President Biden says that 3,500,000,000,000 equals 0.

[Pete F.]

Rounding error #1

The simplest change would be to end basis step-up at death, eliminating the “Angel of Death” loophole. Eliminating basis step-up for heirs would result in a regime called “carryover basis.” The basis of an asset would not change when bequests are made. When the asset is later sold by an heir, the taxable basis would be the same as when the decedent owned it. Under a carryover basis system, capital gains tax would continue to be owed when the gain is realized. An asset that was purchased at $100, bequeathed and inherited at $300, and sold by the heir at $350 would have a capital gain of $250. Under the current system with step-up in basis, the capital gain would only be $50.

Shifting to carryover basis discourages lock-in and tax shelters. The Joint Committee on Taxation staff calculate that a policy ending basis step-up implemented this year would raise $104.9 billion over the next 10 years. In addition, curtailing tax avoidance would allow policymakers to raise the capital gains tax rate and generate increased revenues, without generating as much tax avoidance as would occur with a higher rate under the current system.

A carryover basis regime maintains the practice of taxing capital gains at realization and thus retains the advantages related to investor liquidity and ease of valuation.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Nope, 275 B a year isn't a rounding error. But Warren was also reportedly the famous Native American professor at Harvard, who is reportedly opposed to everyone profiting from foreclosures except her and her husband, and who also reportedly thinks skyrocketing tuition is wrong unless all that wampum flows into her saddlebag.

Makes no difference, and your "wampum" remark is insulting to my Native American heritage.

[Pete F.]

Rounding error #2
Accrual taxation represents a major break from the current system as a move away from the realization principle, and it has several advantages. It would eliminate the lock-in effect, the use of capital-gains-bearing assets as tax shelters, and most of the incentive to shift labor income into capital gains. Because it restricts avoidance, accrual taxation would allow for a significantly higher tax rate on capital gains without inducing significant avoidance. Accrual taxation brings the tax system in line with the basic definition of income outlined above. It would increase the tax base and thus raise revenues. Using Survey of Consumer Finance data, Batchelder and Kamin calculate that accrual taxation (a) on marketable assets only and (b) limited to the top 1 percent of households would raise $1.7 trillion over ten years, even after allowing for a 15 percent avoidance rate.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I've been on a school board, that is how teacher contracts work.

A principal is an administrator and can't arbitrarily change work rules. That's not how it works.

right. so asking teachers to spend three minutes looking in the hallway, is a big “change to work
rules” when you’re in a union, something they wouldn’t have to ask twice if teachers in a private school.

That’s the difference. It’s a big difference to many people. It’s indicative that public teachers answer to the union, while private school teachers answer to the families they serve, and that difference in mindset, is precisely why private schools are so much better. it’s why people
have disdain for the unions.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Rounding error #3

Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers

The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. In 2018, the top 1 percent of households ranked by income obtained 69 percent of realized long-term capital gains; the top 20 percent received 90 percent of the gains.

the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages, if the asset was held for at least a year before selling. Realized capital gains face a top statutory marginal income tax rate of 20 percent plus a supplemental net investment income tax rate of 3.8 percent, for a combined total of 23.8 percent. Wages face a top marginal tax rate of 37 percent, plus a Medicare tax rate of 2.9 percent and a supplemental tax of 0.9 percent, for a combined rate of 40.8 percent.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

right. so asking teachers to spend three minutes looking in the hallway, is a big “change to work
rules” when you’re in a union, something they wouldn’t have to ask twice if teachers in a private school.

That’s the difference. It’s a big difference to many people. It’s indicative that public teachers answer to the union, while private school teachers answer to the families they serve, and that difference in mindset, is precisely why private schools are so much better. it’s why people
have disdain for the unions.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I did not say it was a "big" change.
It's a change, and I suppose I could just tell my insurance company that I want a little more coverage, they wouldn't want compensation.

You seem to think since you work in the private sector, you are entitled to a higher income with less responsibility.

And those who teach should just be grateful for the opportunity and behave correctly.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Rounding error #3

Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers

The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. In 2018, the top 1 percent of households ranked by income obtained 69 percent of realized long-term capital gains; the top 20 percent received 90 percent of the gains.

the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages, if the asset was held for at least a year before selling. Realized capital gains face a top statutory marginal income tax rate of 20 percent plus a supplemental net investment income tax rate of 3.8 percent, for a combined total of 23.8 percent. Wages face a top marginal tax rate of 37 percent, plus a Medicare tax rate of 2.9 percent and a supplemental tax of 0.9 percent, for a combined rate of 40.8 percent.

"Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers"

Check your math. Those numbers are wrong. Nobody has income of $450 billion, which is what your math implies. There aren't 20 people whose combined *income* is $9 trillion.

