. This is your oppy to bring some game...do it!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Because I like you I'll give you a mulligan. This is your oppy to bring some game...do it!

John Deutsch
Sandy Berger

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

John Deutsch
Sandy Berger

Deutsch? Nothing happened, he's still in good standing.

Berger? There you have intentional theft of classified material, lying about the theft and destruction of the documents. And for all that he got a slap on the wrist.

Swing, and a miss...

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Deutsch? Nothing happened, he's still in good standing...

Nothing happened? He lost his security clearance, which was unprecedented for someone in his position. And he was negotiating a plea deal with prosecutors at the time he was pardoned by President Clinton. By the way, no one from the CIA was consulted or informed that he was going to be pardoned on Clintons last day in office. I certainly wouldn't say he's in good standing.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

So can you inform us of all the significant cases where "peasants" were prosecuted for unintentional mishandling of intelligence information?

You don't need to show intent. She showed gross negligence.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

You don't need to show intent. She showed gross negligence.
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That's not how the law works.
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[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

That's not how the law works.
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Yes it is
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

That's not how the law works.
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This is a quote from the FBI director today....

"Our investigation looked at whether there is evidence classified information was improperly stored or transmitted on that personal system, in violation of a federal statute making it a felony to mishandle classified information either intentionally or in a grossly negligent way, or a second statute making it a misdemeanor to knowingly remove classified information from appropriate systems or storage facilities."

What part of "violation of a federal statute making it a felony to mishandle classified information.....in a grossly negligent way" don't you understand????



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[wdmso]

As I suspected Some are unable to accept she didn't commit a crime and is not going to jail and this saddens them .. for me the issues has never been what she and her people did wasn't stupid or irresponsible and I dont disagree with those who feel that way .. My argument has always against the Jail time crowd like birthers no mater the evidence it's in their heads

I only hope that those who hate Hillary would put the same effort looking into the Donald and his Trustworthiness experience his knowledge of world politics his Maybe Crimes and temperament to be POTUS.. and have the same frank conversation ..just an idea

[buckman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

As I suspected Some are unable to accept she didn't commit a crime and is not going to jail

That's not what the FBI determined at all however it does sadden me that she won't be going to jail ....for this crime at least .
I'm holding out hope that karma and justice eventually catch up to her .
Question ... Does it sadden you that she lied through her teeth ?
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

As I suspected Some are unable to accept she didn't commit a crime and is not going to jail and this saddens them .. for me the issues has never been what she and her people did wasn't stupid or irresponsible and I dont disagree with those who feel that way .. My argument has always against the Jail time crowd like birthers no mater the evidence it's in their heads

I only hope that those who hate Hillary would put the same effort looking into the Donald and his Trustworthiness experience his knowledge of world politics his Maybe Crimes and temperament to be POTUS.. and have the same frank conversation ..just an idea

Comey said she broke laws and the laws she broke are felonies, he said he did not have something that was prosecutable.

BTW - a lot of us that think Hillary is unfit to be president feel Trump is unfit to be president. So get off your high horse.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

As I suspected Some are unable to accept she didn't commit a crime and is not going to jail and this saddens them .. for me the issues has never been what she and her people did wasn't stupid or irresponsible and I dont disagree with those who feel that way .. My argument has always against the Jail time crowd like birthers no mater the evidence it's in their heads

Most of the anti-Hillary posters also believed that she would not be indicted, so that was accepted beforehand. Comay didn't say she didn't commit a crime. He said, essentially, that the evidence wasn't strong enough to successfully prosecute. The reason for that could be political as well as evidential since the Justice Dept. would have to prosecute. What he did say about what she did is very damning. For those of us who don't believe her, and Comay pointed out her obvious lies in the matter, the evidence he presented did show she violated the statute. But recommending indictment then having her acquitted by the Justice Dept. would not make the FBI look good.

I only hope that those who hate Hillary would put the same effort looking into the Donald and his Trustworthiness experience his knowledge of world politics his Maybe Crimes and temperament to be POTUS.. and have the same frank conversation ..just an idea

The anti-Hilary posters all have, looked negatively into the Donald's reputation, but a choice has to be made. Hillary already has a political resume which is one of failed policies and a rigid temperament to stick to and defend those policies, which should be enough to say no to her.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

What part of "violation of a federal statute making it a felony to mishandle classified information.....in a grossly negligent way" don't you understand????

He didn't say that was the finding, that was the initial inquiry...which they found didn't have sufficient evidence to prosecute.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

He didn't say that was the finding, that was the initial inquiry...which they found didn't have sufficient evidence to prosecute.

He stated that classified material WAS found on her server....

So SOMEONE is guilty of intentionally or negligently mis-handling classified material.

So who is it???
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

You don't need to show intent. She showed gross negligence.
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This is not what Comey said.

"In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here."

i.e. the felony standard for gross negligence was not met.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

This is not what Comey said.



i.e. the felony standard for gross negligence was not met.

Extreme carelessness !!
That is the definition of gross negligence .
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[DZ]

Originally Posted by spence

So can you inform us of all the significant cases where "peasants" were prosecuted for unintentional mishandling of intelligence information?

Spence - believe me as I have worked in this field all my working life. I've known plenty of examples where a silly mistake with classified information even with no "intent" has resulted in loss of job, security clearance, and those involved can never pass a background check again for government work. My guess is someone in Hillary's state dept office will be the fall guy and lose their job to protect her. I mean how can a potential POTUS not pass a background check?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by DZ

Spence - believe me as I have worked in this field all my working life. I've known plenty of examples where a silly mistake with classified information even with no "intent" has resulted in loss of job, security clearance, and those involved can never pass a background check again for government work. My guess is someone in Hillary's state dept office will be the fall guy and lose their job to protect her. I mean how can a potential POTUS not pass a background check?

and


I would venture to say she would not be able to pass a Top Secret Clearance Test at this point and how can you elect a candidate for President that doesn't have one?

[spence]

Originally Posted by DZ

Spence - believe me as I have worked in this field all my working life. I've known plenty of examples where a silly mistake with classified information even with no "intent" has resulted in loss of job, security clearance, and those involved can never pass a background check again for government work. My guess is someone in Hillary's state dept office will be the fall guy and lose their job to protect her. I mean how can a potential POTUS not pass a background check?

I'm note sure that's such a clean cut decision. Executives are often given more wiggle room on matters like this out of respect for the weight and complexities of their responsibilities...and in this case responsibilities born out of public service rather than shareholders.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm note sure that's such a clean cut decision. Executives are often given more wiggle room on matters like this out of respect for the weight and complexities of their responsibilities...and in this case responsibilities born out of public service rather than shareholders.

"Public Service " lmao
Yea she only got mega mega wealthy off her " public service "
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[DZ]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm note sure that's such a clean cut decision. Executives are often given more wiggle room on matters like this out of respect for the weight and complexities of their responsibilities...and in this case responsibilities born out of public service rather than shareholders.

So you agree that would be a double standard?

[spence]

Originally Posted by DZ

So you agree that would be a double standard?

I wouldn't say it's a double standard, rather there are other factors that may be considered or have more weight under certain circumstances. There's a lot of judgement involved which is why you hope the process is apolitical.