President Biden says that 3,500,000,000,000 equals 0.

[Pete F.]

Rounding error #1

The simplest change would be to end basis step-up at death, eliminating the “Angel of Death” loophole. Eliminating basis step-up for heirs would result in a regime called “carryover basis.” The basis of an asset would not change when bequests are made. When the asset is later sold by an heir, the taxable basis would be the same as when the decedent owned it. Under a carryover basis system, capital gains tax would continue to be owed when the gain is realized. An asset that was purchased at $100, bequeathed and inherited at $300, and sold by the heir at $350 would have a capital gain of $250. Under the current system with step-up in basis, the capital gain would only be $50.

Shifting to carryover basis discourages lock-in and tax shelters. The Joint Committee on Taxation staff calculate that a policy ending basis step-up implemented this year would raise $104.9 billion over the next 10 years. In addition, curtailing tax avoidance would allow policymakers to raise the capital gains tax rate and generate increased revenues, without generating as much tax avoidance as would occur with a higher rate under the current system.

A carryover basis regime maintains the practice of taxing capital gains at realization and thus retains the advantages related to investor liquidity and ease of valuation.

[Pete F.]

Rounding error #2
Accrual taxation represents a major break from the current system as a move away from the realization principle, and it has several advantages. It would eliminate the lock-in effect, the use of capital-gains-bearing assets as tax shelters, and most of the incentive to shift labor income into capital gains. Because it restricts avoidance, accrual taxation would allow for a significantly higher tax rate on capital gains without inducing significant avoidance. Accrual taxation brings the tax system in line with the basic definition of income outlined above. It would increase the tax base and thus raise revenues. Using Survey of Consumer Finance data, Batchelder and Kamin calculate that accrual taxation (a) on marketable assets only and (b) limited to the top 1 percent of households would raise $1.7 trillion over ten years, even after allowing for a 15 percent avoidance rate.

[Pete F.]

Rounding error #3

Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers

The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. In 2018, the top 1 percent of households ranked by income obtained 69 percent of realized long-term capital gains; the top 20 percent received 90 percent of the gains.

the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages, if the asset was held for at least a year before selling. Realized capital gains face a top statutory marginal income tax rate of 20 percent plus a supplemental net investment income tax rate of 3.8 percent, for a combined total of 23.8 percent. Wages face a top marginal tax rate of 37 percent, plus a Medicare tax rate of 2.9 percent and a supplemental tax of 0.9 percent, for a combined rate of 40.8 percent.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Rounding error #3

Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers

The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. In 2018, the top 1 percent of households ranked by income obtained 69 percent of realized long-term capital gains; the top 20 percent received 90 percent of the gains.

the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages, if the asset was held for at least a year before selling. Realized capital gains face a top statutory marginal income tax rate of 20 percent plus a supplemental net investment income tax rate of 3.8 percent, for a combined total of 23.8 percent. Wages face a top marginal tax rate of 37 percent, plus a Medicare tax rate of 2.9 percent and a supplemental tax of 0.9 percent, for a combined rate of 40.8 percent.

"Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers"

Check your math. Those numbers are wrong. Nobody has income of $450 billion, which is what your math implies. There aren't 20 people whose combined *income* is $9 trillion.

"The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. "

Duh! Because they have the most money to invest. Would you pass a law setting a cap for how much someone can invest? If Jeff Bezos invests in the stock market, does that harm you somehow? If those wealthy people took all their money out of the stock market and buried it in their backyards, who would be better off? No one. Absolutely no one. So why do you care?

You're fixated on a small number of uber wealthy people whose wealth may not ne equitable, but it isn't hurting anybody.

I notice that you ALWAYS post how big of a piece of the pie is owned by those at the top, but you NEVER post the share of the total tax burden currently paid by them. Why is that? Answer - the truth doesn't fully support your narrative that they are freeloaders who aren't paying their fair share.

"the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages"

And there's a darn good reason for that...investing involves risk. Lots of risk, many different kinds of risk. It's good if we incentivize people to invest.

I posted a link showing that the top 1% had 20% of the total income, but paid 40% of the total tax. In total, we have a progressive tax system. We can talk about tweaking the rates to make it work better, but we don't have a regressive tax system, not even close. You never, ever include that part. Because you ignore everything which doesn't serve the liberal Narrative.