"The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. "

Duh! Because they have the most money to invest. Would you pass a law setting a cap for how much someone can invest? If Jeff Bezos invests in the stock market, does that harm you somehow? If those wealthy people took all their money out of the stock market and buried it in their backyards, who would be better off? No one. Absolutely no one. So why do you care?

You're fixated on a small number of uber wealthy people whose wealth may not ne equitable, but it isn't hurting anybody.

I notice that you ALWAYS post how big of a piece of the pie is owned by those at the top, but you NEVER post the share of the total tax burden currently paid by them. Why is that? Answer - the truth doesn't fully support your narrative that they are freeloaders who aren't paying their fair share.

"the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages"

And there's a darn good reason for that...investing involves risk. Lots of risk, many different kinds of risk. It's good if we incentivize people to invest.

I posted a link showing that the top 1% had 20% of the total income, but paid 40% of the total tax. In total, we have a progressive tax system. We can talk about tweaking the rates to make it work better, but we don't have a regressive tax system, not even close. You never, ever include that part. Because you ignore everything which doesn't serve the liberal Narrative.

I don't like the idea of billionaires living near people who can't afford medical care, I hate that. But the math could not be more clear, you can't help large numbers of people by taking more from a small number of zillionaires. Re-distribution is part of the solution obviously, but you also need to give more people at the bottom the tools and the incentive, to lift themselves up. Liberals tend to purposely ignore that part. It's not that hard to do in most cases. A strong family with great parents is 95% of what's needed. Liberals won't admit that, either.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Makes no difference, and your "wampum" remark is insulting to my Native American heritage.

A history of Lies and hypocrisy make a difference to some people. To some people, it impacts the credibility of the liar & hypocrite.

If you're not insulted (and you aren't) that she deliberately appropriated the unfathomable misery your ancestors endured for her own personal gain, then please spare me your fake outrage at my remark. If you give her a pass for what she did (and we all know you do), my remark is nothing. Either it's wrong to exploit Native Americans, or it's OK. But you believe it's ok when liberals do it, and wrong when conservatives do it, and it doesn't work that way, sorry. You have to choose whether it's OK or not, and apply that standard to everyone, or else you don't actually have a principled position.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers"

Check your math. Those numbers are wrong. Nobody has income of $450 billion, which is what your math implies. There aren't 20 people whose combined *income* is $9 trillion.

Oh, You thought 20 people not percent. That would have worked better for you

"The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. "

No, because they can take compensation as stock options, etc instead of wages

Duh! Because they have the most money to invest. Would you pass a law setting a cap for how much someone can invest? If Jeff Bezos invests in the stock market, does that harm you somehow? If those wealthy people took all their money out of the stock market and buried it in their backyards, who would be better off? No one. Absolutely no one. So why do you care?

You're fixated on a small number of uber wealthy people whose wealth may not ne equitable, but it isn't hurting anybody.

I notice that you ALWAYS post how big of a piece of the pie is owned by those at the top, but you NEVER post the share of the total tax burden currently paid by them. Why is that? Answer - the truth doesn't fully support your narrative that they are freeloaders who aren't paying their fair share.

"the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages"

And there's a darn good reason for that...investing involves risk. Lots of risk, many different kinds of risk. It's good if we incentivize people to invest.

I posted a link showing that the top 1% had 20% of the total income, but paid 40% of the total tax. In total, we have a progressive tax system. We can talk about tweaking the rates to make it work better, but we don't have a regressive tax system, not even close. You never, ever include that part. Because you ignore everything which doesn't serve the liberal Narrative.

Because you use the figure for income, not total compensation and it skews the numbers. It's done on purpose so you think the tax rate is more progressive than it is.

I don't like the idea of billionaires living near people who can't afford medical care, I hate that. We spend 50% more per capita than anyone else who has universal care, and who gets that money? But the math could not be more clear, you can't help large numbers of people by taking more from a small number of zillionaires. Re-distribution is part of the solution obviously, but you also need to give more people at the bottom the tools and the incentive, to lift themselves up. Liberals tend to purposely ignore that part. It's not that hard to do in most cases. A strong family with great parents is 95% of what's needed. Liberals won't admit that, either.

Conservatives haven't found a way to legislate that yet and plenty of the people they promote aren't great examples.

If a man had five children by three different baby mamas, would that be ok?

Or Rep. Cawthorn who now calls for holy war: “It’s time for us to stand up and declare boldly that, as men & women of faith, we have a duty to stand against tyranny .. It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows .. (against) people who hate the things we believe in.” (He's got a couple of closets also)

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Conservatives haven't found a way to legislate that yet and plenty of the people they promote aren't great examples.

If a man had five children by three different baby mamas, would that be ok?

Or Rep. Cawthorn who now calls for holy war: “It’s time for us to stand up and declare boldly that, as men & women of faith, we have a duty to stand against tyranny .. It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows .. (against) people who hate the things we believe in.” (He's got a couple of closets also)

stock options are usually taxed as income, not as capital gains. you’re just making stuff up.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Conservatives haven't found a way to legislate that yet and plenty of the people they promote aren't great examples.

