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| Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
08-17-2017, 11:16 AM
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#1
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
No one had an issue trying to tear down the last president for 8 years Why is this unacceptable now?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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No One......really??? NO ONE????
its just the other side of the same coin. |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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08-17-2017, 12:06 PM
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#2
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Middleboro MA
Posts: 17,119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso
No one had an issue trying to tear down the last president for 8 years Why is this unacceptable now?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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"No one" is quite an exaggeration but you are entitled to your opinion. I personally had a problem with the disrespect of the last president and it is uncalled for now no matter how much of a horrible person you think he is.
I did not say it's unacceptable now suddenly.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there should be a certain amount of respect.
Maybe he can get some negotiations done while battling everyone including media bashing 24/7, who knows, time will tell. I see his counterpunch got the mental guy in NK to back off the launch button at least. |
The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!
It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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08-17-2017, 10:31 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: north shore
Posts: 624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
Gotta run because of work but a couple points:
- Hold ALL politicians to a higher standard regardless of party
- Historical context between administrations does matter
- I really think Trump is a fool and a tool but he has not been afforded the same level of top cover that a Dem would get - because of Bias.
- That bias and the disastrous polices of Dem Politicians are why I am no longer a Democrat but a moderate, unaffiliated, generally independent
- I will put my history knowledge as better than 90% here - which is why I equate evil Commies with Evil Nazis
- I think the US Constitution is the greatest document to protect human kind ever
- The First Amendment even protects a s s hole Nazis and Klans and white Suprems - just as it protects good people like us and just as it protects those that would undermine it like Communitst, ANTIFA, Anarchists, etc.
- If you cannot separate why that is a good thing, even if it protects the despicable showboating of the Nazis then you do not understand or give enough emphasis on the environment that allowed the original Nazis (or Commies) space to grow.
We can have a further discuss later - perfect happy too.
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I dont disagree with most of what you have said. However, how Trump has handled what happened in Charlottesville was careless and offensive and ultimately I fear dangerous. There should not be much disagreement about that. |
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08-17-2017, 12:45 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,044
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This is all nonsense to me, the law protects Free Speech. If every time a group (any group) legally receives their permit to gather and protest, some other group shows up (without a permit) to shout over or start violence with the initial group, we are illegally preventing the initial groups free speech rights. I can't stand either group involved in this, but one attempted to protest the removal of the statue with a permit and the other one prevented them to lawfully protest. I would say the exact same thing if the situation was reversed. If it was Antifa and BLM with the permit to protest the statue and wanted it removed, and these Nazi groups showed up (without a permit) to shout them down then the law should protect the Antifa BLM people, just like in this case the police should have prevented the groups from interacting and prohibited the groups that were not holding permits from protesting.
The media spins it out of control about racist this and racist that. It's simply a law, want to hold a parade or protest for anything, legally get a permit, and then nobody should stop you from legally holding your event. if you don't support their cause, stay away and ignore them. DONT GIVE THEM MORE ATTENTION THAN THEY DESERVE. all this did was make more racists on both sides angrier and more resolved.
Last edited by Cool Beans; 08-17-2017 at 12:56 PM..
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08-17-2017, 06:23 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
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Still awaiting the lefts outrage that Trump has not had a forceful condemnation for those responsible for Barcelona today ...... he better do it soon or it will be too late
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-18-2017, 03:44 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman
Still awaiting the lefts outrage that Trump has not had a forceful condemnation for those responsible for Barcelona today ...... he better do it soon or it will be too late
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Trump pushes debunked 'pig's blood' myth, hours after Barcelona attack
Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!
another fail |
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08-18-2017, 08:36 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,200
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I can see a distinction bt a statue to the conferderate soldiers and to someone like Lee. Also, from what I have seen there seems to be a correlation bt when the statues got put up and when significant gains where made by minorities.
And I don't believe for a moment this was solely about a protest to leave statues up. If so, why the vile chants, the use of the torches, etc.
I haven't read all the posts but who are the good people who marched w/the Neo Nazis?
Can someone explain what is meant by "good"?
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08-18-2017, 09:02 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
I can see a distinction bt a statue to the conferderate soldiers and to someone like Lee. Also, from what I have seen there seems to be a correlation bt when the statues got put up and when significant gains where made by minorities.
And I don't believe for a moment this was solely about a protest to leave statues up. If so, why the vile chants, the use of the torches, etc.
I haven't read all the posts but who are the good people who marched w/the Neo Nazis?
Can someone explain what is meant by "good"?
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"And I don't believe for a moment this was solely about a protest to leave statues up"
Agreed, for many of the Nazis, it was just an excuse to vent their garden-variety racist fantasies. I don't think there were too may noted historians in that crowd who were afraid of losing monuments to history.
