Rep Chris Stewart guts Ambassador Yovanovitch

[Got Stripers]

Well I guess in a month or two we will all know who is crazy.
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[wdmso]

Morrison said Sondland had repeated contact with Trump and believed he had a mandate from the president to work on a second channel involving Rudy Giuliani, president Trump's personal attorney, outside the normal interagency process pressing for the investigation. But Morrison also raised several questions about whether Trump, himself, did anything wrong.

Republican only read he raised questions whether Trump did anything wrong . (,so he didn't) they do the same with climate and taxes and healthcare.. they find the needle in the haystack. And present it as undeniable truth.

its the judicial committee will present charges if any to the Senate .. seems people think this is the impeachment Trial ..
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[spence]

Don’t know why you’d lie to the FBI or tamper with witnesses unless you did something wrong.

Good read for you also.

https://thebulwark.com/trumps-clean-hands-defense/
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Don’t know why you’d lie to the FBI or tamper with witnesses unless you did something wrong.

Good read for you also.

https://thebulwark.com/trumps-clean-hands-defense/
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and the woman who got a standing ovation, why would she lie about being contacted by the DNC about all this?

Most will lie if it suits them. are you only oncerned when republicans do it? The ambassador said she never spoke to the democrats about this situation, we have emails that show otherwise.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and the woman who got a standing ovation, why would she lie about being contacted by the DNC about all this?

Most will lie if it suits them. are you only oncerned when republicans do it? The ambassador said she never spoke to the democrats about this situation, we have emails that show otherwise.
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You do know the DNC and a Democratic house member or senator are not the same. Correct

Please stop with the conspiracys. Post links and sources. Or just admit he did it. Its easier then being a contortionist.. avoiding whats known and grasping at straws
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You do know the DNC and a Democratic house member or senator are not the same. Correct

Please stop with the conspiracys. Post links and sources. Or just admit he did it. Its easier then being a contortionist.. avoiding whats known and grasping at straws
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you’re right i misspoke. she got an email
from a democrat staffer, and under oath she said she didn’t respond
to it, and she did.

she also admitted zero knowledge of trump doing anything illegal.

she got a standing ovation because trump fired her. that must make her an innocent victim of his scumbaggery, as opposed to it being beyond common for presidents to replace political appointees from the previous administration. democrat presidents NEVER do that.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re right i misspoke. she got an email
from a democrat staffer, and under oath she said she didn’t respond
to it, and she did.

she also admitted zero knowledge of trump doing anything illegal.

she got a standing ovation because trump fired her. that must make her an innocent victim of his scumbaggery, as opposed to it being beyond common for presidents to replace political appointees from the previous administration. democrat presidents NEVER do that.
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What part of a witness doesn't determine what is or isn't a crime ..

Why do Republicans keep thinking that has any relevance. If the think it was or was not a crime?

I am certain if she said yes she thought it was a crime .. your tune would be different
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Didn’t think you were as drunk on the Trump cocktail as some others, but I guess it’s all party lines, ignore the abuse. Trump isn’t going about running the country any differently than he ran his company, he has no respect for law, truth is as he sees and speaks it and the only thing he cares about is promoting his brand.
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I am sober about the leftist, Progressive continual dismantling of our constitutional republic and incrementally transforming it into a quasi democracy.

It's not about Trump, per se, for me. I am not drinking whatever cocktail you accuse him of serving. He is not the best, nor the worst, to lead us back in the founding direction. He is, with all of his flaws, better, wittingly or unwittingly, at lopping off many of the Progressive appendages of power and influence which have metastasized into our governing structure. And he certainly has outed so called Conservative pretenders.

For those who are actually interested in our real foundational corruption rather than the inevitable surface eruptions of flawed and corrupt politicians, he is a clarifying point of departure from the quickening tack toward despotic government underpinned by the tyranny of a willing and dependent majority.

I am not for a "democracy." I am with the Founders in recognizing that democracies evolve into tyrannical majoritarian rule directed by the few despots who coerce the majority, first by favor catering to human self-interest , then by force, into giving themselves the power to inflict every self-aggrandizing policy they wish. Some think this is good--that a benevolent dictatorship is the best way of securing the well-being of the masses.

The Progressive notion of democracy is, as I implied, "quasi." It uses the method of voting, not to accede to the will of the people, but to subdue them to the will of supposedly wiser and more able experts who will overcome the petty self-interests of individuals and, by their superior knowledge of what is good for all people, create the governing bureaucracy that can, without local impediments, distribute that good to everyone in the most equitable and efficient manor.

Before Trump started wielding his wrecking hammer, we were on the doorstep of that quasi-democracy with its rule by bureaucratic agencies.