If a man had five children by three different baby mamas, would that be ok?

Or Rep. Cawthorn who now calls for holy war: “It’s time for us to stand up and declare boldly that, as men & women of faith, we have a duty to stand against tyranny .. It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows .. (against) people who hate the things we believe in.” (He's got a couple of closets also)

who cares if elected republicans aren’t good fathers? does ANYONE look to politicians to see how they should behave?

“stand against tyranny” is a declaration of war?

that’s not a stretch.

Pete, try saying this 100 times…stock options are usually taxed as ordinary income…stock
options are usually taxed as ordinary income…

i got options when i worked at travelers and the hartford. ordinary income.

keep saying it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

who cares if elected republicans aren’t good fathers? does ANYONE look to politicians to see how they should behave?

“stand against tyranny” is a declaration of war?

that’s not a stretch.

Pete, try saying this 100 times…stock options are usually taxed as ordinary income…stock
options are usually taxed as ordinary income…

i got options when i worked at travelers and the hartford. ordinary income.

keep saying it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Republicans aren’t good at anything but saying saying no and are all generally dishonest and crazy hypocritical.. and please spare us the both sides do it .. Nonesense

And willingness to tank the economy for political gain by refusing to raise the Debt ceiling.. a game that moderates and independents see as reckless and hypocritical and most of the country . Only the MAGA base see it as owning the libs
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

You already stated that you require nothing moral about your leaders, political or other.

Steve Bannon’s ‘shock troops.’ Madison Cawthorn’s ‘holy war.’ Schools requiring the teaching of only ‘patriotic education.’ ‘Alternative facts’ We are well down the rabbit hole towards a fascist America. None of this is normal.

Your boss the almost billionaire, takes stock options because they are just like cash, OK
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Pandora Papers show how tax havens are part of the global inequity problem

The massive leak shows wealthy individuals from all over the world parking money in Caribbean tax havens, hiding assets in foreign trusts and shielding their wealth in opaque Panamanian corporations

While prominent Americans largely escaped the investigation’s gaze, the United States itself did not, as researchers found that the US now serves as an overseas tax haven for many.


Experts told NPR that the US’ low tax rates (compared to other developed nations) contributed to the findings, which indicated that some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad; others were found to be likely using companies whose finances were not revealed in the latest batch of documents.

And some Americans still use the same methods to hide assets when under investigation or facing lawsuits,
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Republicans aren’t good at anything but saying saying no and are all generally dishonest and crazy hypocritical.. and please spare us the both sides do it .. Nonesense

And willingness to tank the economy for political gain by refusing to raise the Debt ceiling.. a game that moderates and independents see as reckless and hypocritical and most of the country . Only the MAGA base see it as owning the libs
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Republicans aren’t good at anything but saying saying no and are all generally dishonest and crazy hypocritical.. and please spare us the both sides do it"

Stupid. Conservatives are actually a little more charitable than liberals, the data makes that crystal clear. Tell the unborn the GOP isn't good for anything...And which states are losing population, which states are gaining population? Which states have the largest debt? I'd like to see you attempt to answer that.

"And willingness to tank the economy for political gain by refusing to raise the Debt ceiling"

That's pure hypocrisy. But sorry to say it, both sides only care about the dangers of debt when the other party controls the white house.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Pandora Papers show how tax havens are part of the global inequity problem

The massive leak shows wealthy individuals from all over the world parking money in Caribbean tax havens, hiding assets in foreign trusts and shielding their wealth in opaque Panamanian corporations

While prominent Americans largely escaped the investigation’s gaze, the United States itself did not, as researchers found that the US now serves as an overseas tax haven for many.


Experts told NPR that the US’ low tax rates (compared to other developed nations) contributed to the findings, which indicated that some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad; others were found to be likely using companies whose finances were not revealed in the latest batch of documents.

And some Americans still use the same methods to hide assets when under investigation or facing lawsuits,
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad;"

Would you be better off if more Americans stashed their money abroad? How would that help you, or poor people, exactly?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad;"

Would you be better off if more Americans stashed their money abroad? How would that help you, or poor people, exactly?

if not for the guy stashing money in panama or wherever...the guy working at McDonalds would be filthy rich....

amazing how obsessed some are with other people's money, assets, success.....

if only we could institute global communism to combat this global inequity...

gotta give the chinese credit for coming up with the idea to spread global communism through a pandemic by creating a nasty virus...pretty brilliant and working fabulously

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

and your "wampum" remark is insulting to my Native American heritage.