I don't like the idea of billionaires living near people who can't afford medical care, I hate that. But the math could not be more clear, you can't help large numbers of people by taking more from a small number of zillionaires. Re-distribution is part of the solution obviously, but you also need to give more people at the bottom the tools and the incentive, to lift themselves up. Liberals tend to purposely ignore that part. It's not that hard to do in most cases. A strong family with great parents is 95% of what's needed. Liberals won't admit that, either.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Income for the top 20 is 9 Trillion, I'm not looking for the defined numbers"

Check your math. Those numbers are wrong. Nobody has income of $450 billion, which is what your math implies. There aren't 20 people whose combined *income* is $9 trillion.

Oh, You thought 20 people not percent. That would have worked better for you

"The overwhelming majority of realized capital gains go to the highest income households. "

No, because they can take compensation as stock options, etc instead of wages

Duh! Because they have the most money to invest. Would you pass a law setting a cap for how much someone can invest? If Jeff Bezos invests in the stock market, does that harm you somehow? If those wealthy people took all their money out of the stock market and buried it in their backyards, who would be better off? No one. Absolutely no one. So why do you care?

You're fixated on a small number of uber wealthy people whose wealth may not ne equitable, but it isn't hurting anybody.

I notice that you ALWAYS post how big of a piece of the pie is owned by those at the top, but you NEVER post the share of the total tax burden currently paid by them. Why is that? Answer - the truth doesn't fully support your narrative that they are freeloaders who aren't paying their fair share.

"the tax rate on realized capital gains is lower than the tax rate on wages"

And there's a darn good reason for that...investing involves risk. Lots of risk, many different kinds of risk. It's good if we incentivize people to invest.

I posted a link showing that the top 1% had 20% of the total income, but paid 40% of the total tax. In total, we have a progressive tax system. We can talk about tweaking the rates to make it work better, but we don't have a regressive tax system, not even close. You never, ever include that part. Because you ignore everything which doesn't serve the liberal Narrative.

Because you use the figure for income, not total compensation and it skews the numbers. It's done on purpose so you think the tax rate is more progressive than it is.

I don't like the idea of billionaires living near people who can't afford medical care, I hate that. We spend 50% more per capita than anyone else who has universal care, and who gets that money? But the math could not be more clear, you can't help large numbers of people by taking more from a small number of zillionaires. Re-distribution is part of the solution obviously, but you also need to give more people at the bottom the tools and the incentive, to lift themselves up. Liberals tend to purposely ignore that part. It's not that hard to do in most cases. A strong family with great parents is 95% of what's needed. Liberals won't admit that, either.

Conservatives haven't found a way to legislate that yet and plenty of the people they promote aren't great examples.

If a man had five children by three different baby mamas, would that be ok?

Or Rep. Cawthorn who now calls for holy war: “It’s time for us to stand up and declare boldly that, as men & women of faith, we have a duty to stand against tyranny .. It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows .. (against) people who hate the things we believe in.” (He's got a couple of closets also)

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Conservatives haven't found a way to legislate that yet and plenty of the people they promote aren't great examples.

If a man had five children by three different baby mamas, would that be ok?

Or Rep. Cawthorn who now calls for holy war: “It’s time for us to stand up and declare boldly that, as men & women of faith, we have a duty to stand against tyranny .. It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows .. (against) people who hate the things we believe in.” (He's got a couple of closets also)

stock options are usually taxed as income, not as capital gains. you’re just making stuff up.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Conservatives haven't found a way to legislate that yet and plenty of the people they promote aren't great examples.

If a man had five children by three different baby mamas, would that be ok?

Or Rep. Cawthorn who now calls for holy war: “It’s time for us to stand up and declare boldly that, as men & women of faith, we have a duty to stand against tyranny .. It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows .. (against) people who hate the things we believe in.” (He's got a couple of closets also)

who cares if elected republicans aren’t good fathers? does ANYONE look to politicians to see how they should behave?

“stand against tyranny” is a declaration of war?

that’s not a stretch.

