The French attack

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

No, but by abandoning Iraq he enabled ISIS to form and consolidate in strength.

That then started a cascade of events in Syria, with Obama supporting the anti al-Assad rebels, intensifying the civil war, which gave ISIS an opening to invade Syria, creating a humanitarian refugee crisis, allowing ISIS fanatics to sneak into western Europe.

Really, this is a big f*ckup.

There's so much wrong here I'm not sure where to begin.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

There's so much wrong here I'm not sure where to begin.

Fact - at the height of the Surge, Al Queda in Iraq was decimated. We have th ecommunications intercepts from their leaders, saying it was lost.

Fact - when Obama announced that he wasn't going to seek a SOF agreement, but was going to pull everyone out, many military experts advised him that bad things would happen in th evaccuum our departure would create. Ask the Cambodians if it's a coincidence that Pol Pot waited until we withdreew from Vietnam to start his genocide.

Fact - after we withdrew, ISIS filled that void.

Fact - Obama (who is always wrong, yet somehow never in doubt), called them "the junior varsity".

Fact - hours before the Paris attack, Obama said that ISIS was contained, and that among our successes, has been increased security at international airports. Incredibky, he said that, while the fuselage of the downed Russian plane was probably still smoldering. Did no one on his staff tell him that happened?

[Fly Rod]

We drop leaflets and warn that we will attack oil trucks in 1 hr....we do not kill anyone.....russia attacks oil fields and kills about 600 isis....maybe trump is right,let the russians do it...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

We drop leaflets and warn that we will attack oil trucks in 1 hr....we do not kill anyone.....russia attacks oil fields and kills about 600 isis....maybe trump is right,let the russians do it...

Right.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Fact - at the height of the Surge, Al Queda in Iraq was decimated. We have th ecommunications intercepts from their leaders, saying it was lost.

But it wasn't destroyed. al Qaeda in Iraq was suffering largely because we were PAYING Sunni militants to push back against it. That's not a long term strategy...

Fact - when Obama announced that he wasn't going to seek a SOF agreement, but was going to pull everyone out, many military experts advised him that bad things would happen in th evaccuum our departure would create. Ask the Cambodians if it's a coincidence that Pol Pot waited until we withdreew from Vietnam to start his genocide.

As we've discussed a million times (perhaps you need a million +1) there already was a SOF agreement in place per the Bush administration. The new Iraqi government wanted us out, and the Bush policy of de-Bathification is a key reason we didn't have reasonable options.

I'm not sure what Cambodia has to do with this. Are you suggesting we should have left a small residual force?

Fact - after we withdrew, ISIS filled that void.

Not really. The first void that ISIS was able to take advantage of was more a by-product of the Syrian civil war. The second void was created by the Iraqi government using Shiite troops to guard Sunnis in Mosul.

Fact - Obama (who is always wrong, yet somehow never in doubt), called them "the junior varsity".

He did, and at that time they were the JV. I don't think he wanted to give them any more cred than necessary.

Fact - hours before the Paris attack, Obama said that ISIS was contained, and that among our successes, has been increased security at international airports. Incredibky, he said that, while the fuselage of the downed Russian plane was probably still smoldering. Did no one on his staff tell him that happened?

The context for that remark clearly was that ISIS was not capturing new territory and in fact appears to be losing some critical ground. I think the timing of recent terror events are a result of this pressure.

ISIS knows they can't win if the key powers unite to destroy them. They need to stir up a global backlash against Islam. Listening to most of the GOP candidates it sounds like we're starting down that path.

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by spence

But it wasn't destroyed. al Qaeda in Iraq was suffering largely because we were PAYING Sunni militants to push back against it. That's not a long term strategy...

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-isis-fighters

How's that for strategy? $500 million for training and only 4 or 5 have entered the battle
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-isis-fighters

How's that for strategy? $500 million for training and only 4 or 5 have entered the battle
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Old news...how are the Kurds with US assistance doing now?

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by spence

... the Bush policy of de-Bathification ...

but but but but Bush

Newflash: ISIS leadership is comprised of Saddam Hussein's Baathist military and intelligence leadership.

Long and juicy article.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1029274.html

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

but but but but Bush

Newflash: ISIS leadership is comprised of Saddam Hussein's Baathist military and intelligence leadership.

Sorry if history isn't convenient. It was one of a LONG list of strategic blunders you want to blame Obama for not being able to magically fix.

And yes, ISIS was able to gain strength because the former Baathist military leadership...WAS OUT OF WORK.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by spence

Sorry if history isn't convenient. It was one of a LONG list of strategic blunders you want to blame Obama for not being able to magically fix.

