Bailing out GM

[Joe]

Doing nothing is expensive to. The people losing their jobs are no longer taxpayers.

[BigFish]

If I have my choice I let these companies go under Joe and deal with that fallout than the fallout we are going to deal with from all these bailouts! The government bailed out these banks and now because of it the economy is sliding downhill faster than before!! Companies and businesses are laying folks off as we speak and are poised to lay off alot more......so where is the bailout going to help if we save GM??? They are still going to layoff a good portion of their workforce either way so where is the upside????!!!!

[slapshot]

Let them go under. Maybe then we can learn to compete with all the foreign car companies that are succeeding without unionized labor.

[BigFish]

Its survival of the fitest and another company will just buy them out...let it happen!!! Its called capitalism!

[striperman36]

Anybody remember the GM plant in Framingham?

[Slipknot]

Something is behind all the industry leaving the USA and it pisses me off. The road we are headed down is pretty grim.

[The Dad Fisherman]

nuff said..

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Something is behind all the industry leaving the USA and it pisses me off. The road we are headed down is pretty grim.

Its called moving to the cheapest labor source.
Did you see '60 minutes' Sunday. Dumping of E-Waste in China?
8 bucks a day for hazardous, deadly conditions

The people wanted the work!!! They thought 8 bucks a day to breath noxious fumes, ingest mecury, dioxion, lead was a great wage

[Joe]

I'm not saying write GM a blank check, ot invest in a doomed company, if that's the case, they should fail. But it would be a shame if when things turned around we find that we could have saved our domestic auto industry if we tried.
This is more than the usual shakeout of weak, uncompetitive companies in the marketplace. Sitting by and letting events play out in times of crisis is not a good idea - that's what Hoover did. You end up with 28% unemployment and the republic teetering on the brink.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Right here right now is trickle down economics amplified times 10. The notion that by bailing these companies out is going to solve the problem is ludacris. When dozens of millions of people are flat broke and their credit rating is cooked and their cards are maxed out and they cant refinance thier home to come up with some money, how the %$%$%$%$ are the large companies that have been bailed out supposed to sell anything????

Lets take the trillions of dollars dedicated to a bail out and divide it up amongst every citizen and put it on a prepaid visa card and say 'spend it in 30 days, or your going to loose it'.. That is an economic bailout...The thing is this.. if we do that, its looked at as socialism.

I say let GM fail, OR give huge stipulations that any balout money has to go to the development of alternative energy vehicles.. THIS is the time to do it. But to bail them out so they can make more gas hog SUV's is insane.

holy crap, we agree AGAIN! This Obama thing is really working!

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Its called moving to the cheapest labor source.
Did you see '60 minutes' Sunday. Dumping of E-Waste in China?
8 bucks a day for hazardous, deadly conditions

The people wanted the work!!! They thought 8 bucks a day to breath noxious fumes, ingest mecury, dioxion, lead was a great wage

yes i saw it, pretty sad

I think there is more to it than cheap labor

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Where will this end and when will we see that 70 BILLION DOLLARS again???? If ever!!

We will never see it again.

Jeez ,i still haven't read what the criteria is as to what institutions will get it, why, how much, and what they must be do with it.

Anybody know?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

holy crap, we agree AGAIN! This Obama thing is really working!

thats right comrade

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

yes i saw it, pretty sad

I think there is more to it than cheap labor

You mean like the exploitation of innocents?

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Right here right now is trickle down economics amplified times 10. The notion that by bailing these companies out is going to solve the problem is ludacris. When dozens of millions of people are flat broke and their credit rating is cooked and their cards are maxed out and they cant refinance thier home to come up with some money, how the %$%$%$%$ are the large companies that have been bailed out supposed to sell anything????

Lets take the trillions of dollars dedicated to a bail out and divide it up amongst every citizen and put it on a prepaid visa card and say 'spend it in 30 days, or your going to loose it'.. That is an economic bailout...The thing is this.. if we do that, its looked at as socialism.

I say let GM fail, OR give huge stipulations that any balout money has to go to the development of alternative energy vehicles.. THIS is the time to do it. But to bail them out so they can make more gas hog SUV's is insane.

Saw on the news today Pres. Elect Obama is pushing for an immediate bailout for the struggling motor companies......any thoughts Eben?

[Nebe]

beats me Bigfish.. I do hope that he pushes for retooling.

[BigFish]

I just don't want him walking down Bushes path.......he needs to show that HE wants change. Won't be a good way for him to start out if he pushes for this.

[Nebe]

time will tell.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by slapshot

Let them go under. Maybe then we can learn to compete with all the foreign car companies that are succeeding without unionized labor.

Many "imports" are built here in factories where the workforce belongs to the UAW.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I think I'm going to buy a 1/2 million dollar home this month then a new Escalade to tool around in......Can't afford it but what the hell.....then when they come to take them back because i can't pay for them i'll whine to the government to help me out....then When they send me a check....I'm taking the family to Disneyworld..WooooHoooo

pop, I think you just might have a knack for comedy!!

