Mother do you think they'll like this song.

[Nebe]

I'm just being the devils advocate.
To assume the good ol USA has a clean nose is really foolish. When you look at things objectively without any sort of "my team VS their team" bias, the picture is very clear that we have screwed up more times than we got it right and our priorities are more about protecting the almighty dollar vs protecting human rights, democracy, etc.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'm just being the devils advocate.
To assume the good ol USA has a clean nose is really foolish. When you look at things objectively without any sort of "my team VS their team" bias, the picture is very clear that we have screwed up more times than we got it right and our priorities are more about protecting the almighty dollar vs protecting human rights, democracy, etc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The US military should be about protecting Americans or American interests as well as steadfast allies. It should not be about protecting concepts such as human rights or democracy. In any case, what human rights are is in dispute. Even democracy is a label used to justify dictatorships. And further, if we, as Americans, cannot agree what our so-called human rights are, how could they be protected.

[JohnR]

I would argue that one of the roles the USA has played that last 70 years was keeping the wars cold and little, not big and hot (or glowing). Yes, a country that politically changes course every 4 to 8 years is prone to upgefucht from time to time, especially when the domestic politik makes decisions in a vacuum or to gain political favor. So is the Bush debacle in the middle east worse than the the Johnson debacle in Indochina? At least Bush tried to win and establish some level of stability. Johnson tried to do the bare minimum to not loose and to get re-elected.

But what America has been marginal to barely good at for 70 years is prevent minor wars from going global. Keeping the lines of trade open, and generally doing a fair to good job on the global stage. I fear those days are coming to an end as the next decade will be much like that of 100 years ago except as a country we no longer have the ability to act in concert as we are too divided and chasing idols and special snowflakes while passing around the peace pipe. Though this time there will be nukes. And our kids will be of military age when this next round of global instability starts clearing her throat.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

When you look at things objectively without any sort of "my team VS their team" bias, the picture is very clear that we have screwed up more times than we got it right and our priorities are more about protecting the almighty dollar vs protecting human rights, democracy, etc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So to further your argument a little, riddle me this, Batman. If the US had not played its miserable role since 1945 - what would happened in the world? It is very easy to play devil's advocate and quite fun some times, but roll out some alternate history and tell me what would have happened if "our team" had not flown the Berlin Airlift or stick 2 Army Corps within a couple hundred miles of the InterGerman Border? Sacrificed thousands of young Americans in the early and mid-50s to stop the NKs before they got to the Tsushima Strait? The West -v- East in the 60s-late 80s? What would have happened if the US led from behind? I've been to the other side of the Iron Curtain before it fell. We would not be allowed to have this conversation.

What do you honestly feel the world would look like today if we pulled back 60, 50, or even just 30 years ago? Approach this as not some wine and cheese philosophical discussion but put on your Red Team hat and game this out for me, please.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'm just being the devils advocate.
To assume the good ol USA has a clean nose is really foolish. no one said or assumed this so I'm not sure who you're talking at here


When you look at things objectively without any sort of "my team VS their team" bias is this how you look at things?, the picture is very clear that we have screwed up more times than we got it right and our priorities are more about protecting the almighty dollar vs protecting human rights, democracy, etc.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

begging you to provide your historically objective very clear and accurate evidence for the last part