And yes, ISIS was able to gain strength because the former Baathist military leadership...WAS OUT OF WORK.

You responded and haven't even read the article.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

You responded and haven't even read the article.

Where's the spanking emoji ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

You responded and haven't even read the article.

Didn't need to. The involvement of former Iraqi military leadership in ISIS is well known...

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by spence

There's so much wrong here I'm not sure where to begin.

And Washington D.C. disagrees with you.

This came out before the Paris attacks.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ebel-training/

Senators tell Obama to halt Syrian rebel training

By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times - Friday, October 2, 2015

President Obama’s program to train Syrian rebels is a total failure and needs to be scrapped, a bipartisan group of senators said in a letter to the administration Friday, saying it’s time the national security team acknowledge the disaster and come up with a new strategy.

As the centerpiece of Mr. Obama’s Syrian strategy, along with American airstrikes, the training has backfired — and some of the rebels the U.S. equipped turned around and struck a bargain to give ammunition and trucks to al Qaeda-backed forces in Syria, the senators said.

“The Syria Train and Equip Program goes beyond simply being an inefficient use of taxpayer dollars. As many of us initially warned, it is now aiding the very forces we aim to defeat,” the four senators — three Democrats and one Republican — said in their letter.

Defense officials admitted last month that they were falling far below their promise of thousands of fighters trained this year, and of the several dozen who had been trained, only “four or five” are actually on the battlefield. The others were killed or captured almost immediately upon being deployed.

The Pentagon says it has dozens more fighters in the pipeline, but said it will miss its targets. But officials rejected the need for a rethink, telling the Senate Armed Services Committee that the president and top Pentagon officials think they have the right mix.

One key to that was a decision to allow American warplanes to provide air cover for U.S.-backed rebels. But that could be more difficult now that Russia has committed its forces to the fight in Syria, complicating American military officials’ plans.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

And Washington D.C. disagrees with you.

This came out before the Paris attacks.

When in doubt, quote random story...

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by spence

When in doubt, quote random story...

Here's another one.

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/20/capi...d_focus_on_is/

Friday, Nov 20, 2015 01:45 PM EST

CAPITOL HILL BUZZ: Forget Assad, focus on IS

Deb Riechmann, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — In an unusual alliance, a House Democrat and Republican have teamed up to urge the Obama administration to stop trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad and focus all its efforts on destroying Islamic State militants.

Reps. Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii, and Austin Scott, R-Ga., introduced legislation on Friday to end what they called an “illegal war” to overthrow Assad, the leader of Syria accused of killing tens of thousands of Syrian citizens in a more than four-year-old civil war entangled in a battle against IS extremists, also known as ISIS.

“The U.S. is waging two wars in Syria,” Gabbard said. “The first is the war against ISIS and other Islamic extremists, which Congress authorized after the terrorist attack on 9/11. The second war is the illegal war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad.”

Scott said, “Working to remove Assad at this stage is counter-productive to what I believe our primary mission should be.”

Publicly, the United States has focused its efforts on fighting IS and urging Assad to step down. But beyond thousands of U.S. airstrikes targeting IS in the region, the CIA began a covert operation in 2013 to arm, fund and train a moderate opposition to Assad. The secret CIA program is the only step the U.S. is taking on Assad militarily.

In the Philippines on Thursday for the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation summit, President Barack Obama reiterated America’s demand that Assad must go. “The bottom line is: I do not foresee a situation in which we can end the civil war in Syria while Assad remains in power,” Obama said.

Since 2013, the CIA has trained an estimated 10,000 fighters, although the number still fighting with so-called moderate forces is unclear. CIA-backed rebels in Syria, who had begun to put serious pressure on Assad’s forces, are now under Russian bombardment with little prospect of rescue by their American patrons, U.S. officials say.

For years, the CIA effort had foundered — so much so that over the summer, some in Congress proposed cutting its budget. Some CIA-supported rebels had been captured; others had defected to extremist groups.

Gabbard complained that Congress has never authorized the CIA effort, though covert programs do not require congressional approval, and the program has been briefed to the intelligence committees as required by law, according to congressional aides who are not authorized to be quoted discussing the matter.

Gabbard contends that the effort to overthrow Assad is counter-productive because it is helping IS topple the Syrian leader and take control of all of Syria. If IS were able to seize the Syrian military’s weaponry, infrastructure and hardware, the group would become even more dangerous than it is now and exacerbate the refugee crisis.