It is obvious to many of us, that the constant negative attention being paid to Trump, and the unabated effort to get rid of him, to impeach him before he even had a chance to exercise any presidential power, and continually seeking ways to do so when other ways fail--and in light of him being one of theirs before he ran for the office--that there is something way beyond him as Trump that is behind all these efforts.

So it is not about Trump per se for me. It is about that "way beyond" thing. All of this impeachment nonsense is first a distraction from that thing, and second a maybe-get-lucky effort that gets him out of the way of that ultimate quasi-democracy.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I am sober about the leftist, Progressive continual dismantling of our constitutional republic and incrementally transforming it into a quasi democracy.

It's not about Trump, per se, for me. I am not drinking whatever cocktail you accuse him of serving. He is not the best, nor the worst, to lead us back in the founding direction. He is, with all of his flaws, better, wittingly or unwittingly, at lopping off many of the Progressive appendages of power and influence which have metastasized into our governing structure. And he certainly has outed so called Conservative pretenders.

For those who are actually interested in our real foundational corruption rather than the inevitable surface eruptions of flawed and corrupt politicians, he is a clarifying point of departure from the quickening tack toward despotic government underpinned by the tyranny of a willing and dependent majority.

I am not for a "democracy." I am with the Founders in recognizing that democracies evolve into tyrannical majoritarian rule directed by the few despots who coerce the majority, first by favor catering to human self-interest , then by force, into giving themselves the power to inflict every self-aggrandizing policy they wish. Some think this is good--that a benevolent dictatorship is the best way of securing the well-being of the masses.

The Progressive notion of democracy is, as I implied, "quasi." It uses the method of voting, not to accede to the will of the people, but to subdue them to the will of supposedly wiser and more able experts who will overcome the petty self-interests of individuals and, by their superior knowledge of what is good for all people, create the governing bureaucracy that can, without local impediments, distribute that good to everyone in the most equitable and efficient manor.

Before Trump started wielding his wrecking hammer, we were on the doorstep of that quasi-democracy with its rule by bureaucratic agencies.

It is obvious to many of us, that the constant negative attention being paid to Trump, and the unabated effort to get rid of him, to impeach him before he even had a chance to exercise any presidential power, and continually seeking ways to do so when other ways fail--and in light of him being one of theirs before he ran for the office--that there is something way beyond him as Trump that is behind all these efforts.

So it is not about Trump per se for me. It is about that "way beyond" thing. All of this impeachment nonsense is first a distraction from that thing, and second a maybe-get-lucky effort that gets him out of the way of that ultimate quasi-democracy.

If thats not a kool aid driven reply. Of conspiracies mixed with chicken little with a dash of i want a time machine to bring me back to when American was acceptable.. i am not sure what else to call it. A manifesto?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

If thats not a kool aid driven reply.

It isn't.

Of conspiracies

I pointed out a historical process that has occurred. There is indisputable evidence of what direction and into which system of government that Progressives want to take us. That evidence is far more compelling than what leftist Dems claim is evidence that Trump committed an impeachable offense.

I suppose that, in your typical incoherent ability to perceive and conclude, you could see that as a conspiracy . . . or anything else your distorted brain desires.


mixed with chicken little

No chicken little. If the sky were actually falling, we wouldn't have the chicken little meme. What I referred to is not a fictitious "sky is falling." It is a historical fact.



with a dash of i want a time machine to bring me back to when American was acceptable..

I spoke of past, present, and future, and the directions in which founding notions and Progressives ones take us. I didn't claim a desire to go back to another time. The founding principles are not time dependent. Neither are Progressive ones. We can move forward with either, or with others. I gave my preference and some reasons why.

i am not sure what else to call it. A manifesto?

What you call it is irrelevant since you have not demonstrated an ability to coherently discuss it.

[scottw]

I'm offended by the title of this thread..it's deer season you know....don't you know she got a standing applause for her Oscar winning performance??????

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

What you call it is irrelevant since you have not demonstrated an ability to coherently discuss it.

I dont discuss ones over active imagination
Of what America has become.. while not providing base line of when American was acceptable
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I dont discuss ones over active imagination
Of what America has become.. while not providing base line of when American was acceptable

What America has become is a huge arena of discussion. It involves much, much more than its system of government. I was focusing my concern to the narrow but extremely important discussion of the distinction between our founding governmental principles and the Progressive philosophy of government. I believe that would be an easier and more manageable discussion than the voluminous scope of realities which depict what America has become.

Nor can there be a universal opinion that being an American is acceptable. Acceptable to whom? That would be up to the individual having such an opinion. And acceptable in what respect?

