Charlottesville

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Duke just thanked Trump for Trump being Trump. The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again and Trump just fuels the fire with his inability to lead. Just hard to believe millions were systematically murdered by the Nazis and this president has to have tons of pressure brought to bear on him before he even tries (to late arse hole) to condemn them for what they are. Yes there were probably idiots on both sides of the lines, but for the president to not immediately take a leadership role and condemn these groups for what they are is just so sad. Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Duke just thanked Trump for Trump "

So Trump is directly responsible for anything done, by anyone who pays a compliment to him?

GS, if ISIS was going to have endorsed a candidate in the 2016 race, who would it have been? Answer - Hilary. Does that mean she is sympathetic to ISIS? Answer - no.

"The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again "

His daughter is a Jew for Christ's sake, and so is his son-in-law, who Trump obviously respects deeply. So he's an anti-Semite now?

I have never seen a reaction like this, I have never seen irrationality on this scale. The funny thing is, there are a million legitimate reasons to criticize the guy. But we never stop bending over backwards to connect him with anything evil that happens.

Whew.

"Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp."

That is true.

How is it, that when he says "I condemn bigotry and violence on all sides", that you interpret that as "I have nothing critical to say about white supremacists"?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Duke just thanked Trump for Trump "

So Trump is directly responsible for anything done, by anyone who pays a compliment to him?

GS, if ISIS was going to have endorsed a candidate in the 2016 race, who would it have been? Answer - Hilary. Does that mean she is sympathetic to ISIS? Answer - no.

"The Boston Jewish memorial vandalized again "

His daughter is a Jew for Christ's sake, and so is his son-in-law, who Trump obviously respects deeply. So he's an anti-Semite now?

I have never seen a reaction like this, I have never seen irrationality on this scale. The funny thing is, there are a million legitimate reasons to criticize the guy. But we never stop bending over backwards to connect him with anything evil that happens.

Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out. And yes I'd have the exact same issue for Hilary if in some surreal world you suggest might exist where isis supporters are allowed to protest and she doesn't react immediately and call evil out.
Whew.

"Presidential is a word he has yet to understand or grasp."

That is true.

How is it, that when he says "I condemn bigotry and violence on all sides", that you interpret that as "I have nothing critical to say about white supremacists"?

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out"

I was camping in the woods last week, and watched zero TV. So no, I did not see the press conference you refer to. Can you tell me what he said exactly, where he actually defended the white supremacists? That would be outrageous.

[boot man]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Did you listen to his news conference, I doubt it, he clearly was defending those he refused to call out"

I was camping in the woods last week, and watched zero TV. So no, I did not see the press conference you refer to. Can you tell me what he said exactly, where he actually defended the white supremacists? That would be outrageous.

You should be able to find it online fairly easy so you can make your own judgments.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Here’s the timeline of events on Aug. 12:

7:39 a.m. – David Duke, the former Klan leader, tweets, “Today will be a historic day, remembered as the moment everything changed. #Charlottesville #UniteTheRight”

8:30 a.m. – Demonstrators begin to gather. The Virginia State Police posts a photo at 8:40 a.m. on its Twitter account of men carrying weapons and wearing fatigues. “Participants for today’s rally at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville begin to arrive. #cvilleaug12”

10:30 a.m. – First outbreak of violence.

11 a.m. – CNN leads its 11 a.m. hour with footage of the clashes between the protesters and counterprotesters. White nationalists can be seen holding wooden shields, carrying weapons and wearing helmets.

11:28 a.m. – Virginia governor declares a state of emergency.

11:37 a.m. – Virginia State Police tweets, “UPDATE: Unlawful assembly declared at Charlottesville rally #cvilleaug12”

11:55 a.m. – Police start to make arrests. State police tweets at 11:55 a.m., “Arrests are being made following declaration of unlawful assembly at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville. #cvilleaug12”

12:40 p.m. – Protesters and counterprotesters gather at nearby Justice Park.

1:02 p.m. – Corinne Geller, a spokeswoman for Virginia State Police, says in an interview with Fox News that “all sides” had engaged in throwing bottles and other debris in what had been — as of that point — a violent, but non-fatal confrontation.

1:19 p.m. – Trump tweets, “We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!”

1:31 p.m. – CNN airs an interview with Duke at the rally, which he said represents a “turning point.” The former Klan grand wizard said, “We’re going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said we’re going to take our country back. And that’s what we gotta do.”

1:40 p.m. – A driver, later identified as James Alex Fields Jr., speeds down Fourth Street and into a crowd of counterprotesters who are marching in the street. Fields then throws the car in reverse and speeds away.

2:01 p.m. – On Twitter, Duke criticizes Trump’s tweet calling for everyone to “condemn all that hate stands for.” Duke retweets Trump’s post and writes, “So, after decades of White Americans being targeted for discriminated & anti-White hatred, we come together as a people, and you attack us?”