"why the vile chants"
I can say the same exact thing about Black Lives Matter. Something about wanting dead cops. And they got it. There are jerks out there. That's why the vile chants.
"are the good people who marched w/the Neo Nazis"
I have absolutely no idea, I don't think that was a wise choice of words. |
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08-19-2017, 04:08 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,124
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wrong place
Last edited by wdmso; 08-19-2017 at 04:09 AM..
Reason: wrong place
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08-18-2017, 01:51 PM
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#10
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 34,992
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Couple things, some of the lore and some of the statues are for the people that led those that defended their homes and some are considered memorials to those that were led and perished. Yes, some use them as symbols of hate.
Many of these statues and those they were modeled after, were part of the recovery from that war. No matter how poorly done.
When the Civil War was over, Lincoln had great hopes to pull people back together and mend our country. That may have happened much better had not some fool actor and his conspirators murdered Lincoln.
Reconstruction after the war was horrible and furthered our division.
Personally, I think it is up to the people that live in the districts to determine, by vote if necessary, on whether or not to remove them from public grounds. Not for those of us far and away to decide for them.
On private grounds, that is more up to the individual facilities.
As a northerner I have no great connection to those leaders but I can learn from them and respect some of their acts while still deploring others.
But we cannot and should not remove history. Thirty years ago I went to Dachacu and it leaves an impression on me to this day. What would some future generation know about the atrocities of WWII and the real Nazis if that is removed?
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~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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08-18-2017, 02:15 PM
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#11
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Middleboro MA
Posts: 17,119
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"Before landing the Charlottesville mayor job he previously worked closely with Podesta at the Center of American Progress and worked with him again on Barack Obama’s State Department Transition Team.George Soros, Obama, Podesta, Hillary Clinton and company, are pulling out all the stops to create division through chaos and destruction for one purpose – to destroy President Donald Trump.
Crowds of paid protesters and useful psychopaths are being sent into pitched battle against one another to sour the mood of the nation and further divide us all."
Michael Signer, the mayor of Charlottesville, ordered police to stand down during the most chaotic and destructive period of the protests – despite police protests against the orders.
http://truthuncensored.net/charlotte...ace-war-video/
difficult to believe this is true but if the cops follow orders like sheep, maybe it is true. they want to destroy the country from within. I'm sure this will be reported on MSNBC shortly
listen to the video if you can |
The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!
It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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08-18-2017, 03:05 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipknot
"Before landing the Charlottesville mayor job he previously worked closely with Podesta at the Center of American Progress and worked with him again on Barack Obama’s State Department Transition Team.George Soros, Obama, Podesta, Hillary Clinton and company, are pulling out all the stops to create division through chaos and destruction for one purpose – to destroy President Donald Trump.
Crowds of paid protesters and useful psychopaths are being sent into pitched battle against one another to sour the mood of the nation and further divide us all."
Michael Signer, the mayor of Charlottesville, ordered police to stand down during the most chaotic and destructive period of the protests – despite police protests against the orders.
http://truthuncensored.net/charlotte...ace-war-video/
difficult to believe this is true but if the cops follow orders like sheep, maybe it is true. they want to destroy the country from within. I'm sure this will be reported on MSNBC shortly
listen to the video if you can |
The truth shall set you free.
http://www.snopes.com/were-police-to...arlottesville/
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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08-18-2017, 03:36 PM
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#13
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe
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Well, then there might be something to all that Faux media paranoia out there, because I had read that on a couple of other news websites.
Irresponsible journalism???
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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08-19-2017, 03:56 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Somerset MA
Posts: 9,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe
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Just like stand down order in benghazi |
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08-18-2017, 09:05 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
I don't know that removing statues is re-writing history.
In and of itself, it might not be. But it also could be a part of rewriting history. The intent of far left, Marxist, Communist, even Socialist ideology is to replace the evils of human nature with an inflexible, inviolable, benevolent and "correct" governmental authority. That is facilitated by eliminating or "rewriting" historical facts. Authoritarianism has a history of erasing the past it wishes to change. Statues, churches, monuments, works of art, books, ideas, etc., have intentionally been destroyed, burned, erased from reality in order to promote the version of history that authoritarians wish to impose.
If there is a monument that is there just as an historical marker, that's fine. If the statue is a tribute to the man, that's something else. I was in Nashville last year, and saw a state of Robert E Lee. If the plaque said "Robert E Lee fought a battle here", I would have no problem with that. The plaque was an honor to the man, and the last line was something about thanking him "for the noble cause he dedicated to". Now, I can see where that is DEEPLY offensive to a lot of people. The noble cause, was the right to commit treason, for the sake of enslaving his fellow man. You can argue the cause was state's rights I guess.
