So the local friendly Antifa...

[PaulS]

Inciting a riot. Hurling a Molotov cocktail. Plotting to sow destruction. Those are some of the most serious charges brought by federal prosecutors against demonstrators at protests across the country in recent weeks.

But despite cries from President Trump and others in his administration, none of those charged with serious federal crimes amid the unrest have been linked so far to the loose collective of anti-fascist activists known as antifa.

A review of the arrests of dozens of people on federal charges reveals no known effort by antifa to perpetrate a coordinated campaign of violence. Some criminal complaints described vague, anti-government political leanings among suspects, but the majority of the violent acts that have taken place at protests have been attributed by federal prosecutors to individuals with no affiliation to any particular group.

Even so, Attorney General William P. Barr has blamed antifa for orchestrating the mass protests, which broke out in cities and towns across the country following the death in police custody of George Floyd. “There is clearly some high degree of organization involved at some of these events and coordinated tactics that we are seeing,” Mr. Barr said. “Some of it relates to antifa, some of it relates to groups that act very much like antifa.”

Mr. Trump has sought to expand and exploit accusations against what he has called the involvement of “radical leftists” in the protests. At one point the president said that antifa would be declared a “terrorist organization,” although it is not a single organization nor does any American law allow using that designation against a domestic group. On Tuesday, the president suggested on Twitter, without providing any evidence, that a 75-year-old Buffalo protester hospitalized after being knocked down by the police, could be “an ANTIFA provocateur.”

Mr. Trump and other Republicans have also sought to raise campaign funds off the unsubstantiated accusations. “Stand with President Trump against antifa!” read a banner advertisement on Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign website this week.

Marjorie Green, a congressional candidate in Georgia, produced a campaign ad showing her armed with an AR-15 military-style rifle and threatening antifa activists. “You won’t burn our churches, loot our businesses or destroy our homes,” she said.

Asked why the myriad criminal complaints do not single out antifa, Mr. Barr said on Fox News this week that preliminary charges do not require linking suspects to a particular group, adding that there was, “a witches’ brew of extremist groups that are trying to exploit this situation on all sides.”

F.B.I. agents and federal prosecutors have pursued charges aggressively against rioters, looters and others accused of wreaking havoc during the demonstrations. Law enforcement officials have relied on a variety of federal statutes to make arrests, including conspiracy to commit arson, starting a riot, civil disorder and possession of a Molotov cocktail.

The most serious case that has emerged in federal court involved three men in Nevada linked to a loose, national network of far-right extremists advocating for the overthrow of the U.S. government. They were arrested on May 30 on charges of trying to foment violence during Black Lives Matter protests.

Given the sheer volume of thousands of arrests nationwide in recent weeks, officials cautioned that many investigations remain in the early stages with investigators still trying to determine affiliations. In addition, state and local court documents are far harder to search comprehensively.

However, interviews with several major local police departments and a review of hundreds of newspaper stories about arrests around the country revealed no evidence of an organized political effort behind the looting and other violence.

“We saw no organized effort of antifa here in Los Angeles,” said Josh Rubenstein, the spokesman for the Los Angeles Police Department.

Asked in an interview about the involvement of antifa or other extremists groups in Minneapolis, Medaria Arradondo, the chief of police, said, “As I sit here today, I have not received any sort of official information identifying any of the groups.”

In the one example where antifa is mentioned, local police in Austin, Texas, said members of the Red Guards, a Maoist organization, were involved in organizing the looting of a Target store. The Red Guards have been associated with antifa protests in Austin in the past, but local activists said they were largely estranged from the group.

While anarchists and anti-fascists openly acknowledged being part of the massive crowds, they call the scale, intensity and durability of the protests far beyond anything that they might dream of organizing. Some tactics used at the protests, like the wearing of all black and the shattering of store windows, are reminiscent of those used by anarchist groups, say those who study such movements.

In Portland, those affiliated with Rose City Antifa said they have supported the continuing protests. But the city’s antifa actions have long involved a wide range of people, some who dress in black apparel and face coverings and others who show up in everyday clothing to decry far-right extremists and police militarization. There has also been various far-left activities in Seattle, including people who have spray-painted anarchist symbols on public property.