2:03 p.m. – Duke posts a second tweet to Trump. In it, Duke says, “I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists.”

2:14 p.m. – Virginia State Police posts a photo of the crash scene, saying “several pedestrians” were struck and that there were “multiple injuries.”

2:49 p.m. – Fox News posts a video of the car attack. The Fox News reporter says that witnesses described the attack as “absolutely intentional.”

3:30 p.m. – CNN reports it had “now confirmed from Charlottesville Mayor Mike Signer that one person has died, in fact, today during the violent events in the city.”

3:33 p.m. – Trump speaks about Charlottesville at a bill-signing ceremony. He blames “many sides” for the violence.

4:18 p.m. – Fox News tweets that the driver was in custody for “intentional collaborated car attack in #charlottesville.”

5 p.m. – Shortly after 5 p.m., a Virginia State Police helicopter monitoring the rally crashes and two state troopers are killed.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Text of Press Conference


TRUMP: Great to be back in New York with all of our friends and some great friends outside the building, I must tell you.

I want to thank all of our distinguished guests who are with us today, including members of our cabinet: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, O.M.B. Director Mick Mulvaney, and of course our transportation secretary, who’s doing a fabulous job, Elaine Chao. Thank you all for doing a really incredible and creative job on what we are going to be discussing today, which is infrastructure. We’ve just had a great set of briefings upstairs on our infrastructure agenda.





My administration is working every day to deliver the world-class infrastructure that our people deserve, and that frankly our country deserves. That’s why I just signed a new executive order to dramatically reform the nation’s badly broken infrastructure permitting process.
Continue reading the main story







Just blocks away is the Empire State Building. It took 11 months to build the Empire State Building. But today it can take as long as a decade, and much more than that. Many, many stories where it takes 20 and 25 years just to get approvals to start construction of a fairly routine highway. Highway builders must get up to 16 different approvals involving nine different federal agencies governed by 29 different statutes. One agency alone can stall a project for many, many years and even decades. Not only does this cost our economy billions of dollars, but it also denies our citizens the safe and modern infrastructure they deserve.

This overregulated permitting process is a massive, self-inflicted wound on our country. It’s disgraceful. Denying our people much needed investments in their community. And I just want to show you this, because it was just shown to me. I think I’m going to show it to the media, both real and fake media, by the way. This is what it takes to get something approved today.

Elaine, you see that. So this is what it takes, permitting process flow chart. That’s a flowchart. So that can go out to 20 years. This shows about 10. But that can go out to about 20 years to get something approved. This is for a highway. I have seen a highway recently in a certain state. I won’t mention its name. It is 17 years. I could have built it for $4 or $5 million without the permitting process. It costs hundreds of millions of dollars, but it took 17 years to get it approved and many, many, many, many pages of environmental impact studies. This what we will bring it down to. This is less than two years. This is going to happen quickly. That’s what I’m signing today. This will be less than two years for a highway. So it’s going to be quick. It’s going to be a very streamlined process. And by the way, if it doesn’t meet environmental safeguards, we are not going to approve it. Very simple. We are not going to approve it. Maybe this one will say, let’s throw the other one away. Would anybody like it from the media? Would anybody like that long, beautiful chart? You can have it. So my executive order also requires agencies to work together efficiently by requiring one lead agency for each major infrastructure project. It also holds agencies accountable if they fail to streamline their review process.

So each agency is accountable. We’re going to get infrastructure built quickly, inexpensively, relatively speaking. And the permitting process will go very, very quickly. No longer will we tolerate one job killing delay after another. No longer will we accept a broken system that benefits consultants and lobbyists at the expense of hard-working Americans.

Now I knew the process very well, probably better than anybody. I had to get permits for this building and many of the buildings I built, all of the buildings I built in Manhattan and many other places. And I will tell you that the consultants are rich people. They go around making it very difficult. They lobby Congress. They lobby state government, city governments to make it very difficult so that you have to hire consultants and that you have to take years and pay them a fortune. So we are streamlining the process, and we won’t be having so much of that anymore. No longer will we allow the infrastructure of our magnificent country to crumble and decay. While protecting the environment, we will build gleaming new roads, bridges, railways, waterways, tunnels and highways. We will rebuild our country with American workers, American iron, American aluminum, American steel. We will create millions of new jobs and make millions of American dreams come true. Our infrastructure will again be the best in the world. We used to have the greatest infrastructure anywhere in the world. And today, we are like a third-world country. We are literally like a third-world country. Our infrastructure will again be the best. And we will restore the pride in our communities, our nation. And all over the United States will be proud again.

