No gun problem in the US

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i’m not moved by self
serving apologies by politicians, even in my party. It was a ghoulish comment and the jerk should go away.

if you think hilary was correct, you may really not like what happens in november. I won't like what most likely happens in Nov. but it will be mostly bc of inflation.

just keep insulting the other side, all the polls show it’s working swell with independents. Rich coming from you.

democrats aren’t angry. right.
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NM

[wdmso]

It’s about weapon availability

The rest is window dressings designed to muddy the water
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

It’s about weapon availability

The rest is window dressings designed to muddy the water
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It's about your Constitutional Rights, exercising your Constitutional Rights, and the restrictions imposed on those rights. How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction, rather than restricting everyone while only, maybe, occasionally, excepting need.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

It's about your Constitutional Rights, exercising your Constitutional Rights, and the restrictions imposed on those rights. How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction, rather than restricting everyone while only, maybe, occasionally, excepting need.

That's completely, exactly correct.

"How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction"

Answer - obviously, we can't. Not a chance.

If a democrat president can trample on constitutional rights because he feels morally justified in doing so, then a Republican president can do the same thing. And the people calling for Biden to be able to ignore parts of the constitution they don't happen to like, won't like it one bit if Trump declared he was doing the same thing.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's completely, exactly correct.

"How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction"

Answer - obviously, we can't. Not a chance.

We MUST find a way. Problem is the effort to find a way isn't being made. SCOTUS even stated that there is no reason why 2A should not have the RIGHT as default, like other rights. Rather than being the only RIGHT which is hampered from outset.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If a democrat president can trample on constitutional rights because he feels morally justified in doing so, then a Republican president can do the same thing. And the people calling for Biden to be able to ignore parts of the constitution they don't happen to like, won't like it one bit if Trump declared he was doing the same thing.

True

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

We MUST find a way. Problem is the effort to find a way isn't being made.



True

i agree we must try, too many little coffins. but it will be abused.

we also need to start electing a different kind of politician. Normal, productive, decent people.
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

It's about your Constitutional Rights, exercising your Constitutional Rights, and the restrictions imposed on those rights. How do we effectively hamper only those that need restriction, rather than restricting everyone while only, maybe, occasionally, excepting need.

Like I said window dressing the rights been twisting the 2A argument for decades

It’s odd I have said own as many guns as you want and certain guns should be controlled and licensed accordingly

But the 2A extremist live in this fantasy that that’s an infringement of their rights and all roads lead to confiscation …


When was the last time you saw a Elmer Fudd at a 2 A rally ?

All I see are clowns in tactical gear with their tricked out weapons playing dress up. Mean while responsible gun owners like myself just sit back shaking their heads .. seeing 2A hijacked

Because that’s the image the extreme 2A groups want to present …. We are armed and dangerous

It’s pure selfishness . that’s how I see it .
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

It’s about weapon availability

The rest is window dressings designed to muddy the water
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That's not all it is, and I can prove it. Here goes...we all have access to that weaponry, but 99.5% of us would never even think of hurting anyone, no matter how many weapons are available. A big part of this, is that more and more of us are slipping into that mental abyss, and that abyss is getting darker and scarier all the time as our collective moral compass gets more and more broken.

You are correct, if there were zero guns out there, presumably there'd be zero gun crime. Problem is, there is no remotely practical way to eliminate gun availability which (1) is constitutional, and (2) is realistic to implement. I agree it's time to try things that haven't been tried before, but I don't believe gun control will move the needle much. It's been tried so many times. It never accomplishes much. What will be different this time? I do think we have to try just so we can tell our kids we didn't choose to do nothing, but I have no reason to believe it will work. None.

If there were no guns, there'd be no gun violence. At the same time, if there were no sociopaths walking among us, we could all have machine guns but there'd be no gun violence.