Antifa has roots in the Occupy Wall Street protests of a decade ago and the demonstrations against the World Trade Organization in the 1990s. During Mr. Trump’s inauguration, antifa activists marched in Washington vandalizing businesses and at one point setting fire to a limousine.

Over the next several months, its followers disrupted events hosted by right-wing speakers like Ann Coulter and Milo Yiannopoulous. When the far right fought back, organizing its own public protests, anti-fascist activists met them on the streets in what often turned into violent confrontations, culminating in the bloody rally in 2017 in Charlottesville, Va.

Anarchists and others accuse officials of trying to assign blame to extremists rather than accept the idea that millions of Americans from a variety of political backgrounds have been on the streets demanding change. Numerous experts called the participation of extremist organizations overstated, as well.

“A significant number of people in positions of authority are pushing a false narrative about antifa being behind a lot of this activity,” said J.M. Berger, the author of the book “Extremism,” and an authority on militant movements. “These are just unbelievably large protests at a time of great turmoil in this country, and there is surprisingly little violence given the size of this movement.”

In July 2019, Christopher Wray, the F.B.I. director, told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the agency “considers antifa more of an ideology than an organization.”

In Las Vegas, the complaint filed in U.S. District Court said the three suspects called themselves members of the “boogaloo,” which is described as a far-right movement “to signify a coming civil war and/or fall of civilization.”

At an initial protest, the three strapped on bulletproof vests, grabbed their rifles and waded into the crowd, hoping to provoke clashes between protesters and the police, according to court papers. One taunted police officers, yelling in their faces, while a second chided protesters “that peaceful protests don’t accomplish anything and they needed to be violent,” the complaint said.

When that failed, they plotted to blow up an electric substation along the route of the demonstration in the hope that would prompt more violence between police and protesters, according to the complaint. They were arrested after preparing Molotov cocktails from gasoline and lemonade bottles before a march.

Robert M. Drascovich Jr., an attorney for one of the accused, Stephen T. Parshall, 35, said his client denied all the charges.

Individuals associated with the boogaloo movement have been out in force at countless demonstrations in the past few years, clad in their distinctive combat dress and armed with rifles. They often claim that they appear armed in public to underscore their commitment to Second Amendment rights, or to protect local businesses.

But online, boogaloo discussion groups overflow with racist statements and threats to exploit any unrest to spark a race war that will bring about a new government system.

In Denver, police seized a small arsenal including three assault rifles, numerous magazines, several bullet proof vests and other military paraphernalia from the car trunk of a self-professed “boogaloo” adherent headed toward a protest, a man who had previously live-streamed his own support for armed confrontations with police.

After a demonstration in Athens, Ga., on May 31 ended with the National Guard being called in and tear gas fired to clear protesters away from the gates of University of Georgia, Chief Cleveland L. Spruill wrote a lengthy memo spelling out his concerns around extremist involvement in the protests.

Given the volatile mix of protesters, including armed men, he said, he feared a repeat of Charlottesville. Some participants called such fears overblown given the overall peaceful tenor of the protest.

In New York, police briefed reporters on May 31, claiming that radical anarchists from out of state had plotted ahead of the protests by setting up encrypted communications systems, arranging for street medics and collecting bail funds.

Within five days, however, Dermot F. Shea, the city’s police commissioner, acknowledged that most of the hundreds of people arrested at the protests in New York were actually New Yorkers who took advantage of the chaos to commit crimes and were not motivated by political ideology. John Miller, the police official who had briefed reporters, told CNN that most looting in New York had been committed by “regular criminal groups.”

In Austin, Texas, court documents said several members of the Red Guards participated in burglarizing a Target store, including a woman who streamed the event on Facebook Live, encouraging people to come “even if you do not want to loot,” one affidavit said.

Although the court documents identified the Red Guards as part of the city’s anti-fascist umbrella organization, several Austin activists described the group as either defunct or estranged from one another because of their penchant for troubling acts like laying a dead cat on the doorstep of a business involved in a gentrification dispute.