So I want to thank everybody for being here. God bless you. God bless the United States. And if you have any questions, we have Mick. You could come up here, please. Come on up. Mick Mulvaney.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

REPORTER: Why do you think these C.E.O.’s are leaving your manufacturing council?





TRUMP: Because they’re not taking their jobs seriously as it pertains to this country. But we want jobs, manufacturing in this country. If you look at some of those people that you are talking about, they are outside of the country. They are having a lot of their product made outside. If you look at Merck as an example, take a look — excuse me, excuse me — take a look at where their product is made. It’s made outside of our country. We want products made in the country. Now I have to tell you, some of the folks that will leave, they’re leaving out of embarrassment, because they make their products outside. And I have been lecturing them, including the gentleman that you are referring to, about you have to bring it back to this country. You can’t do it necessarily in Ireland and all of these other places. You have to bring this work back to this country. That’s what I want. I want manufacturing to be back into the United States so that American workers can benefit.

REPORTER: Why did you wait so long — [cross talk]

TRUMP: I didn’t wait long. I didn’t wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement but you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. It is a very, very important process to me. It is a very important statement. So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts. If you go back to my statement, I brought it. I brought it.

[cross talk]

As I said, remember, Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America. And then I went on from there. Here is the thing. Excuse me. Take it nice and easy. Here is the thing. When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. In fact, a lot of the event didn’t happen yet as we were speaking. This event just happened. Before I make a statement, I need the facts. So I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent. In fact, the young woman, who I hear is a fantastic young woman, and it was on NBC, her mother wrote me and said through I guess Twitter, social media, the nicest things. And I very much appreciated that. I hear she was a fine, really actually, an incredible young woman. Her mother, on Twitter, thanked me for what I said. And honestly, if the press were not fake and if it was honest, the press would have said what I said was very nice. But unlike you … [cross talk]... and unlike the media, before I make a statement, I like to know the facts.

[cross talk]

How about a couple of infrastructure questions.

REPORTER: The C.E.O. of Walmart said you missed a critical opportunity to help bring the country together. Did you?

TRUMP: Not at all. I think the country — look, you take a look. I’ve created over a million jobs since I’m president. The country is booming. The stock market is setting records. We have the highest employment numbers we have ever had in the history of our country. We are doing record business. We have the highest levels of enthusiasm, so the head of Walmart, who I know, who’s a very nice guy, was making a political statement.

[cross talk]

I would do it the same way, because I want to make sure when I make a statement that the statement is correct. And there was no way of making a correct statement that early. I had to see the facts, unlike a lot of reporters. [cross talk] I didn’t know David Duke was there. I wanted to see the facts. And the facts, as they started coming out, were very well-stated. In fact, everybody said his statement was beautiful. If he would have made it sooner, that would have been good. I couldn’t have made it sooner, because I didn’t know all of the facts. Frankly, people still don’t know all of the facts. It was very important — [cross talk] excuse me, excuse me. It was very important to me to get the facts out and correctly. Because if I would have made a fast statement — and the first statement was made without knowing much other than what we were seeing. The second statement was made with knowledge, with great knowledge. There are still things — [cross talk] excuse me. There are still things that people don’t know. I want to make a statement with knowledge. I wanted to know the facts.

REPORTER: Two questions: Was this terrorism? And can you tell us how you are feeling about your chief strategist Steve Bannon?

TRUMP: Well I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family and this country. You can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. There is a question. Is it murder? Is it terrorism? Then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. What he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing.





REPORTER: Can you tell us how you are feeling about your chief strategist, Mr. Bannon?

TRUMP: Go ahead.

[The Dad Fisherman]

ANOTHER REPORTER: Steve Bannon — I would echo Maggie’s question.

TRUMP: I never spoke to Mr. Bannon about it.

REPORTER: But can you tell us broadly, do you still have confidence in Steve?

TRUMP: Well, we’ll see… Look, look, I like Mr. Bannon. He is a friend of mine. Mr. Bannon came on very late. You know that. I went through 17 senators, governors and I won all the primaries. Mr. Bannon came on very much later than that. And I like him. He is a good man. He is not a racist. I can tell you that. He is a good person. He actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. We’ll see what happens with Mr. Bannon. He is a good person and I think the press treats him frankly very unfairly.

[cross talk]

REPORTER: Senator McCain has called on you to defend your national security adviser, H.R. McMaster against these attacks.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: I’ve already done … I did it the last time.

[cross talk]

REPORTER: … and he called on you again, linking it to the alt-Right…

[cross talk]

TRUMP: Senator McCain? You mean the one that voted against Obamacare? You mean Senator McCain who voted against us getting good health care?