If by a baseline you mean a particular year, my over active imagination would guess that, for some, being an American was acceptable when there was first a notion of such a thing. I don't know what that date would be, but am sure that was a long time ago.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

If thats not a kool aid driven reply. Of conspiracies mixed with chicken little with a dash of i want a time machine to bring me back to when American was acceptable.. i am not sure what else to call it. A manifesto?
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you forgot to mention faux news

[Got Stripers]

They are all great men and women, highly respected, great background, distinguished careers UNTIL they cross him or don’t agree with him publicly and in support of anything he has or wants to do; then they all apparently regardless of their service to this country become something else. When Trump turns on you it’s all out smear, denigrate, belittle, name call and it really only shows everyone the true character of this clown.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

When Trump turns on you it’s all out smear, denigrate, belittle, name call and it really only shows everyone the true character of this clown.

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ummm.....have you watched the democraps go after people that they disagree with????

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

They are all great men and women, highly respected, great background, distinguished careers.

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you say so. do you know how common it is, for
new administrations
to come in and clean hose? the firings are common. the only unique thing about trump, is his idiotic tweets.

clinton and obama sure did it.
only a character flaw when trump
does it.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you say so. do you know how common it is, for
new administrations
to come in and clean hose? the firings are common. the only unique thing about trump, is his idiotic tweets.

clinton and obama sure did it.
only a character flaw when trump
does it.
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That is baloney, cite some evidence of when Career diplomats were cleaned out. I would expect it would be true for Political Appointees (PA)
Career diplomats postings typically last about 3 years.
Here is the list of currently serving ambassadors by appointment date.
It is not the complete list but Floridaman has made numerous appointments of Career diplomats (CD) since being inaugurated.
Others have paid or made donations of millions and become ambassadors.


Malawi List Robert K. Scott CD Lilongwe December 12, 2014
Palau[58] List Amy J. Hyatt CD Koror December 12, 2014
Romania List Hans G. Klemm[62] CD Bucharest August 5, 2015
Eswatini (Swaziland)[34] List Lisa J. Peterson CD Mbabane November 19, 2015
Oman List Marc Jonathan Sievers CD Muscat November 19, 2015
Uganda List Deborah R. Malac CD Kampala November 19, 2015
Antigua and Barbuda[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Barbados[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Dominica[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Grenada[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Saint Kitts and Nevis[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Saint Lucia[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines[11] List Linda Swartz Taglialatela[12] CD Bridgetown December 9, 2015
Burma (Myanmar)[21] List Scot Marciel CD Rangoon [9] February 9, 2016
Lebanon List Elizabeth Holzhall Richard CD Beirut May 17, 2016
Liberia List Christine A. Elder CD Monrovia May 17, 2016
Marshall Islands List Karen B. Stewart CD Majuro May 17, 2016
Federated States of Micronesia Micronesia List Robert Riley CD Kolonia May 17, 2016
Greece List Geoffrey Pyatt CD Athens [20] July 14, 2016
Kuwait List Lawrence Robert Silverman CD Kuwait City July 14, 2016
Burkina Faso List Andrew Robert Young CD Ouagadougou September 28, 2016
Indonesia List Joseph R. Donovan Jr. CD Jakarta [23] September 28, 2016
Laos List Rena Bitter CD Vientiane September 28, 2016
Philippines[58] List Sung Y. Kim CD Manila [39] September 28, 2016
Malaysia List Kamala Shirin Lakhdhir CD Kuala Lumpur December 9, 2016
Israel List David M. Friedman PA Jerusalem [26] March 23, 2017
Republic of the Congo Congo-Brazzaville List Todd Haskell CD Brazzaville May 18, 2017
Guinea-Bissau[41] List Tulinabo S. Mushingi CD Bissau VPP May 18, 2017
Senegal[41] List Tulinabo S. Mushingi CD Dakar May 18, 2017
China List Terry Branstad PA Beijing [11] May 22, 2017
New Zealand[55] List Scott Brown PA Wellington [36] June 8, 2017
Samoa[55] List Scott Brown PA Matafele Apia June 8, 2017
Algeria List John Desrocher CD Algiers August 3, 2017
Ethiopia List Michael A. Raynor CD Addis Ababa August 3, 2017
Peru List Krishna Urs CD Lima August 3, 2017
Sierra Leone List Maria Brewer CD Freetown August 3, 2017
Costa Rica List Sharon Day PA San José August 3, 2017
Italy[44] List Lewis Eisenberg PA Rome [27] August 3, 2017
Portugal List George Edward Glass PA Lisbon [41] August 3, 2017

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you say so. do you know how common it is, for
new administrations
to come in and clean hose? the firings are common. the only unique thing about trump, is his idiotic tweets.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

So you don't see a difference in how every other admin. replaces people with how Trump replaced her?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So you don't see a difference in how every other admin. replaces people with how Trump replaced her?

nope. only to the way he would
have tweeted about it. only in that he’d be juvenile and vulgar about it.

bill clinton, i believe, fired every single us attorney he inherited.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

nope. only to the way he would
have tweeted about it. only in that he’d be juvenile and vulgar about it.

bill clinton, i believe, fired every single us attorney he inherited.
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Bill could have, I don't know - maybe some other Pres. did also.