Kit O’Connell, a longtime radical leftist activist and community organizer in Austin, said that shortly after Mr. Trump’s election, the group took part in anti-fascist protests in the city against a local white supremacist group and scuffled separately with Act for America, an anti-Muslim organization.

“They’ve been an influence at the protests but they’re not in charge — no one’s really in charge,” Mr. O’Connell said.

Carl Guthrie, a lawyer for Samuel Miller, one of those charged with burglary, denied that his client had any connection to the Red Guards. He called such accusations “a transparent, incendiary attempt to distract from the problems plaguing our society — systemic racism and state-sponsored murder.”

Experts on extremism said the few suspects arrested with overt political goals fall under the broad category of “accelerationists,” groups that hope to exploit any public unrest to further their own anti-government goals.

[Pete F.]

Sorry to tell you but there is a problem with cops and low income or lower caste people

KEITH ELLISON: Well, you know that the police are now and have always been in place to maintain the legal/social order. If that’s a just social order, that’s one thing. If it’s one based on slavery, Jim Crow segregation, capital, and Big Business abusing labor, then the police have always played this role where they are the ones who sort of maintain that social hierarchy.

I grew up in Michigan, and people there have a strong memory about how it was police and policelike forces that put down strikes, how police and parapolice forces were the ones who maintained the racial hierarchy.

When John Lewis, who’s a member of Congress, got arrested for challenging segregation, he was arrested by a police officer, right? So they maintain a legal status quo and a social/cultural order and always have.


It’s important to understand you can’t look at the police in isolation. A lot of times we do that because what they do is so flagrant. I mean, the knee on the neck, right? Or the shooting of [African American youth] Laquan McDonald, where [Chicago Police Officer Jason Van Dyke] wrote in his report that [McDonald] attacked him with a knife, when he was so clearly assassinated on the street. Same thing with Walter Scott [an unarmed African American man killed by a police officer in South Carolina], who was running away and was shot.

The question is, why do these cases so often result in either no charge, no grand jury bill of indictment like in the Mike Brown case [in Ferguson, Mo.], no conviction, hung juries? I mean, we all saw what happened to Philando Castile—live on Facebook—who was shot down by Officer Jeronimo Yanez [in Falcon Heights, Minn.], and yet there was no conviction in that case. It’s just almost impossible to imagine it wouldn’t have resulted in a conviction, but it didn’t. Or what about Freddie Gray? Perfectly healthy, they throw him in that [Baltimore police] van, and he comes out dead, and next thing you know, all these officers are charged, and yet no one is held accountable for the death of Freddie Gray.

There’s got to be some element of complicity and culpability on behalf of the system that sends the officers out there.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry to tell you but there is a problem with cops and low income or lower caste people

.

Yes, there is problem with the police. I didn't see anyone say the police are perfect, therefore I'm not sure what you are responding to. They, like both you and I, are flawed.

Yes, there is a problem. But the data shows with zero ambiguity that problem, is nothing compared to the problem caused by black on black violence in our cities. But, that tiny police problem is seen a politically helpful to democrats, so the media acts as if that's the biggest problem, they get the mob good and worked up, and a few cops get murdered, no big deal. Easier than admitting that (1) urban black on black violence is a far bigger problem, and (2) that liberalism helped cause black on black violence. Can't discuss either of these two things.

You have to start wondering how much liberals despise blacks. Attack the nuclear family, incentivize fatherlessness. Create a permanent underclass by making them addicted to welfare. Oppose school choice (probably my favorite). Put an abortion clinic on every corner of every black neighborhood. Talk in ebonics whenever you are speaking to blacks.

[Pete F.]

Always the liberals fault.

What is it like to be a black man in America?

"Ernest showed up at my door and I had to address it. I couldn't pretend nothing was going on as we were watching news of the protests and riots upstairs," Brock said.

Skelton's answer shocked her.

"He was very open and willing to share what his life was like, and I'm going to say it really shocked me, because I didn't know that this is a normal black man has to deal with every day," Brock said, tears welling in her eyes.