REPORTER: Senator McCain said that the alt-right is behind these and he linked that same group to those that perpetrated the attack in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Well, I don’t know. I can’t tell you. I’m sure Senator McCain must know what he is talking about. When you say the alt-right. Define alt-right to me. You define it. Go ahead. No, define it for me. Come on. Let’s go.





REPORTER: Senator McCain defined them as the same group —

[cross talk]

TRUMP: What about the alt-left that came charging at — Excuse me — What about the alt-left that came charging at the, as you say, the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt? [cross talk] Let me ask you this: What about the fact that they came charging, that they came charging with clubs in their hands swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do. So, you know, as far as I’m concerned, that was a horrible, horrible day.

[cross talk]

Wait a minute. I’m not finished. I’m not finished, fake news. That was a horrible day.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: I will tell you something. I watched those very closely, much more closely than you people watched it. And you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that. But I’ll say it right now.

[cross talk]

You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.

REPORTER: Do you think that what you call the alt-left is the same as neo-Nazis?

TRUMP: All of those people — Excuse me — I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue, Robert E. Lee.

So — excuse me — and you take a look at some of the groups and you see and you would know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases, you are not. But, many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it is Robert E. Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson is coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

But they were there to protest — excuse me — you take a look, the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. Infrastructure question. Go ahead.

REPORTER: Does the statue of Robert E. Lee stay up?

TRUMP: I would say that is up to a local town, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located.





REPORTER: Are you against the Confederacy?

REPORTER: How concerned are you about race relations in America and do you think things have gotten worse or better since you took office?

TRUMP: I think they’ve gotten better or the same. Look they have been frayed for a long time. And you can ask President Obama about that because he would make speeches about it.

But I believe that the fact that I brought in, it will be soon, millions of jobs, you see where companies are moving back into our country. I think that’s going to have a tremendous positive impact on race relations.

We have companies coming back into our country. We have two car companies that just announced. We have Foxconn in Wisconsin, just announced. We have many companies, I say, pouring back into the country. I think that’s going to have a huge, positive impact on race relations.

You know why? It is jobs. What people want now, they want jobs. They want great jobs with good pay. And when they have that, you watch how race relations will be. And I’ll tell you we are spending a lot of money on the inner cities. We are gonna fix, we are fixing the inner cities. We are doing far more than anybody has done with respect to the inner cities. It is a priority for me. And it’s very important.

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you are calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

TRUMP: I am not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch. But there is another side. There was a group on this side, you can call them the left. You have just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

REPORTER: You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides?

TRUMP: Well I do think there’s blame. Yes, I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it. And you don’t have doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say.





REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest —

TRUMP: Excuse me. They didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis. And you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.

You had people in that group — excuse me, excuse me — I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

[cross talk]

TRUMP: George Washington as a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down — excuse me — are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good.

Are we going to take down the statue? Cause he was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? So you know what? It’s fine. You are changing history, you’re changing culture. You had people and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. O.K.? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

REPORTER: Who has the press treated unfairly? Sir, I’m sorry, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just didn’t understand what you were saying.

TRUMP: No, no. There were people in that rally. I looked the night before. If you look, they were people protesting very quietly the taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee. I am sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day, it looked like they had some rough, bad people, neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them. But you had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest.

Because I don’t know if you know, they had a permit. The other group didn’t have a permit. So I only tell you this. There are two sides to a story. I thought what took place was a horrible moment for our country, a horrible moment. But there are two sides to the country. Does anybody have a final question? Do you have an infrastructure question?





REPORTER: What makes you think you can get an infrastructure bill? You didn’t get health care, you didn’t get tax reform...

TRUMP: Well, you know, I’ll tell you. We came very close with health care. Unfortunately, John McCain decided to vote against it at the last minute. You’ll have to ask John McCain why he did that. But we came very close to health care. We will end up getting health care. But we’ll get the infrastructure. And actually infrastructure is something I think we’ll have bipartisan support on. I actually think Democrats will go along with the infrastructure.

REPORTER: Mr. President, have you spoken to the family of the victim of the car attack?

TRUMP: No. I will be reaching out.

REPORTER: When will you be reaching out?

TRUMP: I thought that the statement put out, the mother’s statement, I thought was a beautiful statement. I tell you, it was something that I really appreciated. I thought it was terrific. Under the kind of stress that she is under and the heartache that she is under, I thought putting out that statement to me was really something I won’t forget. Thank you all very much. Thank you.

REPORTER: Do you plan to go to Charlottesville, Mr. President?

[cross talk]

TRUMP: Does anyone know I own a house in Charlottesville? It is in Charlottesville. You’ll see.

REPORTER: Is that the winery?

TRUMP: It is the winery. [cross talk] I mean, I know a lot about Charlottesville. Charlottesville is a great place that’s been very badly hurt over the last couple of days. I own actually one of the largest wineries in the United States. It’s in Charlottesville.

