Is this true??

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You mean like VP Joe Biden or Martin O'Malley?

According to Pew, a majority of Catholic voters supported Gore, Kerry and Obama twice in the Presidential elections.

Additionally, right now there are nearly as many Dem Catholics as Rep's in the House (68-70) and a majority Dem Catholic in the Senate (15-11).

Sorry, allow me to clarify...imagine if a Catholic, who wasn't deserving of excommunication for being pro-abortion (therefore being anti-Catholic) ran for President.

I'm not talking about phonies who call themselves Catholic on Sunday because they want that vote, then go to pro-abortion rallies on Monday because they also want that vote.

You cannot be Catholic and be pro-abortion. You can call yourself Catholic and be pro-abortion, just as I can call myself a vegan but win a rib eating contest.

VP Joe Biden's executive branch has been the subject of several suits on behalf of the Catholic Church (another one, from Little Sisters Of The Poor, is at the Supreme Court now). I forgot what a swell Catholic he is that he has been sued by the church. He's a disgrace to his church.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm not talking about phonies who call themselves Catholic on Sunday because they want that vote, then go to pro-abortion rallies on Monday because they also want that vote.

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by spence

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

Jim and I went around on this previously; apparently (and I didn't know the dogma well enough), being pro-choice is grounds for ex-communication.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Jim and I went around on this previously; apparently (and I didn't know the dogma well enough), being pro-choice is grounds for ex-communication.

Have they?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Have they?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Whether or not a pro-abortion politician actually gets ex-communicated is up to their local bishop. Some have been. All are subject to it. There's no ambiguity around whether or not their beliefs subject them to excommunication. Unfortunately, there's no rule that requires the bishops to do it.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Whether or not a pro-abortion politician actually gets ex-communicated is up to their local bishop. Some have been. All are subject to it. There's no ambiguity around whether or not their beliefs subject them to excommunication. Unfortunately, there's no rule that requires the bishops to do it.

What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well? Why not get the bishops to push them all out, I mean they're not really Catholics right?

Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white because they need the people or to Dangles point because they want the money?

If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well? Why not get the bishops to push them all out, I mean they're not really Catholics right?

Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white because they need the people or to Dangles point because they want the money?

If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith?

Being against abortion doesn't necessarily mean you're Catholic either .
I'm going to be a grandfather in a few months . I dare you to look at a modern ultrasound of a three month old fetus and not believe that that is a life . Not condemning those that have abortions just telling you the reality of the situation. It's all very sad
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well? Why not get the bishops to push them all out, I mean they're not really Catholics right?

Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white because they need the people or to Dangles point because they want the money?

If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith?

"What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well?"

The organizations might be real, they might do a lot of good. Pro-abortion people can do wonderful things. What they cannot do, is be Catholics in good standing. Frame it any way you want, spin it any way you want. Being anti-abortion is a binding belief of the Cathchism.

"Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white "

No. The church's position is as black and white as it gets. Some bishops may choose to tolerate pro-abortion folks (showing a lot more tolerance than your side does with pro-life folks), but that doesn't change the church's position on the issue, which is black-and-white.

"If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith"

It says that Catholics share the same flaws that everyone else has. That shouldn't suprise you, but I guess it does.

I answered every single question you asked. Now, can I ask a simple one, and expect the same courtesy?

How come Hilary's lies don't say anything about her integrity, but Carson's lies say something about him? Please be more specific than "apples and oranges", that doesn't exactly explain the double standard you apply. Doesn't seem fair that I answer your questions, and you countinuously dodge mine.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

And what's O'Malley polling at, exactly?

Biden is a phony. He has routinely championed legislation that spits in the face of what he claims to be his religious beliefs. If you want to explain that with something other than "apples and oranges" be my guest. So do phonies like Nancy Pelosi.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Martin O'Malley

- Attended a parish elementary in Bethesda, Md., and Jesuit-run Gonzaga College High School in Washington, D.C.
- Earned his undergraduate degree at the Catholic University of America in Washington
- He’s a pray-every-morning, church-every-Sunday (St. Francis of Assisi in Baltimore) believer who sent all four of his kids to Catholic schools.

i.e. Phony

He's also pro abortion. Meaning, his beliefs are outside of what's allowed for Catholics.

So yes, phony.

Catholicism is made up of binding beliefs (have to go to Church, have to believe Jesus is the son of God), and non-binding beliefs (which are suggestions, but not mandatory, like saying the rosary and being opposed to the death penalty.

Opposition to abortion is a binding belief. You are not Catholic if you are pro-abortion. I can go to vegan meetings, I can say the vegan oath 10 times a day, I can do all kinds of things to outwardly appear like a vegan. But guess what Spence? If I eat steak, I'm not a vegan. It doesn't matter what else I do.