Pete, try saying this 100 times…stock options are usually taxed as ordinary income…stock
options are usually taxed as ordinary income…

i got options when i worked at travelers and the hartford. ordinary income.

keep saying it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

who cares if elected republicans aren’t good fathers? does ANYONE look to politicians to see how they should behave?

“stand against tyranny” is a declaration of war?

that’s not a stretch.

Pete, try saying this 100 times…stock options are usually taxed as ordinary income…stock
options are usually taxed as ordinary income…

i got options when i worked at travelers and the hartford. ordinary income.

keep saying it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Republicans aren’t good at anything but saying saying no and are all generally dishonest and crazy hypocritical.. and please spare us the both sides do it .. Nonesense

And willingness to tank the economy for political gain by refusing to raise the Debt ceiling.. a game that moderates and independents see as reckless and hypocritical and most of the country . Only the MAGA base see it as owning the libs
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

You already stated that you require nothing moral about your leaders, political or other.

Steve Bannon’s ‘shock troops.’ Madison Cawthorn’s ‘holy war.’ Schools requiring the teaching of only ‘patriotic education.’ ‘Alternative facts’ We are well down the rabbit hole towards a fascist America. None of this is normal.

Your boss the almost billionaire, takes stock options because they are just like cash, OK
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We are well down the rabbit hole towards a fascist America. None of this is normal.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

who is more fascist?....the people that want everyone locked down, injected, masked and requiring papers everywhere they go and unquestioned obedience to the federal government and their directives, want to know every time 600 dollars enters or leaves your bank account, collude with big tech and the media and corporations censor information and to push government narratives and propoganda ....or the people who don't?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

who is more fascist?....the people that want everyone locked down, injected, masked and requiring papers everywhere they go and unquestioned obedience to the federal government and their directives, want to know every time 600 dollars enters or leaves your bank account, collude with big tech and the media and corporations censor information and to push government narratives and propoganda ....or the people who don't?

What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom

What we got: FOX/GOP fighting against masks and vaccines, causing the need for longer restrictions and more mandates, so they can keep their followers angry about Dems attacking their freedom

Steve Bannon said the other morning he will have 20K "shock troops" on standby. "We control this country," he added. "We have to start acting like it."

Throughout the federal deployment to Portland, officers from the Federal Protective Services requested assistance from the Department of Homeland Security’s Homeland Identities Targeting and Exploitation Center to search protesters’ cellphones. That team found the searches were illegal, and resisted pressure from senior Homeland Security leaders to assist FPS.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

Bans + Mandates = Not Freedom
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What we got: FOX/GOP fighting against masks and vaccines, causing the need for longer restrictions and more mandates,

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

they are working world wide apparently....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom

What we got: FOX/GOP fighting against masks and vaccines, causing the need for longer restrictions and more mandates, so they can keep their followers angry about Dems attacking their freedom

Steve Bannon said the other morning he will have 20K "shock troops" on standby. "We control this country," he added. "We have to start acting like it."

Throughout the federal deployment to Portland, officers from the Federal Protective Services requested assistance from the Department of Homeland Security’s Homeland Identities Targeting and Exploitation Center to search protesters’ cellphones. That team found the searches were illegal, and resisted pressure from senior Homeland Security leaders to assist FPS.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"What we got: FOX/GOP fighting against masks and vaccines,"

So why are some of the largest unvaccinated populations, blacks and those with PhD's? Those people take their marching orders from Foxnews?

"What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom"

Tell that to Connecticut College students, who have a 100% vaccination rate, and are in a complete lockdown.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So why are some of the largest unvaccinated populations, blacks and those with PhD's?

don't forget police, fire and healthcare workers...and teachers

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"What we got: FOX/GOP fighting against masks and vaccines,"

So why are some of the largest unvaccinated populations, blacks and those with PhD's? Those people take their marching orders from Foxnews?

Are you trying to say Foxnews should not be listened to by anyone who is a minority or educated?


"What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom"

Tell that to Connecticut College students, who have a 100% vaccination rate, and are in a complete lockdown.