Skelton told her about the numerous times he claims he's been pulled over by Myrtle Beach police, but said it wasn't for traffic violations.

"I get pulled over because my truck fit the description of a robbery. They question me about the boxes in my car," he said.

He claims the harassment from police has gotten so bad, he doesn't leave the house after dark anymore.

"Soon as I'm 5 minutes from my house, the blue light come on. I pull over and they ask me what I'm doing out this time of night. I'm like, 'dude really. I got a sign on my truck, invoices showing I just got off of work,'" he said.

He said seeing what happened to George Floyd certainly hasn't improved his level of trust with law enforcement, either.

"George Floyd , when I saw that, that could have been me. They could have easily snatched me out of the car," he said.

He went on to tell her about the prejudice he's faced in the workplace, too.

"Me being an African-American, I have 2 degrees, but I can't get a job with two degrees because of my skin color," he said.

This eventually led him to become his own boss and start his own business, Grand Strand Appliance Repair Services.

He said even customers will question his qualifications from time to time.

"I have customers asking me 'are you certified? Do you know what you're doing?' I mean they want a background history," he said.

It was an eye-opening conversation for Brock. She said it was an uncomfortable dialogue to initiate, but a much-needed one.

"Let's not pretend that it doesn't exist. Let's ask the hard questions and be willing and open to see what's under there," Brock said. "It's really about listening with an open mind instead of thinking you know."

She wanted to share what she learned with the world, in the hopes that his story would enlighten others, too.

With his permission, she posted what she learned from him on Facebook.

The post has since gone viral. It's been 'liked' and shared hundreds of thousands of times.

Skelton said people from all around the world have been reaching out to him nonstop, either with messages of sympathy, or stories of similar run-ins with law enforcement.

Even Myrtle Beach City Manager John Pedersen said he saw the post. In an email to ABC 15, he said he found Skelton's allegations "disturbing" and that Myrtle Beach police were investigating.

However, he said so far, they have only found record of one incident with Skelton, and it was related to a traffic incident back in 2014. He said they are continuing to look into the matter.

Skelton said he feels many of his encounters with local police went undocumented, though.

"Plenty of times I get pulled over for no reason, so if I'm getting pulled over for no reason at all, of course they're not going to put that in their record," he said.

Ernest Skelton said he doesn't have high hopes things will change for the black community, but he said when people in positions of privilege, like Caroline Brock, are willing to ask and listen, it's certainly a good start.

"It's about listening and it's about uplifting," Brock said.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Always the liberals fault.

What is it like to be a black man in America?

"Ernest showed up at my door and I had to address it. I couldn't pretend nothing was going on as we were watching news of the protests and riots upstairs," Brock said.

Skelton's answer shocked her.

"He was very open and willing to share what his life was like, and I'm going to say it really shocked me, because I didn't know that this is a normal black man has to deal with every day," Brock said, tears welling in her eyes.

Skelton told her about the numerous times he claims he's been pulled over by Myrtle Beach police, but said it wasn't for traffic violations.

"I get pulled over because my truck fit the description of a robbery. They question me about the boxes in my car," he said.

He claims the harassment from police has gotten so bad, he doesn't leave the house after dark anymore.

"Soon as I'm 5 minutes from my house, the blue light come on. I pull over and they ask me what I'm doing out this time of night. I'm like, 'dude really. I got a sign on my truck, invoices showing I just got off of work,'" he said.

He said seeing what happened to George Floyd certainly hasn't improved his level of trust with law enforcement, either.

"George Floyd , when I saw that, that could have been me. They could have easily snatched me out of the car," he said.

He went on to tell her about the prejudice he's faced in the workplace, too.

"Me being an African-American, I have 2 degrees, but I can't get a job with two degrees because of my skin color," he said.

This eventually led him to become his own boss and start his own business, Grand Strand Appliance Repair Services.

He said even customers will question his qualifications from time to time.

"I have customers asking me 'are you certified? Do you know what you're doing?' I mean they want a background history," he said.

