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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
10-31-2019, 10:28 AM
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#1
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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I’ve long said (w/ others) that the WH and especially the president are astoundingly, even historically, weak in their ability to assert executive power to control what happens within the administration. The Executive branch response to the impeachment inquiry is revealing.
On 10-8, WHC Cipollone said that to avoid “lasting institutional harm on the Executive Branch and lasting damage to the separation of power, Trump *cannot permit his Administration to participate in this partisan inquiry under these circumstances*.”
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...10-08-2019.pdf
This was, like many Trumpian threats, empty. In the last few weeks we have seen former and, more amazingly, current officials of the Trump administration appearing before Congress to discuss intimate presidential conversations related to core presidential responsibilities.
Yovanovitch, Kent, Cooper, Taylor, and Sondland, all current executive officials, have testified to the president’s detriment on Ukraine matter and in defiance of WH instructions not to cooperate. I think Vidman defied the WH as well, but cannot confirm that.
This is a really remarkable breakdown of soft and hard presidential power. Congress might have legal authority to access some of this info. It’s a complicated question how much. But the WH isn't even putting up a fight.
The WH is asserting no legal authorities, and does not appear even to be trying to manage what executive officials can and cannot say. The WH has no juice, no tools. The Cipollone letter was pure bluster. In so, so many ways, Trump is a weak, not a strong, president.
Jack Goldsmith
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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10-31-2019, 11:03 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Upper Bucks County PA
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
The WH has no juice, no tools. The Cipollone letter was pure bluster. In so, so many ways, Trump is a weak, not a strong, president.
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He doesn't need to "be strong", he doesn't need to keep people from testifying. He knows the House Dumbocrats will do what Democrats do and he will wear it as a badge of honor.
What the hell will the Democrats screaming "we impeached him" do, how will their "impeached" screeching and bleating be more damaging than what they are already screeching and bleating about? He is eager to see the 31 vulnerable,Trump won district Democrats act dumb and vote party and then many lose their seats next November.
He doesn't need to play any game that the Democrats recognize as "powerful", he knows he isn't going to be convicted and removed by the Senate and he knows he will emerge stronger than ever in the eyes of sane citizens and he knows most of all, he will win a resounding victory in 2020.
When the IG report and Durham's indictments and Barr's prosecutions send Democrat favorites to prison, it will just make victory all the sweeter.
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You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence.
If you are incapable of violence, you are not peaceful, you are just harmless.
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10-31-2019, 10:58 AM
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#3
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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When Vindman was asked to go along with a transaction that had nothing to do with policy, but only the president's personal interests, he was taken aback.
Perhaps someone knows of any anti corruption agenda that this administration put forth other than ones that involve his political adversaries
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10-31-2019, 11:08 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Guys like Pete and Paul would rather ignore the truth and continue to believe what the media feeds them. Liberal fools.
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10-31-2019, 04:46 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,200
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The whistleblower knew what Trump did was wrong and went up the chain of command to inform people of it. His actions where not sedition and to call him that is dishonest and scummy.
Embrace your scumminess.
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11-01-2019, 08:08 AM
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#6
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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I think someone has discovered bureaucracy and thinks it should be perfect.
All you need to do is get involved with government a little bit and you'll figure out that the red tape is not a single line.
More like the worst backlash you've ever had.
Politicians successfully navigate it, but.......
Trump doesn't know how to cast.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 07:55 AM
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#7
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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It’s CNN and the rest of the deep state, obviously
John Durham accepted disinformation from a Kremlin cutout. His investigation is tainted and not legitimate.
Stephan Roh, who i’m going to call Mifsud’s handler although he’s officially his lawyer, gave Durham an affidavit allegedly from Mifsud. Roh has worked for Russian oligarchs. Mother in law worked alongside KGB.
He was working for a Russian government contractor in 2016 and has Moscow offices. That Durham accepted his information delegitimizes the whole investigation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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11-22-2019, 09:05 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Upper Bucks County PA
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
It’s CNN and the rest of the deep state, obviously
John Durham accepted disinformation from a Kremlin cutout. His investigation is tainted and not legitimate.
Stephan Roh, who i’m going to call Mifsud’s handler although he’s officially his lawyer, gave Durham an affidavit allegedly from Mifsud. Roh has worked for Russian oligarchs. Mother in law worked alongside KGB.
He was working for a Russian government contractor in 2016 and has Moscow offices. That Durham accepted his information delegitimizes the whole investigation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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That's some top-level yarn spinning there. As if the Durham investigation hinges on an affidavit from Misfud. Why even bring Misfud up? My post above is about the Carter Page FISA warrant that was based on the Steele dossier . . . Misfud was an operative of Italian Intelligence Services working at the behest of our CIA to set-up / dirty-up Papadopoulos.
I do find your reasoning above interesting because we can run a simple experiment; will you consistently apply the same standard you have established above (that a single tainted affidavit de-legitimizes an entire operation) to grade Operation Crossfire Hurricane?
