GAZA

[cheferson]

So it's ok for us to give arms to Israel ( 3 dead so far ) , but not for Egypt or Iran to do the same for the Palestinians(over 100 dead with many children/civilians ) ?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by cheferson

So it's ok for us to give arms to Israel ( 3 dead so far ) , but not for Egypt or Iran to do the same for the Palestinians(over 100 dead with many children/civilians ) ?

You do know Iran wants us dead ...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[likwid]

Originally Posted by buckman

You do know Iran wants us dead ...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yes, everyone believes the Iranian version of Rush Limbaugh.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

Yes, everyone believes the Iranian version of Rush Limbaugh.

So if they develop a nuke, that wouldn't concern you?

Not everyone who says Iran is a threat, is a right-wing rdical. However, the only folks saying that we don't need to worry about Iran, are themselves radicals. Misinformed radicals.

Most folks agree that if Iran is a barbaric regime, hell-bent on enslaving as many people as possible under their thumb.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So if they develop a nuke, that wouldn't concern you?

Not everyone who says Iran is a threat, is a right-wing rdical. However, the only folks saying that we don't need to worry about Iran, are themselves radicals. Misinformed radicals.

Most folks agree that if Iran is a barbaric regime, hell-bent on enslaving as many people as possible under their thumb.

I suppose you think the queen is the supreme ruler of the UK too right?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

I suppose you think the queen is the supreme ruler of the UK too right?

As a matter of fact, I don't. Your point is?

The mullahs are in charge of Iran. They are bloodthirsty Islamic radical barbarians. Among other things, they are dedicated to the eradication of Israel.

If you aren't worried about them getting a nuke, that's your right.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

You do know Iran wants us dead ...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Relevantly, much of the hate from Iran towards the US stems from US policy with regards to Israel-Palestine relations.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Relevantly, much of the hate from Iran towards the US stems from US policy with regards to Israel-Palestine relations.

So we let Iran bully us into changing our foreign policy?

If the barbaric kooks in Iran hate what we're doing in the Middle East, that's pretty good reason for me to assume we are doing the right thing.

The Civil Rights workers who fought in the segregated south used to have a saying..."if the Klan is shooting at you, you must be doing something right".

Happy Thanksgiving Johnny. Following UCONN hoops at all?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So we let Iran bully us into changing our foreign policy?

If the barbaric kooks in Iran hate what we're doing in the Middle East, that's pretty good reason for me to assume we are doing the right thing.

The Civil Rights workers who fought in the segregated south used to have a saying..."if the Klan is shooting at you, you must be doing something right".

Happy Thanksgiving Johnny. Following UCONN hoops at all?

Not necessarily. I think we should change our foreign policy with Israel because I think they are a bunch of instigators. They're like the little squirt who talks tough knowing that his big brother would come in and beat everyone up if he got in trouble.

Israel acts the way they do because the US is their safety net. Not much different than a lot of risks taken by banks in the financial sector who know that they have the government as a safety net should they be on the verge of going belly up.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Honestly, I don't follow any college sports at all - don't have the mental capacity for it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Not necessarily. I think we should change our foreign policy with Israel because I think they are a bunch of instigators. They're like the little squirt who talks tough knowing that his big brother would come in and beat everyone up if he got in trouble.

Israel acts the way they do because the US is their safety net. Not much different than a lot of risks taken by banks in the financial sector who know that they have the government as a safety net should they be on the verge of going belly up.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Honestly, I don't follow any college sports at all - don't have the mental capacity for it.

Israel has fought wars, all-out wars, which we did not fight in. the aye quite capabe of wiping the Palestinians off the face of the Earth, with no help from us. Maybe Iran too, as long as Iran doesn't have nukes. Given that Obama isn't as supportive of them as previous presidents, we may well find out the answer to that question in 2013.

In my humble opinion, Israel does the only thing it can do, given that they are literally surrounded by people who want to kill them. I worked with their military for a few months, it's tough to describe what they live with every day. I'm not saying they haven't done some things to fan the flames of hate, but I see them as a victim, not an instigator.

The banks did what they did to make money. Israel is trying to continue to exist.

I'm not objective, as my Mom comes from a line of Polish Jews, who let's say faced some hardships in the 1930's and 1940's.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Israel has fought wars, all-out wars, which we did not fight in. the aye quite capabe of wiping the Palestinians off the face of the Earth, with no help from us. Maybe Iran too, as long as Iran doesn't have nukes. Given that Obama isn't as supportive of them as previous presidents, we may well find out the answer to that question in 2013.

It is extremely misleading to say Israel has accomplished *anything at all* on their own. An average of $3 billion per year in aid to them since 1985, most of which is military and technology. Almost $80 billion over the course of 27 years. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Also, to say Obama isn't as supportive is like saying it hasn't rained as much in the rainforest this year. As I posted earlier, Obama just announced we're 'gifting' another $70million to Israel for their missile defense shield.

In the face of $16 trillion in debt and a trillion dollar deficit, I am completely intolerant of the billions of dollars we are shipping out of this country for completely lost causes - that includes Pakistan, Afghanistan, Africa and Israel.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Israel acts the way they do because the US is their safety net.

that's interesting, I always figured they act the way they do because their neighbors are routinely threatening the extermination of their people and annihilation of their country and have sponsored terrorism and engaged in indiscriminate bombing against their country routinely.........currently, things don't appear to be improving from their stand point in the Middle East with the Arab spring empowering radicals, if they are nervous or tired of being threatened or have an itchy trigger finger...I don't really blame them...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by cheferson

So it's ok for us to give arms to Israel ( 3 dead so far ) , but not for Egypt or Iran to do the same for the Palestinians(over 100 dead with many children/civilians ) ?

Cheferson, it is horrible, absolutely tragic, that the Palestinians have lost so many civilians.

But I'll ask again...if Hamas starts lobbing missiles into Israeli civilian areas, and the Hamas military leaders intentionally operate in civilian areas (using their own civilians as shields), what is Israel supposed to do? What are they supposed to do?

I'll also say that as lopsided as a 100-3 casualty ratio may appear...war is not supposed to be a game where everybody wins. You don't let the other side score a few points to make them feel bettter. The goal is 100-0, not 100-3. You try to avoid hurting non-combatants on the other side, but in the end, all that matters is protecting your own. That's ugly, but it's reality.

Yes, it's OK for us to give arms to Israel, and it's not OK for anyone to arm the Palestinians. Here's why. If the Palestinians never fired another shot, neither would Israel. If Israel never fired another shot, they would be annihilated.

There is a moral distinction between the the attacker and the person who gets attacked and fights back. Not that the Israelis haven't made mistakes. But you can't say with a straight face that they are routinely the aggressor. Israel has made enormous concessions in the West Bank and in Gaza. It wasn't enough, it will never be enough.