Planned Parenthood

[Jim in CT]

is doing more good for the pro-life movement, than anything I have seen in my lifetime. It keeps getting more and more disgusting.

Funny, the pro-abortion folks are decrying the fact that the videos were undercover. Isn't that the point, to get people to be more honest than they would be at a press conference? When someone secretly recorded Romney making a stupid statement about 47% not wanting to work, no one had any complaints about how the footage was obtained.

[Nebe]

I'm pro choice, but I will say I was very saddened to hear what that lady had to say.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'm pro choice, but I will say I was very saddened to hear what that lady had to say.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think there are multiple ladies on tape now. The callousness is something.

My bet is Congress votes to de-fund these ghouls, and Obama will veto it. He's never met an unborn baby who deserves anything other than a meat cleaver. As a state senator in Illinois, he twice blocked legislation that would have made it illegal for mothers to kill babies after they were born alive. If that sounds shocking to you, read it again, then look it up. It was called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, and he worked to kill it, letting mothers continue to kill babies who were born alive, and who were outside the womb. That's our POTUS! Hooray for us.

[spence]

So far I haven't seen any evidence any laws were broken, just some cold discussion of a subject that's difficult for most people to hear. The Govt budgets 76 million a year for fetal tissue research, Planned Parenthood isn't the only organization involved...

It's also worth remembering that the vast majority of Planned Parenthood's services (97%) are NOT abortion and the vast majority of those abortions are early and wouldn't likely even result in tissue available for research.

Also, Obama was pretty clear that his lack of support for the IL state BAIPA had nothing to do with limiting rights outside of the womb, it was that he didn't want the bill to be used as a political/legal tool to restrict women's rights inside the womb.

For all your ranting about cleaver wielding ghouls, the reality is more like cancer screening for poor women and new treatments for disease.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

So far I haven't seen any evidence any laws were broken, just some cold discussion of a subject that's difficult for most people to hear. The Govt budgets 76 million a year for fetal tissue research, Planned Parenthood isn't the only organization involved...

It's also worth remembering that the vast majority of Planned Parenthood's services (97%) are NOT abortion and the vast majority of those abortions are early and wouldn't likely even result in tissue available for research.

Also, Obama was pretty clear that his lack of support for the IL state BAIPA had nothing to do with limiting rights outside of the womb, it was that he didn't want the bill to be used as a political/legal tool to restrict women's rights inside the womb.

For all your ranting about cleaver wielding ghouls, the reality is more like cancer screening for poor women and new treatments for disease.

nauseating beyond words....but when has Spence not defended the indefensible?.......... par for the course

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

nauseating beyond words....but when has Spence not defended the indefensible?.......... par for the course

Did you say something?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Did you say something?

Selective hearing.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So far I haven't seen any evidence any laws were broken, just some cold discussion of a subject that's difficult for most people to hear. The Govt budgets 76 million a year for fetal tissue research, Planned Parenthood isn't the only organization involved...

It's also worth remembering that the vast majority of Planned Parenthood's services (97%) are NOT abortion and the vast majority of those abortions are early and wouldn't likely even result in tissue available for research.

Also, Obama was pretty clear that his lack of support for the IL state BAIPA had nothing to do with limiting rights outside of the womb, it was that he didn't want the bill to be used as a political/legal tool to restrict women's rights inside the womb.

For all your ranting about cleaver wielding ghouls, the reality is more like cancer screening for poor women and new treatments for disease.

You don't see any evidence, because you don't (or can't, beats me) see that which doesn't support The Narrative. You don't concede ICE has any legal standing to detain illegal aliens.

And if Obama's concern about the bill was that someone could widen the scope to include abortion restrictions, why the hell didn't he write a law that made killing living babies illegal, yet kept abortion legal? He's supposed to be a somewhat talented legislator, correct? Obviously, he wasn't all that bothered by what was happening, because he did exactly zilch to stop it and at the risk of sounding like The Dad Fisherman, try making that wrong, please.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You don't see any evidence, because you don't (or can't, beats me) see that which doesn't support The Narrative. You don't concede ICE has any legal standing to detain illegal aliens.