When the entire foundation for the Trump / Russia investigation is proven illegitimate because of a series of false / misrepresented affidavits leading to illegally obtained FISA warrants combined with the injection of Russian disinformation (Steele dossier) into all levels of the FBI, will you condemn as illegitimate, the entire Trump / Russia investigation, including the Mueller investigation?
We will see.
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You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence.
If you are incapable of violence, you are not peaceful, you are just harmless.
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11-22-2019, 09:27 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
It’s CNN and the rest of the deep state, obviously
John Durham accepted disinformation from a Kremlin cutout. His investigation is tainted and not legitimate.
Stephan Roh, who i’m going to call Mifsud’s handler although he’s officially his lawyer, gave Durham an affidavit allegedly from Mifsud. Roh has worked for Russian oligarchs. Mother in law worked alongside KGB.
He was working for a Russian government contractor in 2016 and has Moscow offices. That Durham accepted his information delegitimizes the whole investigation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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well, that explains why the guy from the FBI altered the document to get the warrant....
pete...get some help soon |
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11-22-2019, 09:22 AM
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#10
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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There were plenty of reasons to look at the Trump campaign and what he has done that benefits Putin warrants more scrutiny, though after listening to Sondland I am more apt to think it is just due to incompetence and Floridaman's failure to educate himself.
Here are some reasons why the investigation was warranted.
First, there were multiple, separate warnings from allied intelligence agencies to U.S. officials about Russia’s relationship with the Trump campaign. Beginning in late 2015 and going at least through the summer of 2016, the United Kingdom, Germany, Estonia, Poland, the Netherlands and France all informed U.S. officials about interactions between Trump associates and Russians.
Second, an alarming number of figures known to U.S. law enforcement to have Russian links joined the Trump campaign in rapid succession. Michael Flynn joined the campaign as Trump’s national security advisor in February 2016, just two months after he was paid $45,000 to speak at an RT gala in Moscow where he sat next to Russian President Vladimir Putin. Considering Flynn was the former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), this behavior surely would have caught the U.S. Intelligence Community’s attention, especially once he joined the campaign. Carter Page, who years earlier had allegedly been recruited by Russian spies in New York and interviewed by the FBI about it, joined the campaign as a foreign policy aide in March 2016. Paul Manafort, who would eventually become campaign chairman, joined on March 28, 2016. Manafort had spent years working for pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarchs and had been interviewed by the FBI reportedly about this work in 2013 and 2014.
Third, Trump’s own behavior would have raised red flags for law enforcement and intelligence agencies. During the campaign, Trump was up front about wanting Russia’s help, publicly calling for Russia to hack his opponent even after it was known that Russia was interfering in the election. He was also pursuing a lucrative business deal in Moscow, which he lied to the American people about, claiming he had “nothing to do with Russia” .
Fourth, the 2016 election was being attacked by Russian military officers, and this necessitated an investigation. Public reports of Russia’s hacking of the DNC go back to June 14, 2016, and Wikileaks began releasing the stolen emails from the DNC on July 22, 2016. Trump was even made aware in August, during his first intelligence briefing as the Republican nominee, that Russia would probably try to spy on his campaign, and he and his campaign were advised to contact the FBI about anything suspicious.
Fifth, the so-called “deep state” plot hinged on the idea that launching an investigation into Trump would damage his campaign — but the investigation wasn’t revealed until after Trump had won. FBI Director James Comey publicly revealed the investigation on March 20, 2017, months after Trump had been elected and inaugurated. And it wasn’t until after Trump had fired Comey and invited the Russian foreign minister into the Oval Office to laugh about relieving the pressure of the Russia investigation that the FBI opened another investigation into Trump himself, seeking to determine “whether he had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests.”
With all of this happening in such short order, it would have been unthinkable for the FBI and U.S. intelligence agencies not to have investigated the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 02:05 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Upper Bucks County PA
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
There were plenty of reasons to look at the Trump campaign
>SNIP<
With all of this happening in such short order, it would have been unthinkable for the FBI and U.S. intelligence agencies not to have investigated the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia.
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Well, in reading that I can say you are an expert in finding and disseminating disinformation, obfuscation and misrepresentations.
Always remember, the McCabe "small group" cabal desperately needed the Page FISA warrant. They would do (and did) anything to get that application to the FISC.
The Page FISA warrant was never about him, it was to get the FISA "two hop" warrant * for everyone Page was in communication with in the previous 18 months. This illegal legal access to tens of thousands of people was needed to try to assign plausible "legal" footing for the illegal FISA §702(16)(17) searches the small group had been doing going back to 2015.
* "If, for example, a surveillance target has talked to 200 different people in the last 18 months (a low estimate based on our informal sampling), and if each of those 200 people has also called or been called by 200 different people, then a two-hop request would vacuum up records relating to 40,000 people. And it only gets worse if one of the numbers in the first hop belongs to a high-volume caller . . . ."
ACLU, Are "Two Hops" Too Many?