REPORTER: What do you think needs to be done to overcome the racial divides in this country?

TRUMP: I really think jobs can have a big impact. I think if we continue to create jobs, over a million, substantially more than a million. And you see just the other day, the car companies coming in, with Foxconn. I think if we continue to create jobs at levels that I’m creating jobs, I think that’s going to have a tremendous impact, positive impact, on race relations.

REPORTER: What you said today, how do you think that will impact the racial —?

TRUMP: Because the people are going to be working. They’re going to be making a lot of money, much more than they ever thought possible. That’s going to happen. The other thing, very important: I believe wages will start going up. They haven’t gone up for a long time. I believe wages now, because the economy is doing so well, with respect to employment and unemployment, I believe wages will start to go up. I think that will have a tremendously positive impact on race relations. Thank you.

[Nebe]

CtJim. Are you saying white supremesists are not evil??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

CtJim. Are you saying white supremesists are not evil??
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Please post exactly what I said, that could possibly make you think, I don't consider them to be evil.

[Jim in CT]

I read TDF's posts, every word. I don't see how a rational person could read that, and even come close to concluding that Trump "defended" the white supremacists. Because he said some people in the crowd were good people? How do we know there weren't some non-violent people there, who simply don't agree with taking the statues down? Condaleeza Rice said this week, she doesn't think the statues should come down. Oh my God, she's a white supremacist!!!! We had a white supremacist as sec state!!!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I read TDF's posts, every word. I don't see how a rational person could read that, and even come close to concluding that Trump "defended" the white supremacists. Because he said some people in the crowd were good people? How do we know there weren't some non-violent people there, who simply don't agree with taking the statues down? Condaleeza Rice said this week, she doesn't think the statues should come down. Oh my God, she's a white supremacist!!!! We had a white supremacist as sec state!!!

Right, but when he says "some" people come across the border and are rapist and murderers he means "all" Mexicans. It's confusing .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I read TDF's posts, every word. I don't see how a rational person could read that, and even come close to concluding that Trump "defended" the white supremacists. Because he said some people in the crowd were good people? How do we know there weren't some non-violent people there, who simply don't agree with taking the statues down? Condaleeza Rice said this week, she doesn't think the statues should come down. Oh my God, she's a white supremacist!!!! We had a white supremacist as sec state!!!

The fact he didn't take the opportunity to specifically and IMMEDIATELY call out those groups for what they are and in the strongest language tell them by name, we as Americans will never allow your BS to gain momentum.

A strong leader with any common sense would still be able comment on people going too far and operating outside the freedoms of free speech on both sides and STILL take a very hard line stance on what those Nazi F-heads and white supremacists are spouting. He has no moral backbone at all, he clearly showed that in his private life, nothing has changed. He can come down hard and easily label the fake media, the lying Clinton's, the nut job FBI director, emasculate his own attorney general and other appointed cabinet members; but he can't label these groups for what they are?

I'm so glad I cast my vote elsewhere and not because I thought Hilary was that much better, mainly because I see this clown for what he is. I get there is a lot of bad corruption in Washington. I get there is way too much government. I get that term limits are way out of line. I get that things are way over regulated. I get all these things, so you Trump supporters, who love to post links, complete transcripts of the latest news conference and spout what has been so wrong for so long, you don't have to convince me we need change; I just don't see this guy being the answer. In fact I think he has become part of the problem, because his inability to take the fing reigns and govern means we all loose.

Where is the leadership? Where is the ground breaking legislation? Where is the new health care he promised for all and that it would happen quickly; the same day in fact......what a naive idiot to think that coming in. Where is the Mexican financed wall? Tax reform, better lock up Twitter and get to work. You have stiffened the boarders and made us weaker in our own back yard.

I hope for us all that he somehow get's his #^&#^&#^&#^& together. I hope for us all he can grow a pair and ignore the noise and do some God damn presidential governing; but I just think this guy is a big fat looser and I'm really not confident he can thicken his skin, get off his Twitter account long enough to do some actual governing.

[JohnR]

Both sides ARE to blame. It is not a question of moral equivalency. If you break it down the @$$hole Gooose Stepping WhiteNats had a permit under the First Ammendment to show what @$$holes they are.

Then the GooseStepping Communists (admittedly the historical counter to Nazis if you look at history) started their sheit - again.

Both Antifa and the NeoNazis are complete and utter scum. One has cover by 1A and the other has cover by 1A and the Press. Both are incompatible with liberty.

If the Nazis/WhiteNays come to do a protest I might counter protest, but not if the effing commies are going to be there.

You wanna know a good indicator of how socialism/communism sucks so bad? The East German beer tasted like #^&#^&#^&#^& compared to west German beer.