Someone obviously thought the cause was noble. One of the definitions of noble in Meriam Webster is:
"possessing, characterized by, or arising from superiority of mind or character or of ideals or morals." And the following example of usage is, for instance, "a noble cause."
Biographical and historical accounts of what Lee believed are in line with how he acted. He believed in what he thought were the higher ideals of his culture, even though he believed slavery was wrong. He believed that eventually slavery would disappear. He believed in the Union and preferred that it should be preserved, but he had a moral obligation to abide by the laws of his State of Virginia. He was conflicted, but "nobly" did his duty. He was, it can be argued, an example of a noble character in his time of transition. Some note could be added to the statue's plaque to place his "nobility" in light of current thought. But he was an important person in the evolving character of this nation. And if we are to recognize the characters who shaped this country, the truth of who they were and what they believed is an important part of the story. Or we could just obliterate the past that we don't like, and make shinier the past we think is appropriate. Then we could have a beautiful fiction--which would probably offend a lot of people.
I see the left side on this one. But I also figure if Condaleeza Rice is fine with leaving them up, then why should I care if it doesn't bother her, she has a bigger dog in this hunt then me...
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On the other hand, we could obliterate all traces of "offensive" notions in history and create utopia. Not. Basically, much of what humans are or do, is offensive. Some believe humans are an offense to the planet. |
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08-18-2017, 10:10 AM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detbuch
On the other hand, we could obliterate all traces of "offensive" notions in history and create utopia. Not. Basically, much of what humans are or do, is offensive. Some believe humans are an offense to the planet.
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There is a lot of fake outrage out there, I agree with you. Paying tribute to those who committed treason for the purposes of maintaining slavery...I think it's worth having a conversation about whether or not that is cruel. I don't care what Webster says, it wasn't a noble cause. It was closer to pure evil, than it was to noble, in my opinion. Just my opinion, reasonable people can disagree, including one of my favorite reasonable people, Dr Condaleeza Rice.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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08-18-2017, 03:01 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Libtardia
Posts: 21,560
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That is a hard one to believe
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-20-2017, 11:19 AM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,200
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I like what Mitt Romney said whether he's intended to or not what he communicated caused racist to Rejoice, minorities to weep, and the vast Heart of America to mourn. His apologists train to explain that it didn't mean what we heard but what we heard is now the reality, and unless it is addressed by the president as such with unprecedented kander and strength through May commence and unraveling of our national fabric
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-20-2017, 07:58 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,429
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The Koch brothers aren't bankrupting any states. But labor unions sure as hell are.
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08-21-2017, 03:06 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
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Couldn't help but notice ,in Boston , those attacking people carrying the Israeli flag were the same ones opposing Nazis . Ironic
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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08-21-2017, 03:07 PM
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#21
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman
Couldn't help but notice ,in Boston , those attacking people carrying the Israeli flag were the same ones opposing Nazis . Ironic
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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What Nazis?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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08-21-2017, 05:36 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
What Nazis?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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The country is swarming with them… Pay attention man
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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08-21-2017, 07:15 PM
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#23
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Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 34,992
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Just saw a guy on FB post a photo of his new IWB holster so he can kill Nazis. Full blown Antifa / Bernie supporter.
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~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~
Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers
Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.
Apocalypse is Coming:
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08-21-2017, 08:07 PM
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#24
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Middleboro MA
Posts: 17,119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR
Just saw a guy on FB post a photo of his new IWB holster so he can kill Nazis. Full blown Antifa / Bernie supporter.
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Don't get near that guy and be mistaken for a Nazi 
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
The United States Constitution does not exist to grant you rights; those rights are inherent within you. Rather it exists to frame a limited government so that those natural rights can be exercised freely.
1984 was a warning, not a guidebook!
It's time more people spoke up with the truth. Every time we let a leftist lie go uncorrected, the commies get stronger.
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08-22-2017, 06:37 AM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,200
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Nazi/Neo Nazi?
Is that what we should be focusing on here.
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08-22-2017, 08:01 AM
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#26
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Nazi/Neo Nazi?
Is that what we should be focusing on here.
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How about Nazis/Not Nazis
I think I'm going to invent a new word:
Notzis - Its what you call a bunch of white people, gathered in a public place, that you go to protest for being Nazis....but then find out......they're Not |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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08-22-2017, 10:08 AM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,200
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Sorry, not following. So the neo nazis where not nazis so all is good w/our President's comments?
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08-22-2017, 10:13 AM
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#28
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Sorry, not following. So the neo nazis where not nazis so all is good w/our President's comments?
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Obviously you're not following, you're still on last weeks conversation.  we started talking about the Boston events. Probably should be a separate thread, but you know how things roll here. |
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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08-22-2017, 10:31 AM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,200
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I usually don't look on nights or weekends so I fall behind.
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