Why isnt Obama listening?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Joe

Jim: You asked for opinions and I gave you mine. It's o.k. to discount what I think - a lot of people have - but I believe my points were valid.

Perhaps I'm misreading you, Joe. On the one hand you seem to admire Obama because he is not the typical opportunist politician, on the other hand you seem to think he is scary because he actually believes in what he is doing. This doesn't clarify, for me, what you actually opine on the the health care bill. In another thread you pointed out that our economy is unsustainable. This health care bill is, to me, piling even more unsustainability on top of what is already unsustainable. The Keynesian economic model has evolved us into this situation, and Obama's policies are, to me, Keynes on steroids. I realize that many think that the free market is broken, that it doesn't work. I think that is a misconception of what a free market does. A free market does not provide "free" services. It provides the opportunity for individuals to provide for themselves, of themselves, by themselves. It guarantees nothing. Failure is inherent in freedom. The free market provides the opportunity to pursue life liberty and happiness. It does not guarantee those things. To say that the free market has failed because health care is not guaranteed to everybody is actually saying that you prefer something other than a free market, not that it has failed. If you prefer the mixed, Keynesian model, is that because it "works?" Again, it has evolved us into the present unsustainability. Is there some magical mixed economy that balances the government intrusion into the hard hearted market so that life, liberty, and happiness are guaranteed? Has that ever occurred? Have we passed that magical point, and are Obama's policies trying to steer us back to it?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is there some magical mixed economy that balances the government intrusion into the hard hearted market so that life, liberty, and happiness are guaranteed?

Yes, it's called America. We have a system that works in 20 and 50 year cycles that move the flow of money up or down to bring stability (i.e. growth) over the long haul.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Yes, it's called America. We have a system that works in 20 and 50 year cycles that move the flow of money up or down to bring stability (i.e. growth) over the long haul.

-spence

So then, hope and change are not needed.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So then, hope and change are not needed.

Most people don't apply macro thinking to their own lives. During the smaller cycles I'd think that hope and change could be beneficial to the individual, even if they are insignificant in the big picture.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Most people don't apply macro thinking to their own lives. During the smaller cycles I'd think that hope and change could be beneficial to the individual, even if they are insignificant in the big picture.

-spence

Up until your thoughts on the beneficence of hope and change to the individual, the discussion was at the "macro" level. And the inference was, obviously, to Obama's campaign motto and the impact of his unsustainable (in my opinion) policies on an economy that Joe feels is already unsustainable

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Up until your thoughts on the beneficence of hope and change to the individual, the discussion was at the "macro" level. And the inference was, obviously, to Obama's campaign motto and the impact of his unsustainable (in my opinion) policies on an economy that Joe feels is already unsustainable

My point is that Obama's policies won't likely influence the macro trends.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

My point is that Obama's policies won't likely influence the macro trends.

-spence

So if the macro trends are "20 to 50 year cycles that move the flow of money up or down to bring stability (i.e. growth) over the long haul", and if this is the "mixed economy that guarantees life, liberty, and happiness," then worries of unsustainability are unwarrented, and complaints of us being inches away from an Indian style class system are delusional. And if Obama's policies won't influence these happiness guaranteeing macro trends, then his health care and stimulus initiatives are just vote getting gimmicks since, due to the macro trends, there are no actual crises that we must hurry up and fix.