So what's the evidence that PP is profiting from a systemic scheme to trade in fetal tissue?

ICE has the authority to detain illegal aliens, nobody ever said they don't. That's not the issue, the problem is that ICE detainers unless accompanied by a warrant are simply a request. Just because it comes from a Federal agency doesn't mean it trumps local procedures...it's a fuzzy part of the law that should be corrected with more comprehensive reform.

And if Obama's concern about the bill was that someone could widen the scope to include abortion restrictions, why the hell didn't he write a law that made killing living babies illegal, yet kept abortion legal? He's supposed to be a somewhat talented legislator, correct? Obviously, he wasn't all that bothered by what was happening, because he did exactly zilch to stop it and at the risk of sounding like The Dad Fisherman, try making that wrong, please.

Is this even a big problem to begin with or just politically motivated legislation?

The irony of all this outrage is that if conservatives are successful in de-funding Planned Parenthood the number of abortions in the country is going to skyrocket...

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

So what's the evidence that PP is profiting from a systemic scheme to trade in fetal tissue?

.

Makes no difference whether they are making a profit or not, it's just plain inhuman and wrong.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Makes no difference whether they are making a profit or not, it's just plain inhuman and wrong.

Well, it makes a big difference under the law. If there's scientific gain and enough control to prevent abuse then I wouldn't say it's inhuman and wrong, but it certainly falls into an ethical gray area that should be taken very seriously.

But if you're pro-life the argument is moot anyway.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So far I haven't seen any evidence any laws were broken, .

Again, what you see, tends to depend upon the issue you are advocating.

Federal law requires that no alteration in the timing or method of abortion be done for the purposes of fetal tissue collection (42 U.S.C. 289g-1).

Tell me that the videos don't suggest that this federal law was broken.

[scottw]

excellent article http://www.nationalreview.com/node/422048/print

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

excellent article http://www.nationalreview.com/node/422048/print

Yes, researchers will pay 20K for fetal stem cells just because they're "curious" and "hopeful."

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Yes, researchers will pay 20K for fetal stem cells just because they're "curious" and "hopeful."

Yes, they will. Because as of this moment, nothing of any significance has come from that research.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Again, what you see, tends to depend upon the issue you are advocating.

Federal law requires that no alteration in the timing or method of abortion be done for the purposes of fetal tissue collection (42 U.S.C. 289g-1).

Tell me that the videos don't suggest that this federal law was broken.

The videos are heavily edited, they suggest what the editors want them to suggest.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The videos are heavily edited, they suggest what the editors want them to suggest.

Shocker.

Is it not enough for an investigation, Spence? The lady from Planned Parenthood, in the most recently released video, clearly says that abortion procedures are manipulated to maximize the harvestable tissue.

Spence, when a liberal group released the video of Romney's idiotic remark about 47% of Americans not wanting to work, were you equally concerned about how the footage was obtained? Or are you selective about when you apply this concern?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Shocker.

The lady from Planned Parenthood, in the most recently released video, clearly says that abortion procedures are manipulated to maximize the harvestable tissue.
so what exactly does that mean? It could mean they try to make sure there are organs to provide for research (of which she clearly stated that they don't make $ off of regardless of how the right is trying to spin the videos).

Spence, when a liberal group released the video of Romney's idiotic remark about 47% of Americans not wanting to work, were you equally concerned about how the footage was obtained? Or are you selective about when you apply this concern?

Totally different - Romney's comment was taped by someone working as a bartender at that event - Not by someone using the sleazy tactics of Breitbart who out and out lies about who he is and represents (of which I'm not so sure is bad).

It is funny watching you state that liberals hate how the video was obtained yet it is conserv. controlled state legisl. who have been passing laws prohibiting people from taking undercover video of farms and slaughter houses.

[Nebe]

Elizabeth warren had quite the speech yesterday for republicans on this. Ouch!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Elizabeth warren had quite the speech yesterday for republicans on this. Ouch!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Wrong. Her speech was dishoinest at the core. She claims that Republicans are attacking women's health. I can prove that's not true.