There are 2 levers to pull here, gun availability and the culture/mental illness aspect of our society. Both parties are guilty of focusing on one side and completely ignoring the other.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's not all it is, and I can prove it. Here goes...we all have access to that weaponry, but 99.5% of us would never even think of hurting anyone, no matter how many weapons are available. A big part of this, is that more and more of us are slipping into that mental abyss, and that abyss is getting darker and scarier all the time as our collective moral compass gets more and more broken.

You are correct, if there were zero guns out there, presumably there'd be zero gun crime. Problem is, there is no remotely practical way to eliminate gun availability which (1) is constitutional, and (2) is realistic to implement. I agree it's time to try things that haven't been tried before, but I don't believe gun control will move the needle much. It's been tried so many times. It never accomplishes much. What will be different this time? I do think we have to try just so we can tell our kids we didn't choose to do nothing, but I have no reason to believe it will work. None.

If there were no guns, there'd be no gun violence. At the same time, if there were no sociopaths walking among us, we could all have machine guns but there'd be no gun violence.

There are 2 levers to pull here, gun availability and the culture/mental illness aspect of our society. Both parties are guilty of focusing on one side and completely ignoring the other.

OMG Jim is going to prove something else, thank god he is here to set the record straight on the pressing issues of our lives

[Jim in CT]

here it is. really lousy parents. shocker.

we can’t get rid of the guns. We can love our kids.

How many mass murderers grew up in a house with a mom and a dad who were absolutely committed to the kids, everyone loves each other, went to church some sundays, ate dinner together most nights with electronics turned off?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/highland-...s-former-coach
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

here it is. really lousy parents. shocker.

we can’t get rid of the guns. We can love our kids.

How many mass murderers grew up in a house with a mom and a dad who were absolutely committed to the kids, everyone loves each other, went to church some sundays, ate dinner together most nights with electronics turned off?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/highland-...s-former-coach
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Wow you really think society as a whole is suddenly going to revert back to the 50’s family life style? Good dream while your sleeping, but if anything this country is more and more demanding on parents trying to earn a living and kids subject to crap that impacts their mental health and you can’t eliminate either pressure. The depth of gun violence in this country and the fact it’s just getting worse and more frequent is a sad statement on the American dream. You don’t want big brother watching you and even if you can monitor the internet traffic for troubled souls, plenty off the grid can still easily access high powered weapons. Guns remain the main issue.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wow you really think society as a whole is suddenly going to revert back to the 50’s family life style? Good dream while your sleeping, but if anything this country is more and more demanding on parents trying to earn a living and kids subject to crap that impacts their mental health and you can’t eliminate either pressure. The depth of gun violence in this country and the fact it’s just getting worse and more frequent is a sad statement on the American dream. You don’t want big brother watching you and even if you can monitor the internet traffic for troubled souls, plenty off the grid can still easily access high powered weapons. Guns remain the main issue.

i never ever said i thought that was going to happen. i said that the further away we get from that, the more f-cked up we are. i don’t see us ever going back, which is synonymous with saying i don’t see it getting better.

That 1950s style family unit, you know what? it worked on a whole lot of levels.

You also didn’t answer my question ( how many future mass murderers grew up in that scenario), and the reason you dodged, is because you know the answer, but it doesn’t serve your political agenda. so you ignored it.

you say we can’t relieve the pressure on parents or kids? Bullsh-t. My wife has been home for 12 years, we pulled that off by living within a lifestyle that we can afford on my salary. We sold our boat, our vacations are camping, one of our cars is a 13 year old
minivan, and we don’t go out drinking, gambling, spending money. We chose not to live in a way that guarantees pressure on both of us to make a living. It can be done. It involves sacrifice and not caring about possessions.

You say you can’t ease the pressure on kids to reduce how much they’re exposed to things that hurt them mentally?

BULLSH-T.

Parents, at least good parents, can significantly reduce that. but it takes work. talk to your kids, play with them, instead of letting them
spend 12 hours a day online while you gold or shop. it takes a ton of work. but it’s the job of parenting.