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Anybody remember the GM plant in Framingham?

I once met the guy that threw all of the extra screws on the floor to make people think parts were missing...

GM makes a good product (certainly at the higher end), and the product was what Americans were buying. The people that wanted the economical cars which made zero profit were buying from the Japs, the people buying the big iron (remember, gas was cheap) were buying American. I'll put an 08 Tahoe against any of its foreign completion. I will say my (second) focus is 93% the car of a Corolla or Civic for 87% of the price (I used to work in Toyota service departments, they have problems too).

Chrysler sucks

But we have a choice, we can bail out the AutoMFGs and take a part ownership (to sell back later) for 70billion freakin dollars, OR we can spend 50 billion freaking dollars on all of the displaced workers for GM, the suppliers, the chemists, the banks, and all of the small and medium businesses that support all of the above.

We pay either way. For those that keep buying foreign cars, keep in mind, you are not helping the US that mush. Even the ones that are made (err, assembled) here, the profits go in one of those vacuum sucky thingies back to Japan.

And WHEN the Chinese start marketing cars here in the northeast (they have their foot in the US market), put your money where your mouth is, buy American.

[BigFish]

These bailouts are unprecedented and insane! They will do nothing but plunge us deeper in to what they call a "recession"......stupid term so people think its not really that bad. What will a true "depression" be like?? Well I think you have a better chance of finding that out if we keep bailing these companies out!! As for selling the part ownership back to the companies......I want to know what we are buying to begin with??? How do we benefit by sinking all this money into these failing companies???? They have been living high on the hog, execs getting huge insane bonuses and taking more than they really deserve.....and its the companies fault for operating like this!!! Let them dig themselves out or you can give them the bailout and we can watch their over paid friggin' execs hop a plane, the day after they get the funding, to some exotic locale' to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars pampering themselves!!! NO THANKS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!! I have had enough and its got to stop....look at the AIG execs......they are livin' it up on our buck....come on sheeple!!!

[eastendlu]

John as much as i want to buy American my wallet tells me otherwise.The car manufacturers have been losing ground since the first oil embargo when they did not want to get away from the gas guzzlers and let the Japanese automakers establish a foothold here with better quality cars and better gas mileage.How many years later and they are still playing catchup.Same thing happened to the electronics industry.Now we have to bail them out because of years and years of bad decisions and greed.I look at it this way would i invest in this company (GM) if i was looking to upgrade my portfolio?I have a feeling were are buying into some bad investments.I have one ? if all goes as planned and all these bailouts pay off will i see a reduction in my taxes in the future?Or do i just assume the position and touch my knees?

[eastendlu]

[Backbeach Jake]

My thoughts: GM refused to put an affordable, high mpg car in their showrooms, thus helping to cause this oil fiasco we have now. (sure prices seem low now but we all know that it is nowhere near over). They could have had a "Smart Car" but noooooo.
They have rewarded their execs far beyound anything that resembles performance. Being paid bonuses of hundreds of millions for steering the ship into the rocks is just dopey.
The jobs lost are the trumpcard and they know it. But if those jobs can go to "greener" manufacturers then the trump card is toilet paper. Take the bailout money and invest in greener companies.

I'm a lifelong GM buyer, but enough is enough. Never bought a foreign badged car or truck. Did own an F-250, but the same sentiment goes for Ford. See-Ya!

[MVbluefish]

As a consumer I always buy the best product for the money. Somewhere along the way American auto makers have become inferior. I won't bail them out by buying a overpriced unreliable gas guzzler why should I bail them out any other way. When I was a kid the "Cadillac" of something meant the absolute best. Nowadays it means second rate. The Government could care less if BigfishBaitCo. or Salty's goes belly up why should we care if the billionaires at GM aren't making billions anymore. Sink or swim thats what they tell me.

[striperman36]

i agree with NEBE, one way or another it's going to cost you and me billions. Why not try and get something out of it.

And you know if our reps and senators have their way, this will be an easy way to buy some votes are our expense.

Let's just nationalize all the auto manufacturers, their spin off subsidiaries, their suppliers and the dealer network.

And oh, throw out the union agreements with them all.

Cancel all the pensions and accumulated retirement savings of their workers.

Just like everybody else is.

[striperman36]

Oh and in case you didn't know

According to CNN

'One of the officials noted that about one in 10 jobs in America is tied to the auto industry and that if one of the companies goes bankrupt, it could have a massive spillover effect in the credit industry and other sectors'

And another
Unless recalled to DC. Congress is out of session until after Jan 20th 2009.

[ROCKFISH]

How about we give every family, a check for 20 grand, good towards the purchase of any new American car. That would bail out the automakers real quick and help the people as well.

[BigFish]

ROCKFISH for President!! Thats a great idea!