It was an eye-opening conversation for Brock. She said it was an uncomfortable dialogue to initiate, but a much-needed one.

"Let's not pretend that it doesn't exist. Let's ask the hard questions and be willing and open to see what's under there," Brock said. "It's really about listening with an open mind instead of thinking you know."

She wanted to share what she learned with the world, in the hopes that his story would enlighten others, too.

With his permission, she posted what she learned from him on Facebook.

The post has since gone viral. It's been 'liked' and shared hundreds of thousands of times.

Skelton said people from all around the world have been reaching out to him nonstop, either with messages of sympathy, or stories of similar run-ins with law enforcement.

Even Myrtle Beach City Manager John Pedersen said he saw the post. In an email to ABC 15, he said he found Skelton's allegations "disturbing" and that Myrtle Beach police were investigating.

However, he said so far, they have only found record of one incident with Skelton, and it was related to a traffic incident back in 2014. He said they are continuing to look into the matter.

Skelton said he feels many of his encounters with local police went undocumented, though.

"Plenty of times I get pulled over for no reason, so if I'm getting pulled over for no reason at all, of course they're not going to put that in their record," he said.

Ernest Skelton said he doesn't have high hopes things will change for the black community, but he said when people in positions of privilege, like Caroline Brock, are willing to ask and listen, it's certainly a good start.

"It's about listening and it's about uplifting," Brock said.

So in your last 2 posts, you implied that people think police are flawless, which no one said. Then you said "it's always the liberals fault", which no one ever said. Your last two posts are responding to points which no one made.

I said two things, and I'd like for you to tell me which of these is incorrect, and why.

1. Urban violence is way more destructive to black lives, than the police. Not even close.

2. Stupid liberal policies (attacking the nuclear family, incentivizing fatherlessness, making people addicted to welfare, opposing school choice) are making urban violence worse.

Try your very best, not to respond by saying "so Jim wants to kill everybody..." Try responding to what I actually said, not to the voices in your head.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

"Me being an African-American, I have 2 degrees, but I can't get a job with two degrees because of my skin color," he said.

.

If that were true, if there were ANY evidence of that, a team of lawyers would represent this person for free in a massive lawsuit.

Anyone can post anything on the internet Pete. This proves nothing.

[The Dad Fisherman]

What are his degrees in, would be my first question?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

What could be done about police violence, real or imagined?
First of all we could track what is happening, we don't.
Police Departments are being accused of violating citizens Constitutional rights.

The Federal Government actually has an entity created to make sure that the Constitution is followed.
It was created after the Civil War to ensure that the 14th, 15th and 16th amendments were followed.
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
It's called the Department of Justice.
It doesn't have jurisdiction over looting, vandalism, and even assault as they are all state crimes and may have some jurisdiction over rioting in some cases.
But it does have the power to examine pattern and practice in law enforcement organizations.
A systemic review of some police organizations starting with Minneapolis, Buffalo, NYC etc. would be well within it's purview.
But Barr refuses to do that.
One would think that he would apply the same diligence and enthusiasm to investigating law enforcement organizations at the state level as he has at the Federal level, it is a core responsibility of the organization he leads.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

A systemic review of some police organizations starting with Minneapolis, Buffalo, NYC etc. would be well within it's purview.
But Barr refuses to do that.
One would think that he would apply the same diligence and enthusiasm to investigating law enforcement organizations at the state level as he has at the Federal level, it is a core responsibility of the organization he leads.

one would think the woke democrat mayors of those cities who oversee the police departments in those that you mentioned and the other woke leftist cities would have done so....isn't it their responsibility, if this is a major problem in their cities...??? aren't they listening to their constituents, the people that elected them? What is stopping them??

[detbuch]

If the Seattle "block club" is pushing for a community to be fully responsible for policing itself, for its citizens having the unabridged right and duty to arm themselves, to protect their neighborhoods and personal homes and families, to decide how and what their children are taught without interference or "help" from the federal government, to decide what "services" they require in common from their community and pay for it themselves, to have the freedom to buy and sell whatever their community desires, to be free from onerous taxation by the federal government, and free from that government's regulations on what and how they can do to run their own lives, and to remain in the union of sovereign states under the supreme law of the Constitution under its original meaning in order to protect their desired autonomy--for starters--I might like what they're doing, depending on the rest of their story.