Based in your post, i’m glad i wasn’t your kid. You can reduce those pressures, but it takes sacrifice and work, two things liberals aren’t exactly known for.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i never ever said i thought that was going to happen. i said that the further away we get from that, the more f-cked up we are. i don’t see us ever going back, which is synonymous with saying i don’t see it getting better.

That 1950s style family unit, you know what? it worked on a whole lot of levels.

You also didn’t answer my question ( how many future mass murderers grew up in that scenario), and the reason you dodged, is because you know the answer, but it doesn’t serve your political agenda. so you ignored it.

you say we can’t relieve the pressure on parents or kids? Bullsh-t. My wife has been home for 12 years, we pulled that off by living within a lifestyle that we can afford on my salary. We sold our boat, our vacations are camping, one of our cars is a 13 year old
minivan, and we don’t go out drinking, gambling, spending money. We chose not to live in a way that guarantees pressure on both of us to make a living. It can be done. It involves sacrifice and not caring about possessions.

You say you can’t ease the pressure on kids to reduce how much they’re exposed to things that hurt them mentally?

BULLSH-T.

Parents, at least good parents, can significantly reduce that. but it takes work. talk to your kids, play with them, instead of letting them
spend 12 hours a day online while you gold or shop. it takes a ton of work. but it’s the job of parenting.

Based in your post, i’m glad i wasn’t your kid. You can reduce those pressures, but it takes sacrifice and work, two things liberals aren’t exactly known for.
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I don’t disagree with you Jim, what I’m saying is the reality is Parents have forgotten how to parent and it’s likely never going to reverse course. So if you agree that sadly is the case, the main problem remains, guns, guns and more guns. How does a kid who got knives and swords taken away because family reported him, can then turn around two years later and legally (big problem) buy all those weapons. He isn’t going dear or duck hunting, but we can’t legislate real impactful gun legislation.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I don’t disagree with you Jim, what I’m saying is the reality is Parents have forgotten how to parent and it’s likely never going to reverse course. So if you agree that sadly is the case, the main problem remains, guns, guns and more guns. How does a kid who got knives and swords taken away because family reported him, can then turn around two years later and legally (big problem) buy all those weapons. He isn’t going dear or duck hunting, but we can’t legislate real impactful gun legislation.

and there’s 400 million guns out there, plus the second amendment, so that’s never going to reverse course.

Look, i agree we have to try something with gun control, but that’s mostly out of desperation and political expediency. There’s little evidence to suggest it will do much.

We have a to. if gins and a decaying moral compass with our collective culture. That’s two big problems. Each side wants to pretend there only one issue.

If the problem is guns, guns, guns, what would you propose? There’s 400 million guns out there already. The criminals aren’t going to voluntarily hand theirs over.
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[Pete F.]

Odd how the time people fantasize as perfect is before they were born
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[Pete F.]

The stories out of Highland Park about kids knowing exactly what to do when the shooting began, and guiding parents based on their active shooting drills, embody the burden of violence this next generation of kids endure because of the inaction of their elders.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The stories out of Highland Park about kids knowing exactly what to do when the shooting began, and guiding parents based on their active shooting drills, embody the burden of violence this next generation of kids endure because of the inaction of their elders.
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agreed. and both parties are running various states and have been in control of DC at different times, and neither has accomplished anything. both parties get a well deserved F on this issue.
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[Pete F.]

Ahh, both sides
Well one side is and has for more than ten years been running political ads with candidates posing with and using assault style rifles, threatening their political opponents.
https://youtu.be/bZZ2Y6fAq8o

The same side removed the functioning assault weapons ban.
The same side has blocked comprehensive healthcare reform, police reform, weapon liability reform and any control of who can possess a weapon.
The city with the highest murder rate in the USA has no gun laws except against a concealed weapon, so perhaps gun laws actually work.