In the proposed bills that would de-fund Planned Parenthood, the bill specifically says that the money that would be denied to Planned Parenthood, would go to other organizations that provide reporductive health services, but which aren't in th ebusiness of harvesting dead babies for profit, which you yourself said was didsappointing.

So how, exactly, are the republicans attacking women's health, if they still propose to fund it to the same level? They just don't want taxpayer dollars to go to subsidize an organiuzation that's ghoulish.

Elizabeth Warren is as bad as it gets. She made a fortune flipping foreclosed houses, yet she attacks banks for making money off the poor and vulnerable. She attacks colleges for being too expensive, yet she had no quarrel with making $45ok a year to teach at Harvard Law. And she lied about being a Native american to get that job.

Politics aside, she is absolutely everything that is wrong with politicians. She has no shame.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Elizabeth warren had quite the speech yesterday for republicans on this. Ouch!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yes, I just watched "quite the speech". She said that she can't believe that in 2015, the US Senate would spend its time defunding "women's health".

Boy, to believe her, those mean Republlicans must really, really hate women. Right?

Wrong. As I said, the bill to de-fund Planned Parenthood calls to transfer that money to other women's health organizations who, unlike Planned Parenthood, aren't in the business of trafficking in baby organs. So the Republicans are not defunding "women's health", they are defunding one, single, morally reprehensible organiation.

Warren can speak so dishonestly, because she is assured that the zombies that support her will not question her, nor will they listen to a syllable that the other side has to say. She is disgusting.

The Senate bill doe snot reduce funding for women's health by one cent. The bill was also sponsored by Senator Joni Ernst from Iowa, who is a woman. So if this is a war on women, why is a woman leading the charge?

Nebe, doesn't that piss you off that Warren would do these things, and ask you to support her? And Hilary did the same exact thing.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Elizabeth warren had quite the speech yesterday for republicans on this. Ouch!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

sounds like she's on the Warpath again

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

sounds like she's on the Warpath again

She no like-um conservative pale face no want-um pay for baby part
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Fishpart]

Saw this today:

If you challenge a liberal who relies on the “heavily edited” defense to tell you what, specifically, the full video shows that reveals that the edited version is unfair in some way, you will get a blank stare in response. I promise – try it for yourself.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Saw this today:

If you challenge a liberal who relies on the “heavily edited” defense to tell you what, specifically, the full video shows that reveals that the edited version is unfair in some way, you will get a blank stare in response. I promise – try it for yourself.

Right. If they coiuld show that the PP folks never actually said these things, but the words about baby harvesting were dubbed in later, that might matter.

It if goes against The Narrative, it can't be legitimate.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fishpart

Saw this today:

If you challenge a liberal who relies on the “heavily edited” defense to tell you what, specifically, the full video shows that reveals that the edited version is unfair in some way, you will get a blank stare in response. I promise – try it for yourself.

I think it would be more interesting to challenge a conservative as to what specifically the edited video shows that reveals Planned Parenthood is violating the law in some way.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think it would be more interesting to challenge a conservative as to what specifically the edited video shows that reveals Planned Parenthood is violating the law in some way.

You asked that before, I answered it spot-on, here it is again.

It is a violation of federal law to alter an abortion procedure in any way (tinming, method, positioning, etc), for the purposes of influencing the available tissue to harvest afterwards.

Now, in the videos, there are Planned Parenthood staff making very specific references to their ability to manipulate the procedure to get maximum available baby parts in the end.

So how can anyone possibly fail to conclude, that there is evidence that the law is being broken?

Have fun answering that.

[Jackbass]

Regardless of what side you are on the argument between you two sounds fairly Ghoulish to me. To be honest it is kind of disgusting. Harvesting Organs from terminated pregnancies. WTF
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Just read that Jeb's grandfather, Sen. Prescott Bush was PP's first treasurer and his name was on fundraising letters.

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Just read that Jeb's grandfather, Sen. Prescott Bush was PP's first treasurer and his name was on fundraising letters.

Oh he certainly was heavily involved with PP.

It does make you wonder if all this eugenics hype is a lot of nothing and the real issue is about women's health and control over their own bodies. Remember, back then abortions were done in back alleys and even information about contraception was illegal.