Obama and the VA scandal

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

just think how terrible OBAMA CARE aka affordable health care is going to be...they can not run the VA how do U think they could run a national healthcare system...will be back logged as bad as Canada and Britain.

From what I've read the VA typically outperforms private healthcare pretty constantly.

The desire to have this bring Obama down is pretty petty. As Fly noted, it's a product of a much bigger system and one that's seen an influx of customers the past decade. Obama did promise to improve it but some funding to do so has been opposed.

As for Obama remarking he learned about it in the news, he's just saying he didn't have a lot of advance notice. I'm sure he was briefed as soon as it became public.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

From what I've read the VA typically outperforms private healthcare pretty constantly.

I'm sure he was briefed as soon as it became public.

-spence

Well of course !!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Fly Rod]

Massachusetts has one of the best run VA's in the country...I wonder Y?...maybe it is because we have some of the best hospitals and specialist...a couple of my doctors at Brigham and Women's also spend time with vetrans.

Spence: As far as Obama, he promised to fix the VA under his watch as far back as 2007-2008 in his speeches running for the presidency... as all his other speeches he tells the people what they want to hear and does not follow through...after all he took up radicalism at harvard...he failed and as I stated every other president has basically failed....it is also assumed that he knew the books were cooked to permit rewards to staff as far back as 2008....and the senate just the other day refused to hear a bill that would make it easier to fire VA workers...we can blame the unions for that...the bottom line is they will just throw some dollars into it to satisfy a few and in a month or two it will be forgotten.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Spence: As far as Obama, he promised to fix the VA under his watch as far back as 2007-2008 in his speeches running for the presidency... as all his other speeches he tells the people what they want to hear and does not follow through...after all he took up radicalism at harvard...he failed and as I stated every other president has basically failed....it is also assumed that he knew the books were cooked to permit rewards to staff as far back as 2008....and the senate just the other day refused to hear a bill that would make it easier to fire VA workers...we can blame the unions for that...the bottom line is they will just throw some dollars into it to satisfy a few and in a month or two it will be forgotten.

Fix is a pretty vague term, even with the AZ issues -- which are pretty disturbing mind you -- a lot of the VA system does appear to work well and some things like funding and wait times Obama appears to have helped improve. Have Republicans helped or hurt the process?

I'm not sure why you think it's "assumed" that he knew of wrongdoing as far back as 2008. I've never heard any such accusation let alone evidence that would make it assumed. The only evidence available indicates Obama learned about it in September when CNN broke the story.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Fix is a pretty vague term, even with the AZ issues -- which are pretty disturbing mind you -- a lot of the VA system does appear to work well and some things like funding and wait times Obama appears to have helped improve.

-spence

I don't call waiting lists and deaths because of them appear that Obama "appears "to have helped improve is any kind of improvement.
As the shortage of Docs increase and the population gets older there can't
help but be priority lists with Obamacare too.

[Tagger]

Republican's talk out both sides of their mouths and hang everything on Obama .
Most challenging time to be president with 2 wars and a collapsed economy . Get rid of all these Bums or bring back " Hell No ,, We won't Go !! " .. flame on ..

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I don't call waiting lists and deaths because of them appear that Obama "appears "to have helped improve is any kind of improvement.

You're talking about one part of a large system.

As the shortage of Docs increase and the population gets older there can't help but be priority lists with Obamacare too.

There always have been priority lists and there always will be. Even with private insurance you don't think they have their own version of the "death panel" to modulate shareholder value?

As the population gets older people will be on medicare anyway and they'll consume the majority of the care. You're going to have capacity issues regardless.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

You're talking about one part of a large system.

That's the beauty of a large system. If someone dares to talk about one part of it, they can be dismissed without discussion since their concern is so minimal compared with the massive bureaucracy that comprises the system. Sort of like all encompassing centralized government.

There always have been priority lists and there always will be. Even with private insurance you don't think they have their own version of the "death panel" to modulate shareholder value?

I don't know if they do. But they have specific, spelled out, benefits and limitations. And they can be bullied or convicted by government aided by sharp lawyers into paying for things they might object to. It's kind of difficult to convince the government to bully or convict itself in such cases (unless votes are in the balance). And private insurers provide a plethora of "versions," and, until the ACA, were not forced to provide certain things in all "versions." You were more able to get what you paid for rather than being coerced to pay for what you were forced to get.

As the population gets older people will be on medicare anyway and they'll consume the majority of the care. You're going to have capacity issues regardless.

-spence

And . . . how, again, was the ACA going to make this better and "more affordable"? Oh yeah, that's right . . . it was going to force the subsidization of some, without choice, at the expense of others. Right . . . that's how large bureaucratic centralized socialistic systems work. In every respect. Except for some very "special" cases, like abortion, where choice is paramount.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

From what I've read the VA typically outperforms private healthcare pretty constantly.


-spence

Spence, where did you ever read that? Have you ever been in a VA Hospital?
If not do yourself a favor and visit one, then come out and tell me they outperform private hospitals. Outrageous.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, where did you ever read that? Have you ever been in a VA Hospital?
If not do yourself a favor and visit one, then come out and tell me they outperform private hospitals. Outrageous.

No, but reports I've read on many metrics, satisfaction surveys they do quite well. Not saying everything is perfect. I'm sure there are good systems and bad ones.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Not saying everything is perfect. I'm sure there are good systems and bad ones.

-spence

One bad system, is one too many for our troops whose lives have been
changed forever fighting to keep us free.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

One bad system, is one too many for our troops whose lives have been
changed forever fighting to keep us free.

I'd certainly agree.

-spence

[Tagger]

I've always heard bad stuff about the VA ,, My father died in the VA 35 yrs. ago .. Before that he'd go there to dry out .. Is this really a big surprise ?? Or just keep throwing poop on the wall until it sticks ..