And before you claim things are impossible, remember this is the country where a guy got on a plane twenty years ago with a bomb in his shoe and ever since everyone has dutifully taken their shoes off when boarding a plane

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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Ahh, both sides
Well one side is and has for more than ten years been running political ads with candidates posing with and using assault style rifles, threatening their political opponents.
https://youtu.be/bZZ2Y6fAq8o

The same side removed the functioning assault weapons ban.
The same side has blocked comprehensive healthcare reform, police reform, weapon liability reform and any control of who can possess a weapon.
The city with the highest murder rate in the USA has no gun laws except against a concealed weapon, so perhaps gun laws actually work.

And before you claim things are impossible, remember this is the country where a guy got on a plane twenty years ago with a bomb in his shoe and ever since everyone has dutifully taken their shoes off when boarding a plane

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Pete, I'm convinced you would support the Gestapo.

[JohnR]

Cookie Cutter MAGA, clearly

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Cookie Cutter MAGA, clearly

Apparently you’ve never seen the people at a Trump rally
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Cookie Cutter MAGA, clearly

What everybody thinks of, when the think of a Republican.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Pete, I'm convinced you would support the Gestapo.

As A Christian, I remind you that Jesus was a gun-loving nationalist who opposed abortion, immigration, labor unions, gay rights & Communists.

Oh wait; did I say Jesus?

Sorry, I meant Hitler.
Jesus did none of that.
That was all Hitler’s agenda.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Ahh, both sides
Well one side is and has for more than ten years been running political ads with candidates posing with and using assault style rifles, threatening their political opponents.
https://youtu.be/bZZ2Y6fAq8o

The same side removed the functioning assault weapons ban.
The same side has blocked comprehensive healthcare reform, police reform, weapon liability reform and any control of who can possess a weapon.
The city with the highest murder rate in the USA has no gun laws except against a concealed weapon, so perhaps gun laws actually work.

And before you claim things are impossible, remember this is the country where a guy got on a plane twenty years ago with a bomb in his shoe and ever since everyone has dutifully taken their shoes off when boarding a plane

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Sorry, I live in CT, which has been a 50 year experiment in pure, unchecked liberalism. New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, are all disgusting and dangerous. There has been nothing but liberalism for 50 years. Bankrupt, failing sh*tholes.

I said both sides get an F, and you respond by saying conservatives failed, shich I already conceded so I don't know what you are responding.

What's happening, in New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, is more than enough proof that liberalism isn't the answer either.

Pete, ignoring every single policy failure on your side might make you feel better about your side, but it's not how rational people judge success or failure.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Sorry, I live in CT, which has been a 50 year experiment in pure, unchecked liberalism. New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, are all disgusting and dangerous. There has been nothing but liberalism for 50 years. Bankrupt, failing sh*tholes.

I said both sides get an F, and you respond by saying conservatives failed, shich I already conceded so I don't know what you are responding.

What's happening, in New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, is more than enough proof that liberalism isn't the answer either.

Pete, ignoring every single policy failure on your side might make you feel better about your side, but it's not how rational people judge success or failure.

Apparently it feels good to you, just how powerful do you think city governments are?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Apparently it feels good to you, just how powerful do you think city governments are?
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If I concede that cities are powerless (which I don't), the state of CT has also implemented nothing but pure liberalism for 50 years. And again, New Haven, Bridgeport, and Hartford are dangerous and disgusting. So whose fault is that, the state government of Texas?

You want to know how powerful a city can be at reducing crime? Look at what happened in NYC before, during, and after Rudy's tenure, tells you everything you need to know.

Facts are facts, even the ones you don't happen to like.

Here's what liberals really struggle with. You want to improve things like crime? Look at what other places have done, and look at the results. Put politics aside, and repeat what has been shown to work, and avoid repeating what has been shown to fail.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If I concede that cities are powerless (which I don't), the state of CT has also implemented nothing but pure liberalism for 50 years. And again, New Haven, Bridgeport, and Hartford are dangerous and disgusting. So whose fault is that, the state government of Texas?