Lying again, I see
Connecticut College is not locked down, is following the Covid Protocol.
https://www.conncoll.edu/campus-life...-19-dashboard/

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

What we could have: masks+vaccination=freedom

War is peace. Freedom is slavery.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

War is peace. Freedom is slavery.

You and Bannon are Leninists, oops that's true

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

who is more fascist?....the people that want everyone locked down, injected, masked and requiring papers everywhere they go and unquestioned obedience to the federal government and their directives, want to know every time 600 dollars enters or leaves your bank account, collude with big tech and the media and corporations censor information and to push government narratives and propoganda ....or the people who don't?

Wow nice rant Q

Deposits or withdrawalsOver $10,000 Are reported not 600
Please get informed
The only unquestionably obedience I’ve seen has been The Trump MAGA cult. The guy you didn’t vote for but support with out question

And back to the press and FB is the enemy of the people colluding only with Dems.. so much for Parler

Parler’s Popularity Plummets As Data Reveals Little Appetite For Returning ‘Free Speech’ App Favored By Conservatives Forbes

Parler active users 2.3 mil active
Twitter 206 million snap chat 347 million TikTok has reached 1 billion

Conservatives are a dying breed unable to accept they are in the minority in America being saved by the electoral college and how the Senator are appointed . And Americans are paying attention to their obstructing ways .

But I thought conservatives love Israel they have a vaccine passport
They must be fascists
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Wow nice rant Q THANKS!

Deposits or withdrawalsOver $10,000

Are reported not 600

Please get informed

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it's coming...apparently you are not informed

Yes, under Biden's proposal the IRS could have more access to your bank accounts
If you have at least $600 in your account, the IRS could end up monitoring your spending. It’s part of President Biden's proposed tax reform and is raising concerns.

NBC IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
by Kenneth McGrathTuesday, September 28th 2021

MOBILE COUNTY, Ala. (WPMI) —

The administration wants the Internal Revenue Service to monitor every transaction you make of $600 or more, that’s a big change from the current 10,000 threshold. Meanwhile, Bloomberg.com reports that House Ways & Means Chairman Richard Neal said he and other democratic leaders are planning to set a threshold higher than the $600 proposed by the Biden administration.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

The administration wants the Internal Revenue Service to monitor every transaction you make of $600 or more, that’s a big change from the current 10,000 threshold.

Not true.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

it's coming...apparently you are not informed

Yes, under Biden's proposal the IRS could have more access to your bank accounts
If you have at least $600 in your account, the IRS could end up monitoring your spending. It’s part of President Biden's proposed tax reform and is raising concerns.

NBC IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan
by Kenneth McGrathTuesday, September 28th 2021

MOBILE COUNTY, Ala. (WPMI) —

The administration wants the Internal Revenue Service to monitor every transaction you make of $600 or more, that’s a big change from the current 10,000 threshold. Meanwhile, Bloomberg.com reports that House Ways & Means Chairman Richard Neal said he and other democratic leaders are planning to set a threshold higher than the $600 proposed by the Biden administration.

Wants? is that your bases on facts what people want? Not what actually exists…. You seem focused on feeling not actually Facts it’s not all that surprising


The great American tax haven: why the super-rich love South Dakota

last year, as the Chinese government prepared to enact tough new tax rules, the billionaire Sun Hongbin quietly transferred $4.5bn worth of shares in his Chinese real estate firm to a company on a street corner in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, one of the least populated and least known states in the US. Sioux Falls is a pleasant city of 180,000 people, situated where the Big Sioux River tumbles off a red granite cliff. It has some decent bars downtown, and a charming array of sculptures dotting the streets, but there doesn’t seem to be much to attract a Chinese multi-billionaire. It’s a town that even few Americans have been to.

The money of the world’s mega-wealthy, though, is heading there in ever-larger volumes. In the past decade, hundreds of billions of dollars have poured out of traditional offshore jurisdictions such as Switzerland and Jersey, and into a small number of American states: Delaware, Nevada, Wyoming – and, above all, South Dakota. “To some, South Dakota is a ‘fly-over’ state,” the chief justice of the state’s supreme court said in a speech to the legislature in January. “While many people may find a way to ‘fly over’ South Dakota, somehow their dollars find a way to land here.”

