Ok NOW Palin's daugher is pregnant...

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

Mac, I think you're a nice guy, you love fishing, I love fishing, we've had a great time BS'ing away, but for christ sake do some fact checking.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008_Politico.htm

Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.

Now will you PLEASE stop preaching on the whole gun thing? Its a BS fabrication by the Michigan Militia wackjobs and the conservatives to scare you. Its politics.

HE is not going to take away your guns. Your TOWN will. And given where you live I really REALLY doubt that will happen.

And socialism? YOU LIVE IN THE PEOPLE'S COMMONWEALTH! HEALTH CARE IS MANDATORY! SOCIALIST PROGRAM!

Actually it isn't about the michigan militia. Obama has stated no one should be allowed to carry concealed. He wants to pass this as a federal law. Right now it is up to each individual state to decide. Not the whim of 1 man...

He wants to ban the manufacture, sale and posession of handguns.

Ban certain forms of ammunition used in hunting and sport shooting.

Increase federal taxes on weapons and ammunition by 500%. Thus making it to expensive for the "common man"

Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban (AWB) to include semi auto handguns and any weapon capable of holding over 5 rounds.

mandate a government license to purchase a firearm.

He is for micro stamping ammunition. (which is proven to not work)

Restore voting rights to a few million criminals who were convicted of using a gun to commit a violent crime.

Ban the use of firearms for home defense. (Illinois is like that now) CCW permits are non existant.

He also wants to appoint toSupreme Court, justices who think like he does.



Heller was just tried by the Supreme Court . The justices affirmed that 2A is an individual right. If Obama gets in he can appoint new justices and try to overturn the Heller decision.


I have news for ya. Creating new gun laws will not solve anything. States need to start enforcing the ones on the books now. There is an old adage that is very true; IF GUNS ARE OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS.




And socialism, REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH is one of the main things in this flawed government system. Where will he stop after taking profits from the oil companies ? maybe your 401K ???

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MAC

He wants to ban the manufacture, sale and posession of handguns.
Ban certain forms of ammunition used in hunting and sport shooting.
Increase federal taxes on weapons and ammunition by 500%. Thus making it to expensive for the "common man"
Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban (AWB) to include semi auto handguns and any weapon capable of holding over 5 rounds.
mandate a government license to purchase a firearm.
He is for micro stamping ammunition. (which is proven to not work)
Restore voting rights to a few million criminals who were convicted of using a gun to commit a violent crime.
Ban the use of firearms for home defense. (Illinois is like that now) CCW permits are non existant.
He also wants to appoint to Supreme Court, justices who think like he does.

According to who? Where is all this coming from? The NRA? Do they back any of this up with solid facts and quotes? Of course not! That wouldn't be seedy!
C'mon man, I just cited a direct quote of what he said. Back up your claims.

Heller was just tried by the Supreme Court . The justices affirmed that 2A is an individual right. If Obama gets in he can appoint new justices and try to overturn the Heller decision.

I think there's WAY bigger things to fight right now than Heller, and he knows that.

I have news for ya. Creating new gun laws will not solve anything. States need to start enforcing the ones on the books now. There is an old adage that is very true; IF GUNS ARE OUTLAWED, ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE GUNS.

The adage is a lie, only those with connections will have guns, not outlaws. Look what happened to them in the wild west, they got dead.

And socialism, REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH is one of the main things in this flawed government system. Where will he stop after taking profits from the oil companies ? maybe your 401K ???

You have a problem with him going after OPEC? That shocks me.

Social Security is already a wreck, hell, might as well screw up 401k's.

Take a long look at your avatar, McCain would love to see that burn.

My reality is this, we're screwed right now. Right wing presidents aren't doing it. We're in an epic debt. I'm looking forward, not at now.

The same things were said about Clinton as far as guns yet nothing ever actually happened, he didn't take away your guns, he passed a bunk republican created bill that made all the anti-gun people feel better about themselves and life went on as normal.

I'm tired of the same war monger idiots running the show. I don't want to think of more of this crap starting up and my friends or family or eventual children having to be drafted. I don't want to see people in office who couldn't give a damn about the environment and would rather pander to some multinational mining company than save the people they claim to have as 'family'.

2 more grunts died and 3 more were injured the other day. For what?

There comes a point where enough is enough.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by likwid

I'm tired of the same war monger idiots running the show. I don't want to think of more of this crap starting up and my friends or family or eventual children having to be drafted. I don't want to see people in office who couldn't give a damn about the environment and would rather pander to some multinational mining company than save the people they claim to have as 'family'.

2 more grunts died and 3 more were injured the other day. For what?

There comes a point where enough is enough.

And had McCain been president HE would have been smart enough NOT to go into Iraq. Many were duped into the WMD bit (sh t, I believed it too). Bush was (is) an IDIOT. ID TEN T to the core. BUT we (the US) broke it and we (the US) have to fix it. The ramifications are too high not to try, the ramifications are too high to FAIL. To pull the troops home before its time is a disservice to these guy - AS BAD AS GOING IN THE FIRST PLACE! Or the colossally effing up of L Paul Bremmer, Rummy, and Franks and their underlings.

Bush junior screwed up MAJOR, at length and repeated but we CAN'T walk away from there too early of the bleep really hits the fan. I would love to see Bush impeached, I'm still likely going to vote for McCain. Just wish it was 8 years ago.