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Inadvertently stumbled upon a blm rally in Charleston tonight on my way to eat the best steak I ever sank my teeth into . They were huddled around a statue of a redneck named Calhoun. One person out of the 50 or so was black🤷🏿#^&♂️. This has given a cause to liberals who simply look for a cause. People need to get something to rally around but Kaepernick found it before Trump was even elected. Yet some folks like Wayne want to pretend it started with the cheetoh.
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Yep. ^^ This.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

so you Trump supporters, who love to post links, complete transcripts of the latest news conference and spout what has been so wrong for so long, you don't have to convince me we need change; I just don't see this guy being the answer.

This is what I love about this forum. A thread about the Charlottesville riot and arguing about Trumps inability to lead, someone says they didn't see the presidents comments. I post the Press Conference so he can see said comments....BOOM!!!! TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!

Sorry I thought that the actual comments said were relevant to the conversation, and the actual timeline of events might be important as well.

Carry On....

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

This is what I love about this forum. A thread about the Charlottesville riot and arguing about Trumps inability to lead, someone says they didn't see the presidents comments. I post the Press Conference so he can see said comments....BOOM!!!! TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!

Sorry I thought that the actual comments said were relevant to the conversation, and the actual timeline of events might be important as well.

Carry On....

I stated someone might not have seen the interview, never asked to see it word for word. My problem with Trump isn't with what he said, it's for what he didn't say at the very beginning. You can point out people from both sides did wrong, but not taking that initial oportunity to call a spade a spade is why I think he just isn't the leader many (even his own party are scratching their heads on this one) had hoped he might evolve into.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

The same folks who condemn The Cheato for not using strong enough language regarding the latest struggle were silent when Obama refused to single out radical Islamic terrorism. Funny how convenient it becomes when it suits the agenda ..
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Well that is not fair. Everyone knows Obama, the pillar of repeatable integrity, would quickly call out terrorism when it was likely/possibly Islamic Extremism at the last possible moment, just like when police officers act stupidly. But then again, it really is not fair to cherry pick examples like I just did.

Originally Posted by wdmso

Funny some people are more upset over Kaepernick .. And I see no support for him exercising his 1st Amendment rights .. but Nazis thats different ... the problem is you thought this was never a problem .. theses people have always been around in the shadows as I said some blame O for BLM but wont hold the Cheeto same standard ..

1A is not that and you know better. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Kaepernick was not arrested nor detained. He has been praised by some, criticized by others, as a result of his actions. Like the Nazis, CK was exercising his 1A rights - should he be denied them? If he chooses not to be peaceful, and same for Nazis or Antifa, he should be considered a candidate for arrest and charges.

Nazis, WhiteNats, as abhorrent as they are, do have the right under the Constitution to peacefully assemble and they were doing their "redress of grievances". The same rights that BLM, World Without Police, and the Antifa Communists that ironically would impose a state that prevents freedom of speech and liberty.

When we allow politicians and groups with agendas to start picking and choosing what citizens are offered Constitutional protection and what citizens are not, we have failed.

Originally Posted by scottw

were they protesting in the name of Christ?...musta missed that

Some were protesting that way and some have that as part of their core belief.

[boot man]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

This is what I love about this forum. A thread about the Charlottesville riot and arguing about Trumps inability to lead, someone says they didn't see the presidents comments. I post the Press Conference so he can see said comments....BOOM!!!! TRUMP SUPPORTER!!!

Sorry I thought that the actual comments said were relevant to the conversation, and the actual timeline of events might be important as well.

Carry On....

You didn't know you were being set up? That's why I told him to watch for himself. He was looking for someone to report their opinion so he could attack it. No one did. But you posted next. As I tell my kids, I hope you learned from that mistake. Go in peace.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by boot man

You didn't know you were being set up? That's why I told him to watch for himself. He was looking for someone to report their opinion so he could attack it. No one did. But you posted next. As I tell my kids, I hope you learned from that mistake. Go in peace.
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Jim didn't say boo about it, not sure how that was a setup. Guy says he was camping, didn't see it. I showed him.

How is that a setup.

Strange rules in this twisted universe
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by boot man

You didn't know you were being set up? That's why I told him to watch for himself. He was looking for someone to report their opinion so he could attack it. No one did. But you posted next. As I tell my kids, I hope you learned from that mistake. Go in peace.
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I was looking for someone to show me a clip, or a transcript, that could rationally lead one to conclude that Trump supported the Nazis. TDF posted the transcript. I saw zilch in there that could be reasonably be interpreted, as defense of bigotry. I saw the opposite. And I do not like Trump one bit. But I am fair about it.