But spending 3.5 bill over 10 years is suddenly outrageous
the Department of Defense's discretionary budget authority is approximately $705.39 billion ($705,390,000,000). Mandatory spending of $10.77 billion, the Department of Energy and defense-related spending of $37.335 billion added up to the total FY2021 Defense budget of $753.5 billion.

Republicans love to say American 1st but only if that money goes to their donors .. not to helping actual Americans
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Conservatives are a dying breed unable to accept they are in the minority in America being saved by the electoral college and how the Senator are appointed . And Americans are paying attention to their obstructing ways .


Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What do you base this on? What support for that crap could you possibly provide?

If the electoral college is the only thing saving the GOP, please explain why Republicans currently have a majority of governorships and state legislatures? Lemme guess, it’s all because of racist gerrymandering.

When Obama left office as recently as 2016, the Democrats held fewer elected offices (federal, state, local) than at any time sine Reconstruction. That's mathematical fact. Back then, did you say the democrats were on the way out?

[wdmso]

Pandora Papers show how tax havens are part of the global inequity problem

The massive leak shows wealthy individuals from all over the world parking money in Caribbean tax havens, hiding assets in foreign trusts and shielding their wealth in opaque Panamanian corporations

While prominent Americans largely escaped the investigation’s gaze, the United States itself did not, as researchers found that the US now serves as an overseas tax haven for many.


Experts told NPR that the US’ low tax rates (compared to other developed nations) contributed to the findings, which indicated that some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad; others were found to be likely using companies whose finances were not revealed in the latest batch of documents.

And some Americans still use the same methods to hide assets when under investigation or facing lawsuits,
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Pandora Papers show how tax havens are part of the global inequity problem

The massive leak shows wealthy individuals from all over the world parking money in Caribbean tax havens, hiding assets in foreign trusts and shielding their wealth in opaque Panamanian corporations

While prominent Americans largely escaped the investigation’s gaze, the United States itself did not, as researchers found that the US now serves as an overseas tax haven for many.


Experts told NPR that the US’ low tax rates (compared to other developed nations) contributed to the findings, which indicated that some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad; others were found to be likely using companies whose finances were not revealed in the latest batch of documents.

And some Americans still use the same methods to hide assets when under investigation or facing lawsuits,
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad;"

Would you be better off if more Americans stashed their money abroad? How would that help you, or poor people, exactly?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"some Americans simply found no need to stash money abroad;"

Would you be better off if more Americans stashed their money abroad? How would that help you, or poor people, exactly?

if not for the guy stashing money in panama or wherever...the guy working at McDonalds would be filthy rich....

amazing how obsessed some are with other people's money, assets, success.....

if only we could institute global communism to combat this global inequity...

gotta give the chinese credit for coming up with the idea to spread global communism through a pandemic by creating a nasty virus...pretty brilliant and working fabulously

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by scottw

if not for the guy stashing money in panama or wherever...the guy working at McDonalds would be filthy rich....

amazing how obsessed some are with other people's money, assets, success.....

if only we could institute global communism to combat this global inequity...

gotta give the chinese credit for coming up with the idea to spread global communism through a pandemic by creating a nasty virus...pretty brilliant and working fabulously

Obsessed not, but if I were still working and paying high taxes, I’d be a bit pissed someone with millions or billions is paying almost nothing.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

but if I were still working and paying high taxes
so you think taxes are too high?


I’d be a bit pissed someone with millions or billions is paying almost nothing.

name one....define almost nothing

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Obsessed not, but if I were still working and paying high taxes, I’d be a bit pissed someone with millions or billions is paying almost nothing.

The top 1% have 20% of the total income, and pay 40% of the total federal income tax, as of 2018.

"paying almost nothing**"

** - in which 1% of the population shouldering 40% of the tax burden, is "almost nothing".

Obama had deomcrats in control of congress, as Biden does now. If the tax system is so unfair, why don't they change it? Obama had a fillibuster-proof democrat majority in the senate, and a large democrat majority in the house, for some of his first term. He could have fixed this in a day.

Its all BS to distract the herd from the truth. If you're unhappy with your lot in life, the problem is much more likely to be in the mirror, than it is to be some guy on the cover of Forbes.