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You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence.
If you are incapable of violence, you are not peaceful, you are just harmless.
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11-22-2019, 02:43 PM
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#12
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReelinRod
Well, in reading that I can say you are an expert in finding and disseminating disinformation, obfuscation and misrepresentations.
Always remember, the McCabe "small group" cabal desperately needed the Page FISA warrant. They would do (and did) anything to get that application to the FISC.
The Page FISA warrant was never about him, it was to get the FISA "two hop" warrant * for everyone Page was in communication with in the previous 18 months. This illegal legal access to tens of thousands of people was needed to try to assign plausible "legal" footing for the illegal FISA §702(16)(17) searches the small group had been doing going back to 2015.
* "If, for example, a surveillance target has talked to 200 different people in the last 18 months (a low estimate based on our informal sampling), and if each of those 200 people has also called or been called by 200 different people, then a two-hop request would vacuum up records relating to 40,000 people. And it only gets worse if one of the numbers in the first hop belongs to a high-volume caller . . . ."
ACLU, Are "Two Hops" Too Many?
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As I said before
FISA is the bridge between the two that enables law enforcement to go from intelligence to predicate.
It is pretty dangerous territory from a constitutional standpoint but each president, including Floridaman, has continued it since it started.
I hope that they have been presented with serious justification for doing so and considered it carefully. |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 09:41 AM
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#13
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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The problem with looking at CIA and other intelligence reports from a law enforcement eye is they are not nearly the same.
Intelligence need not be based on a predicate but instead looks at all available information for possible threats. With this they then look further for evidence of what is going on.
Law enforcement needs a predicate to investigate, i.e. evidence of a crime.
FISA is the bridge between the two that enables law enforcement to go from intelligence to predicate.
It is pretty dangerous territory from a constitutional standpoint but each president, including Floridaman, has continued it since it started.
I hope that they have been presented with serious justification for doing so and considered it carefully.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 09:56 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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open a window in the bunker...get some oxygen to your brain pete
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11-22-2019, 10:15 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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America 1 st
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11-22-2019, 11:14 AM
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#16
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Russia 1 st
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Fixed it for you |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Your hopes will not be validated.
Trump has turned up the heat in Russia but your agenda prevents you from noticing. Have a drink and go hunting while Trump does the heavy lifting for you.
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11-22-2019, 11:33 AM
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#18
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Trump has done no permanent damage to Russia
The little people are suffering and neither Putin or Trump care
Baby steps without allies for US vs Giant steps gaining allies in Eastern Europe, Middle East, Africa, Central America and the rest of the world that will be felt for years.
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 01:21 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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If you paid attention to world affairs then you would have a greater understanding.
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11-22-2019, 01:36 PM
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#20
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
If you paid attention to world affairs then you would have a greater understanding.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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If you look further than Faux you might figure something out
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 03:37 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
If you look further than Faux you might figure something out
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Ha, I get my news here most of the time. You are so lost in Trump that you can’t keep track of current events.👍🏿🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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11-22-2019, 03:52 PM
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#22
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Ha, I get my news here most of the time. You are so lost in Trump that you can’t keep track of current events.👍🏿🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Here’s some news for you
Within 3 days of China agreeing to provide $500m in loans to an Indonesian theme park that the Trump Org has a deal to license Trump's name to, Trump ordered sanctions be rescinded against a major Chinese telecom company.
But Biden is corrupt?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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11-22-2019, 04:39 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Ha, I get my news here most of the time.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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why would you need to go anywhere else...re-Pete provides voluminous content right here... |
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11-22-2019, 04:19 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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You just made my point
🤡🤡
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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11-22-2019, 10:53 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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If his wife ever New what he is up to
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11-23-2019, 08:38 AM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,124
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So lets use the Trump defense .. even if the fisa warrants were changed (still dont know what changed) that even with that change .. if they never were charged tried and jailed. Whats the big deal... if its ok to ask a foreign goverment to investigate a us citizen with out evidence. It should be ok for the FBI investigate an american with the same amount of evidence
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11-23-2019, 12:04 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
So lets use the Trump defense .. even if the fisa warrants were changed (still dont know what changed) that even with that change .. if they never were charged tried and jailed. Whats the big deal... if its ok to ask a foreign goverment to investigate a us citizen with out evidence. It should be ok for the FBI investigate an american with the same amount of evidence
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Do i have this right? You’re saying that as long as I’m not charged with a crime, it’s no big deal if the FBI knowingly falsifies a warrant to spy on me? That the unjustified suspension of my right to privacy is no big deal, unless I’m indicted? WOW. I mean, wow.
Have you ever even glanced at the constitution?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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11-23-2019, 08:43 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Good enough Wayne.👍🏿
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11-23-2019, 08:53 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles
Good enough Wayne.👍🏿
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Cant have it both ways. Sorry
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11-23-2019, 09:09 AM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
Cant have it both ways. Sorry
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Not looking for both ways,I said good enough.👍🏿
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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