How did I set TDF up? What did I do with what he posted? Did I use it against him? I read it, and concluded that if Trump says "I condemn bigotry and violence" 35 times, I conclude he's therefore not a Nazi sympathizer. If Trump says "I condemn bigotry", and everyone on the left hears "I like bigotry", I think that's your problem, not his problem.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

The fact he didn't take the opportunity to specifically and IMMEDIATELY call out those groups for what they are and in the strongest language tell them by name, we as Americans will never allow your BS to gain momentum.

A strong leader with any common sense would still be able comment on people going too far and operating outside the freedoms of free speech on both sides and STILL take a very hard line stance on what those Nazi F-heads and white supremacists are spouting. He has no moral backbone at all, he clearly showed that in his private life, nothing has changed. He can come down hard and easily label the fake media, the lying Clinton's, the nut job FBI director, emasculate his own attorney general and other appointed cabinet members; but he can't label these groups for what they are?

I'm so glad I cast my vote elsewhere and not because I thought Hilary was that much better, mainly because I see this clown for what he is. I get there is a lot of bad corruption in Washington. I get there is way too much government. I get that term limits are way out of line. I get that things are way over regulated. I get all these things, so you Trump supporters, who love to post links, complete transcripts of the latest news conference and spout what has been so wrong for so long, you don't have to convince me we need change; I just don't see this guy being the answer. In fact I think he has become part of the problem, because his inability to take the fing reigns and govern means we all loose.

Where is the leadership? Where is the ground breaking legislation? Where is the new health care he promised for all and that it would happen quickly; the same day in fact......what a naive idiot to think that coming in. Where is the Mexican financed wall? Tax reform, better lock up Twitter and get to work. You have stiffened the boarders and made us weaker in our own back yard.

I hope for us all that he somehow get's his #^&#^&#^&#^& together. I hope for us all he can grow a pair and ignore the noise and do some God damn presidential governing; but I just think this guy is a big fat looser and I'm really not confident he can thicken his skin, get off his Twitter account long enough to do some actual governing.

"A strong leader with any common sense "

He's not a strong leader and he doesn't have a lot of common sense. That's not remotely the same thing, as him being a Nazi sympathizer.

You were the one who implied he is somehow to blame for a synagogue getting vandalized. Ivanka and her husband are Jews.

Criticize him all day long for being a bully, a jerk, a baby, a narcissist., a womanizer. There is all the evidence in the world that he is all of those things. There is zero evidence he sympathizes with white supremacists, and plenty of evidence he condemns them.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"A strong leader with any common sense "

He's not a strong leader and he doesn't have a lot of common sense. That's not remotely the same thing, as him being a Nazi sympathizer.

You were the one who implied he is somehow to blame for a synagogue getting vandalized. Ivanka and her husband are Jews.

Criticize him all day long for being a bully, a jerk, a baby, a narcissist., a womanizer. There is all the evidence in the world that he is all of those things. There is zero evidence he sympathizes with white supremacists, and plenty of evidence he condemns them.

I never blamed Trump for the Jewish memorial being trashed for a second time, but I think the rhetoric he used all throughout the campaign and since validates and in some cases encourages these nuts to take action where maybe without that presidential OK they might not have. I wouldn't have to look far to bring numerous examples of Trumps words encouraging violence throughout his campaign and since.

The 900+ hate groups in this country love this POTUS; just ask David Duke. It's sad that we have this many hate groups in the USA, I was somewhat surprised to see the scope of that list this morning. I also think it's sad that we have so many disillusioned youths in this country, that might not have any affiliation with these groups, but might be more easily pushed towards violence with all the attention this is getting.

Yeah I agree the media is brutal towards Trump, but if you keep throwing a nice chunk of Bunker in front of their face every single day, they are going to take the bait. Hey it is fishing board guys, lets have a little humor, this board, the media and everything you read is just do depressing.

I've said it before, I hope Trump just get's his head out of his arse and gets back on the task of governing. It's no secret I think he is a clown, but for the sake of the country and the well being of us all, I wish he turns this around soon. Take the news clip I just saw briefly over lunch and let me say up front, I don't know if this is true or not. If Trump is now looking to save the Robert E. Lee statue, I have to shake my head and say are you Fing kidding me. The guy just doesn't know when to change the rhetoric and the course of things towards a solution or to take positive steps to diffuse a bad situation. Instead let's throw more wood on the fire and suggest a man that tried to take the country down and was a known brutal slave owner, that his likeness is somehow something we should look up to.

I just have to question is he even listening to the people around him? He is a gut jerk, reactionary, thin skinned fool.

[Slipknot]

Yes Bob, he sure is not Ronald Reagan that's for sure.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I never blamed Trump for the Jewish memorial being trashed for a second time, but I think the rhetoric he used all throughout the campaign and since validates and in some cases encourages these nuts to take action where maybe without that presidential OK they might not have. I wouldn't have to look far to bring numerous examples of Trumps words encouraging violence throughout his campaign and since.