But if it's more of the same old kind of nonsense, special rights for special people, set asides, entitlements, perpetual welfare, dependence on government, and the government enforced modeling of humanity--hell no.

[Sea Dangles]

Are you suggesting the back community get their own house in order before calling in the police?
Snake Blisken wouldn’t stand a chance in a lawless Chicago.
Animals

[Sea Dangles]

Probably white nationalists trying to tarnish the squeaky clean image of a community watchdog group.

[The Dad Fisherman]

One historians opinion does not represent a consensus.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[t.orlando]

Build a giant cage around Chaz....re-game it Thunderdome, and let them play it out.

[Pete F.]

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

OAKLAND — An Air Force sergeant suspected of killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff’s sergeant will be charged, along with a Millbrae man, in the fatal shooting of a federal security officer last month in downtown Oakland, federal officials said Tuesday.

Officials said Carrillo harbored a hatred of law enforcement and had ties to a right-wing Boogaloo group that believes a second American Civil War is coming soon.

Underwood, a 53-year-old Pinole resident, was guarding the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland amid protests nearby over police brutality and the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The white van was captured on a surveillance video, officials said, which revealed that the gunman had slid open the van’s side door to fire the weapon.

An Air Force sergeant and leader in an elite military security force, Carrillo was armed with homemade bombs, an AR-15 rifle and other weapons and had a desire to harm police when he launched a deadly attack on unsuspecting officers, the Santa Cruz County sheriff said Monday.

Officials said Tuesday that Carrillo and Justus were not part of the protests and were taking advantage of them to carry out their attacks.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

.

Obviously, this means no Antifa are involved or, if they are, they are being peaceful and law abiding. After all, their name stands for anti-fascism. So with a good name like that they could not possibly be about doing bad stuff.

And don't go on about the myth that they do as much as they can to not be recognized. To not be obvious dum-dums like real fascists and white supremecists who proudly parade their wares and their ability to create mayhem and death.

[PaulS]

In New Mexico the two people dressed as militiamen were probably Antifa in disguise
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

It’s interesting to remember that less than a year ago Tweety’s FBI director told Congress that the "majority of the domestic terrorism cases we’ve investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence."
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

It’s interesting to remember that less than a year ago Tweety’s FBI director told Congress that the "majority of the domestic terrorism cases we’ve investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence."
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You mean like the Boogalo Bois who just shot and killed a federal agent at a protest?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Still waiting for all the Antifa arrests, meanwhile good ol' American's, not terrorists like them antifa boys are getting arrested and charged.

OAKLAND — An Air Force sergeant suspected of killing a Santa Cruz County sheriff’s sergeant will be charged, along with a Millbrae man, in the fatal shooting of a federal security officer last month in downtown Oakland, federal officials said Tuesday.

Officials said Carrillo harbored a hatred of law enforcement and had ties to a right-wing Boogaloo group that believes a second American Civil War is coming soon.

Underwood, a 53-year-old Pinole resident, was guarding the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland amid protests nearby over police brutality and the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The white van was captured on a surveillance video, officials said, which revealed that the gunman had slid open the van’s side door to fire the weapon.

An Air Force sergeant and leader in an elite military security force, Carrillo was armed with homemade bombs, an AR-15 rifle and other weapons and had a desire to harm police when he launched a deadly attack on unsuspecting officers, the Santa Cruz County sheriff said Monday.

Officials said Tuesday that Carrillo and Justus were not part of the protests and were taking advantage of them to carry out their attacks.

Good. Law enforcement caught them, investigated, and are going to determine a motive. May they be proescuted with the full extent of the law.

The people that killed Captain Dorn should be apprehended and prosecuted (see how that works).

THe people that killed others i anything but self defense should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Regardless of skin color, religion, or political leanings.