idiot

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We are well down the rabbit hole towards a fascist America. None of this is normal.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

who is more fascist?....the people that want everyone locked down, injected, masked and requiring papers everywhere they go and unquestioned obedience to the federal government and their directives, want to know every time 600 dollars enters or leaves your bank account, collude with big tech and the media and corporations censor information and to push government narratives and propoganda ....or the people who don't?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Republicans aren’t good at anything but saying saying no and are all generally dishonest and crazy hypocritical.. and please spare us the both sides do it .. Nonesense


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

we are so fortunate to be led by moral, honest democrats who only do what is in our best interest...true public servants

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

who is more fascist?....the people that want everyone locked down, injected, masked and requiring papers everywhere they go and unquestioned obedience to the federal government and their directives, want to know every time 600 dollars enters or leaves your bank account, collude with big tech and the media and corporations censor information and to push government narratives and propoganda ....or the people who don't?

What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom

What we got: FOX/GOP fighting against masks and vaccines, causing the need for longer restrictions and more mandates, so they can keep their followers angry about Dems attacking their freedom

Steve Bannon said the other morning he will have 20K "shock troops" on standby. "We control this country," he added. "We have to start acting like it."

Throughout the federal deployment to Portland, officers from the Federal Protective Services requested assistance from the Department of Homeland Security’s Homeland Identities Targeting and Exploitation Center to search protesters’ cellphones. That team found the searches were illegal, and resisted pressure from senior Homeland Security leaders to assist FPS.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

if not for the guy stashing money in panama or wherever...the guy working at McDonalds would be filthy rich....

amazing how obsessed some are with other people's money, assets, success.....

if only we could institute global communism to combat this global inequity...

gotta give the chinese credit for coming up with the idea to spread global communism through a pandemic by creating a nasty virus...pretty brilliant and working fabulously

Obsessed not, but if I were still working and paying high taxes, I’d be a bit pissed someone with millions or billions is paying almost nothing.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

we are so fortunate to be led by moral, honest democrats who only do what is in our best interest...true public servants

That’s rich, Trump was as we all know always on the moral high ground and never thinking about what’s good for him and his family.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

That’s rich, Trump was as we all know always on the moral high ground and never thinking about what’s good for him and his family.

pretty sure no one here has ever suggested he was on the high moral ground and not thinking about what's good for him and his family...

keep arguing with yourself

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

but if I were still working and paying high taxes
so you think taxes are too high?


I’d be a bit pissed someone with millions or billions is paying almost nothing.

name one....define almost nothing

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What we got: FOX/GOP fighting against masks and vaccines, causing the need for longer restrictions and more mandates,

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they are working world wide apparently....

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

who is more fascist?....the people that want everyone locked down, injected, masked and requiring papers everywhere they go and unquestioned obedience to the federal government and their directives, want to know every time 600 dollars enters or leaves your bank account, collude with big tech and the media and corporations censor information and to push government narratives and propoganda ....or the people who don't?

Wow nice rant Q

Deposits or withdrawalsOver $10,000 Are reported not 600
Please get informed
The only unquestionably obedience I’ve seen has been The Trump MAGA cult. The guy you didn’t vote for but support with out question

And back to the press and FB is the enemy of the people colluding only with Dems.. so much for Parler

Parler’s Popularity Plummets As Data Reveals Little Appetite For Returning ‘Free Speech’ App Favored By Conservatives Forbes

Parler active users 2.3 mil active
Twitter 206 million snap chat 347 million TikTok has reached 1 billion

Conservatives are a dying breed unable to accept they are in the minority in America being saved by the electoral college and how the Senator are appointed . And Americans are paying attention to their obstructing ways .

But I thought conservatives love Israel they have a vaccine passport
They must be fascists
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

Bans + Mandates = Not Freedom
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

if not for the guy stashing money in panama or wherever...the guy working at McDonalds would be filthy rich....

amazing how obsessed some are with other people's money, assets, success.....

if only we could institute global communism to combat this global inequity...

gotta give the chinese credit for coming up with the idea to spread global communism through a pandemic by creating a nasty virus...pretty brilliant and working fabulously

"if not for the guy stashing money in panama or wherever...the guy working at McDonalds would be filthy rich...."

How do you debate someone who thinks it's bad that people are incentivized to park their cash in our country, as opposed to storing it in Grand Cayman?

when you spend your whole life in the public sector, and all you do is listen without question to MSNBC, I guess you conclude that all business is sinister, and that we don't want Pablo Escobar's money here, and no one who works in the private sector is any better, therefore we shouldn't want any of it.

"amazing how obsessed some are with other people's money, assets, success...."

It's so much easier to demonize the successful, than it is to just admit it's more likely they worked harder, made better decisions, took more chances, etc...and of course sometimes they're just luckier, and sometimes they're unethical. But not much of the time.

"gotta give the chinese credit for coming up with the idea to spread global communism through a pandemic by creating a nasty virus."

Aided by gain-of-research function that was almost certainly funded by Fauci.