So it is as GOS said - smear, denigrate, belittle and name call. The Trump admin. is so inept (and classless) that they couldn't let everyone go bc they couldn't vet everyone and then complain later about the person.

So even thought Trump could get rid of her you don't mind that it could have been bc (as Pete said)?

"In her testimony, Yovanovitch detailed how Giuliani and his associates Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman worked with a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor to orchestrate a smear campaign against her, oust her from her post as ambassador, and "circumvent official channels" of Ukraine policy. Yovanovitch also testified, "Perhaps it was not surprising that when our anti-corruption efforts got in the way of the desire for profit or power, Ukrainians who preferred to play by the old, corrupt rules sought to remove me. What continues to amaze me is that they found Americans willing to partner with them and, working together, they apparently succeeded in orchestrating the removal of a U.S. ambassador. How could our system fail like this? How is it that foreign corrupt interests could manipulate our government?" While Yovanovitch was testifying, Trump denigrated her on Twitter. When read what the president had written about her, Yovanovitch testified: "It's very intimidating. I can't speak to what the president is trying to do, but the effect is to be intimidating."

[Pete F.]

You have to realize that Floridaman has every right as President to encourage corruption if he wants to and nobody can complain. It says so, just ask Barr, Jordan, Nunes and Meadows.

Oh, and Jim

[Jim in CT]

Pete, just to be clear. You are saying that it’s “baloney” that new administrations often come
in and replace previous appointees, with their own people?

https://www.infowars.com/clinton-fir...trump-only-46/

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[Jim in CT]

obama fired all of Bush’s politically appointed ambassadors...

https://dailycaller.com/2019/11/15/f...h-ambassadors/

but it’s only problematic when Floridan does it. Right, Pete?

Happens every time
the party of the oval office swaps. no big deal.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

obama fired all of Bush’s politically appointed ambassadors...

https://dailycaller.com/2019/11/15/f...h-ambassadors/

but it’s only problematic when Floridan does it. Right, Pete?

Happens every time
the party of the oval office swaps. no big deal.
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Impressive sources Infowars and Daily Caller........

Do you understand the difference between politically appointed and career diplomats?
I posted the list of current ambassadors, all presidents replace the great majority if not all of the prior administrations politically appointed ones. Nobody denies that.
Career diplomats are not politically appointed and she is a career diplomat with 33 years of service. Thirty three years encompasses the tenure of a number of presidents both Republican and Democratic, from Reagan to Floridaman.
She was familiar with the corruption issues and the work to change the political environment in Ukraine that had occurred prior to Floridaman's administration.
Colludy's buddies Parnas and Fruman were as corrupt as they come and wanted her out of the way. The stench from them won't blow away for awhile and it's the same miasma that Floridaman spreads wherever he goes. Seems pretty likely that it will end up with Colludy joining Floridaman's other lawyer in government housing. We'll see how good his insurance is.

[scottw]

Chalupa

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Impressive sources Infowars and Daily Caller........

is.

you’re insulting sources that are better informed
than you were. interesting.

i’m not defending the practice of
mass firings, just pointing out that (1) they all do it, and (2) you only care when trump does it.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re insulting sources that are better informed
than you were. interesting.

i’m not defending the practice of
mass firings, just pointing out that (1) they all do it, and (2) you only care when trump does it.
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No Jim, no prior president has removed a sitting career diplomat without cause.

I still have not seen any cause put forth by the administration.

This has nothing to do with political appointees.

Your sources are talking of other political appointees being removed and you are conflating that with Floridaman's Yovanovitch actions.

[PaulS]

So why was this ambassador not fired at the beginning of Trump's term but rather fired only when Trump and shady Guiliani got involved with the shady Ukrainians? Was it just a coincidence w/the timing that they started pressing Ukraine to investigate Biden?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So why was this ambassador not fired at the beginning of Trump's term but rather fired only when Trump and shady Guiliani got involved with the shady Ukrainians? Was it just a coincidence w/the timing that they started pressing Ukraine to investigate Biden?

two minutes ago you denied that it was common for a
new potus to clean house. now all
if a sudden you’re so knowledgeable, that you know why this one was fired. because she says it was to allow corruption to
occur.

and maybe it’s true. but her accusation, isnt evidence.
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