You want to know how powerful a city can be at reducing crime? Look at what happened in NYC before, during, and after Rudy's tenure, tells you everything you need to know.

Facts are facts, even the ones you don't happen to like.

Here's what liberals really struggle with. You want to improve things like crime? Look at what other places have done, and look at the results. Put politics aside, and repeat what has been shown to work, and avoid repeating what has been shown to fail.

I showed you previously that the crime rate in NYC started going down before rudy started harassing Blacks for no reason other than being Black, continued after they stopped harassing Blacks for no other reason that being Black and went down all across the country where they weren't harassing Blacks for no other reason than being Black.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Sorry, I live in CT, which has been a 50 year experiment in pure, unchecked liberalism. New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, are all disgusting and dangerous. There has been nothing but liberalism for 50 years. Bankrupt, failing sh*tholes.

I said both sides get an F, and you respond by saying conservatives failed, shich I already conceded so I don't know what you are responding.

What's happening, in New Orleans, Baltimore, Chicago, is more than enough proof that liberalism isn't the answer either.

Pete, ignoring every single policy failure on your side might make you feel better about your side, but it's not how rational people judge success or failure.

NH is great. Have you ever been to East Rock or Westville? Big cities are where the poor, sick, etc. go. Compare the liberal states to the conserv. states and you will see which states need the help.

[Pete F.]

“On police and crime prevention.
I am not just a former Senior Patrol agent. I graduated with honors from Auburn University with a bachelor of science in criminal law with an emphasis on policing. So, I understand what policing can and cannot do. Politicians often talk about crime and reducing or preventing crime as part of what police do. This is incorrect. Anyone who’s studied the organization and structure of policing knows this. Police are inherently a reactive system. A crime is being committed or has been committed, and they respond.
Policing is rarely proactive. There are cases where cops may have Intel that a crime is expected to happen and they can stop it before it happens, but those are less common. Police are generally a reactive system. If you want a proactive police force, then you have to give up most of your rights for security. You must allow them to monitor people’s movement, communications and everyday activities. This was something most Americans at one time, even in my lifetime, agreed upon. We preferred to have more freedom than being constantly monitored.
We required cops meet certain standards before listening to our calls or breaking down our doors. This is why we had Miranda rights and rules about warrants. Freedom from police unreasonable searches and seizures is enshrined in the Constitution after all.
And though this freedom has not always been applied equally to all Americans, it did exist in concept and did offer Americans a bit of a check over police abuse. Essentially, after 9/11, politicians and police have seized on this unreasonable and unattainable level of safety.
They must monitor when and where we leave and enter the country, what we did, who we talked to, our emails, our texts, our social media. We must pass through checkpoint after checkpoint if we live within 100 miles of any land or sea border, which 2/3 of us do.
We must prove our citizenship, prove we are who we say we are, where we are coming from and what we are doing. In many border towns like Uvalde, TX, almost everyone knows a cops. They are everywhere. School districts, ports, local, state, federal. Yet, mass murders like xxxx still happen. And we look to all these cops and ask why. We look to our politicians and ask why. And they look back at us and say they need more money, more weapons and more cops. But here’s the thing, we could all be cops, and we cannot stop these mass shootings. Why?
Because policing is inherently reactive. To be proactive about crime, we must look to what causes people to commit crimes and how crimes are defined. We can be proactive about poverty, hunger, lack of opportunities, mental healthcare, healthcare, responsible gun laws, etc.
We can be proactive about social work and ensuring people do not fall through the cracks. That is what being proactive about crime means; it is preventing the circumstances they often cause one to commit a crime. Police have none of these skills. So, the next time a politician or cop says the answer to crime and mass shootings is more cops, weapons and money, tell them you want to address the causes of crime in your community. More guns, cops and money does not prevent crime. It does not make us safer. Uvalde proved that.”
Jenn Budd
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[Got Stripers]

Don’t do anything and it’s just more of the same.