The 900+ hate groups in this country love this POTUS; just ask David Duke. It's sad that we have this many hate groups in the USA, I was somewhat surprised to see the scope of that list this morning. I also think it's sad that we have so many disillusioned youths in this country, that might not have any affiliation with these groups, but might be more easily pushed towards violence with all the attention this is getting.

Yeah I agree the media is brutal towards Trump, but if you keep throwing a nice chunk of Bunker in front of their face every single day, they are going to take the bait. Hey it is fishing board guys, lets have a little humor, this board, the media and everything you read is just do depressing.

I've said it before, I hope Trump just get's his head out of his arse and gets back on the task of governing. It's no secret I think he is a clown, but for the sake of the country and the well being of us all, I wish he turns this around soon. Take the news clip I just saw briefly over lunch and let me say up front, I don't know if this is true or not. If Trump is now looking to save the Robert E. Lee statue, I have to shake my head and say are you Fing kidding me. The guy just doesn't know when to change the rhetoric and the course of things towards a solution or to take positive steps to diffuse a bad situation. Instead let's throw more wood on the fire and suggest a man that tried to take the country down and was a known brutal slave owner, that his likeness is somehow something we should look up to.

I just have to question is he even listening to the people around him? He is a gut jerk, reactionary, thin skinned fool.

"but I think the rhetoric he used all throughout the campaign and since validates and in some cases encourages these nuts to take action"

And the guy who shot up the softball game in DC, was inspired by Bernie Sanders. There are kooks out there. I never once heard anyone claim Sanders was responsible for that. Because he wasn't.

Now, Bernie Sanders doesn't have a history of saying stupid, irresponsible things like Trump does when he says he'll pay to defend anyone who gets arrested for punching a protestor in the face. But for anyone to take that idiotic statement, and make the leap to running someone down in their car, is an act of madness, and I don't think Trump is responsible for that.

Trump's past statements show that he is a jerk. I don't think they show that he sympathizes with white supremacists. What about all of his clear denunciations of David Duke, the Klan, and bigotry?

Trump should have been more thoughtful in his statement. But no matter what he said, 99% of the media was going to attack him for it. It just doesn't matter what he says or does.

[doc]

"you also had people that were VERY FINE people on BOTH sides."

perhaps you missed that comment which is similar to his original comment 'many sides' and his many comments suggesting that people on both sides are to blame...which is an obvious and disgusting attempt at moral equivalence. that is beneath the office of the presidency regardless of party and it should be an outrage that unites us all...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by doc

"you also had people that were VERY FINE people on BOTH sides."

perhaps you missed that comment which is similar to his original comment 'many sides' and his many comments suggesting that people on both sides are to blame...which is an obvious and disgusting attempt at moral equivalence. that is beneath the office of the presidency regardless of party and it should be an outrage that unites us all...

Don't forget the Neo Nazis had permits. The people protesting against them didn't.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Don't forget the Neo Nazis had permits. The people protesting against them didn't.

That's that pesky 1st amendment again. they are allowed to be there, no matter how much people hate them.

[doc]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That's that pesky 1st amendment again. they are allowed to be there, no matter how much people hate them.

I don't dispute that but to use that as argument how that 'side' had a right to be there vs the 'other side' didn't by the president is a gross way to express the importance of first amendment rights when it comes to a neo Nazi march that resulted the death of an innocent woman....

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by doc

"you also had people that were VERY FINE people on BOTH sides."

perhaps you missed that comment which is similar to his original comment 'many sides' and his many comments suggesting that people on both sides are to blame...which is an obvious and disgusting attempt at moral equivalence. that is beneath the office of the presidency regardless of party and it should be an outrage that unites us all...

There were people on multiple sides to blame. there were also more than just two sides. you had two groups of a-holes that escalated this situation this weekend, Neo-nazis and ANTIFA....both groups need to share the blame for what happened this weekend.

[doc]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

There were people on multiple sides to blame. there were also more than just two sides. you had two groups of a-holes that escalated this situation this weekend, Neo-nazis and ANTIFA....both groups need to share the blame for what happened this weekend.

disagree kevin. there may be a-holes and jerks all around but that is not equivalent to neo-nazis and white supremacists. we fought a war about this

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by doc

disagree kevin. there may be a-holes and jerks all around but that is not equivalent to neo-nazis and white supremacists. we fought a war about this

I never said anything about the quality of the people, I said more than one side gets to share in the blame.

ANTIFA started pushing and shoving and that's when the chit hit the fan. That woman may still be alive if people just let those asshats say there stupid BS rhetoric and moved on.

Nobody in their right mine is going to put neo nazis on a moral pedestal
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