Yet, time and time again I hear the extreme politico left state that McCain is going to repeat the last 8 years and that it is just more of the same. Personally, I do not believe that and I find the rhetoric coming from the left as distasteful as what comes from the right, more extreme as you get to the extreme.

Barry Obama ain't my guy. Biden I might have voted for. McCain I like and the added bonus is that with a DEM controlled congress and a Republican controlled Executive, neither the Tight Arsed Uber Conservative Religious Right can screw up my country nor the whacko-glue sniffin, Code Pink Marching Recreate 60Friekin'8 can SERIOUSLY screw up my country.

[likwid]

If McCain gets elected, hopefully he learned from the past and won't continue to drag the crap over there out.

But well played John. Thank you for a reasonable response.

The current problem with 'finishing' the job over there is radical groups are ALWAYS going to be an issue. Its a way of life. They don't cry and complain about things on the internet over there, they organize and (try) to fight back whether good or bad.

Look at the incident with the lawyers in Pakistan. A bunch of guys in suits and ties rioting! Hell, a lawyer here gets a smudge on his shirt and he fires his secretary then screams at his dry cleaner to make sure the stain comes out or he's never bringing his stuff there ever again! Hell I wonder how many underpaid college kids have been screamed at by people in suits because they forgot the splenda.

Its a different way of life and selling them on "democracy" is like trying to sell a snowmaker to eskimos.

But we've gotten off track.

[JohnR]

For you BSG fans:

http://www.tighroslin.com/

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

According to who? Where is all this coming from? The NRA? Do they back any of this up with solid facts and quotes? Of course not! That wouldn't be seedy!
C'mon man, I just cited a direct quote of what he said. Back up your claims.



I think there's WAY bigger things to fight right now than Heller, and he knows that.



The adage is a lie, only those with connections will have guns, not outlaws. Look what happened to them in the wild west, they got dead.



You have a problem with him going after OPEC? That shocks me.

Social Security is already a wreck, hell, might as well screw up 401k's.

Take a long look at your avatar, McCain would love to see that burn.

My reality is this, we're screwed right now. Right wing presidents aren't doing it. We're in an epic debt. I'm looking forward, not at now.

The same things were said about Clinton as far as guns yet nothing ever actually happened, he didn't take away your guns, he passed a bunk republican created bill that made all the anti-gun people feel better about themselves and life went on as normal.

I'm tired of the same war monger idiots running the show. I don't want to think of more of this crap starting up and my friends or family or eventual children having to be drafted. I don't want to see people in office who couldn't give a damn about the environment and would rather pander to some multinational mining company than save the people they claim to have as 'family'.

2 more grunts died and 3 more were injured the other day. For what?

There comes a point where enough is enough.

I'll get back to you later this afternoon. Have to get ready for work.

As far as your answers being direct quotes; did you hear him say these things or are you reading them ?

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Bara...un_Control.htm

Here's a little reading for you. But you will spin it around and refute it.

[likwid]

You just proved you didn't read any of it.

Look, you all said the same about Clinton.
Did he take away all your guns? Nope.
Is the left the big bad boogeyman who's gonna round up all your guns? Obviously not.
Is it typical grasping for straws? Yes.

Let me remind you, it was a REPUBLICAN who created the Brady Bill. It passed THE SENATE AND HOUSE. No one person magically made it go through. Obama can't get into office then magically take away your guns.

[MAC]

Originally Posted by likwid

You just proved you didn't read any of it.

Look, you all said the same about Clinton.
Did he take away all your guns? Nope.
Is the left the big bad boogeyman who's gonna round up all your guns? Obviously not.
Is it typical grasping for straws? Yes.

Let me remind you, it was a REPUBLICAN who created the Brady Bill. It passed THE SENATE AND HOUSE. No one person magically made it go through. Obama can't get into office then magically take away your guns.

Actually I did read it, did you? It reaffirms a lot of what I typed out above. Who is he to say who can or cannot carry concealed ? You read it how you want and I'll read it the way I want. My interpretation is what matters to me.


As far as registration, which he is for; that is the first step towards confiscation. He is very adamant about gun control. If you don't think so, you are looking through blinders.


I also like the way you try to twist things around when someone disagrees with you on a political issue. I can take the little diggers. But I will never vote for OBAMA.

It is actually kind of sad when the democratic party wants to nominate a JUNIOR SENATOR for the highest political office in out country. Even tough I don't like Hillary either, she would have made a better potential president.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MAC

Who is he to say who can or cannot carry concealed ?

If you think he can then you don't understand gun laws at all or how bills and laws get passed.

My interpretation is what matters to me.

Even if its wrong?

that is the first step towards confiscation. He is very adamant about gun control.

Are you REALLY sure you aren't a member michigan militia?

It is actually kind of sad when the democratic party wants to nominate a JUNIOR SENATOR for the highest political office in out country. Even tough I don't like Hillary either, she would have made a better potential president.

Why is it sad?
Because of what Fox tells you?

[spence]

Originally Posted by MAC

It is actually kind of sad when the democratic party wants to nominate a JUNIOR SENATOR for the highest political office in out country. Even tough I don't like Hillary either, she would have made a better potential president.

Actually MAC, Hillary Clinton is a JUNIOR SENATOR as well.

You forgot about Chuck Schumer

-spence

[MAC]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually MAC, Hillary Clinton is a JUNIOR SENATOR as well.

You forgot about Chuck Schumer

-spence

yes she is. BUT she did spend 8 years in the White House........