Sondland putting the nail in the coffin

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Why did Sondland read a 23-page opening statement which didn’t include the words “by the way, this is all presumption, i have zero direct evidence connecting Trump to this.”? gimme an alternative reason for excluding such a key fact from
a 23 page opening statement.
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Because as any lawyer can tell you, direct evidence is not required to prove the crime.
In this case you likely won’t get it unless Colludy flips, it’s pretty apparent the definition of the ask was his job. Everybody else was supposed to stay in line and move the agenda.
That’s the way “Drug Deals” work.
Fiona will explain it again today, but you’ll claim there Isn’t evidence that is not required.
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[scottw]

there is no crime

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

there is no crime

nope. not until we hear what Durham has to say about FISA abuses, that is. But all the libs here, as testament to their
non partisanship and dedication to getting the truth, have already concluded that the investigation is a nothing burger, despite the fact that nothing has been released yet. but somehow they already know.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Because as any lawyer can tell you, direct evidence is not required to prove the crime.
In this case you likely won’t get it unless Colludy flips, it’s pretty apparent the definition of the ask was his job. Everybody else was supposed to stay in line and move the agenda.
That’s the way “Drug Deals” work.
Fiona will explain it again today, but you’ll claim there Isn’t evidence that is not required.
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i thought it wasn’t a criminal proceeding, but a fact finding inquiry? The FACT is that the only direct evidence Sondland has, is that trump specifically said he didn’t want a quid pro quo ( which WDMSO has concluded is evidence that he ordered a quid
pro quo). everything else, as he said explicitly, is his “presumption”, which isn’t a fact.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i thought it wasn’t a criminal proceeding, but a fact finding inquiry? The FACT is that the only direct evidence Sondland has, is that trump specifically said he didn’t want a quid pro quo ( which WDMSO has concluded is evidence that he ordered a quid
pro quo). everything else, as he said explicitly, is his “presumption”, which isn’t a fact.
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You three amigos crack me up, with all these testimonies confirming there would be no meeting, no aid and no movement without Trump getting his public statement on investigation being opened into 2016, Barisma and by association the Bidens.

Each talking point the GOP has had is slowly being crushed in testimony. Sondland was going to be their guy and he turned out to be killer for proving there was a QPQ and the scope of involvement. All about corruption, yet in May it was determined by the proper methods and agencies, the Ukraine government had done all needed to clear the aid. Wait there was no pressure, Ukraine didn’t know the aid was being held, oh crap Cooper and others prove oh yes they did know.

He will be impeached in the house, with all this debate, are any of you three amigos suggesting he won’t be impeached? Maybe time to move on to what should happen in the senate and in 2020.

You can see the desperation in the questions by the republicans, especially in the public comments by Trump and here in the futile attempt to say no crime. Just such a stretch to say because Trump didn’t get his public statement and investigations, that nothing was wrong and he didn’t abuse his power. A failed bank robbery doesn’t mean the robber goes free.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You three amigos crack me up, with all these testimonies confirming there would be no meeting, no aid and no movement without Trump getting his public statement on investigation being opened into 2016, Barisma and by association the Bidens.


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try to pay attention...there was a meeting, aid and movement without trump getting a public statement on investigation

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

You three amigos crack me up, with all these testimonies confirming there would be no meeting, no aid and no movement without Trump getting his public statement on investigation being opened into 2016, Barisma and by association the Bidens.

Each talking point the GOP has had is slowly being crushed in testimony. Sondland was going to be their guy and he turned out to be killer for proving there was a QPQ and the scope of involvement. All about corruption, yet in May it was determined by the proper methods and agencies, the Ukraine government had done all needed to clear the aid. Wait there was no pressure, Ukraine didn’t know the aid was being held, oh crap Cooper and others prove oh yes they did know.

He will be impeached in the house, with all this debate, are any of you three amigos suggesting he won’t be impeached? Maybe time to move on to what should happen in the senate and in 2020.

You can see the desperation in the questions by the republicans, especially in the public comments by Trump and here in the futile attempt to say no crime. Just such a stretch to say because Trump didn’t get his public statement and investigations, that nothing was wrong and he didn’t abuse his power. A failed bank robbery doesn’t mean the robber goes free.
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what evidence are we denying? who “confirmed” anything?

two guys on the call, said the aid wasn’t contingent on an investigation.

Yesterday, we heard from a guy who trump specifically told he didn’t want a quid pro quo.

all claims trump directed the quid pro quo, are hearsay and presumption. that is fact.

as i said, if i had to bet, i’d bet trump did it. but do we overturn a fair presidential election based on jersey and presumption? and again, even if he did it, biden did the same thing. no one cared. biden bragged about it on tv. why is it so awful for the executive branch to use leverage to get a foreign power to discover the truth about what americans might be doing there?

you guys are very dedicated to get facts related to trumps corruption, but have zero interest in finding out the truth about what biden may have done. if that’s not based on partisanship, what is it?

he’ll probably be impeached in the house, no way he gets convicted in the senate. it may hurt his chances of re election, it may be a big boost. for sure it’s helping his fund raising.

republican questions show desperation? ok. it’s an act of desperation to ask, “what evidence do you have, that the alleged act ever took place?”.

if say that’s a fair, obvious question. one that democrats are avoiding asking. why do you suppose that is?

“ a failed bank robbery doesn’t mean the robber goes free.”

To incarcerate the robber, you need
a whole lot more than someone saying, that he heard from someone else, that the suspect robbed the bank.


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[Got Stripers]

Investigations into American citizens are NOT done by foreign powers and certainly NOT to benefit POTUS personally and NOT when the end game is interference in our elections, that is what this is about. If Trump felt an investigation was warranted there are proper channels, but in true Trump fashion, he knows better and of course he eats conspiracy theories for breakfast.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Investigations into American citizens are NOT done by foreign powers and certainly NOT to benefit POTUS personally and NOT when the end game is interference in our elections, that is what this is about. If Trump felt an investigation was warranted there are proper channels, but in true Trump fashion, he knows better and of course he eats conspiracy theories for breakfast.

"Investigations into American citizens are NOT done by foreign powers"

The hell they aren't, if the citizen is doing something fishy in another country. You're saying Ukraine has no sovereign authority to see if American citizens are breaking Ukraine laws while in Ukraine? Remember when Bill Clinton was president, some spoiled brat American teenager was living in Saudi Arabia (?), got caught vandalizing cars with spray paint. Saudi law calls for caning as punishment. Clinton looked into it, a lot of people wanted Clinton to intervene, he didn't (good for him), the kid was caned. But Clinton absolutely asked the Saudi government to let him know exactly what they discovered that this kid was doing.

"certainly NOT to benefit POTUS personally"

Nonsense, much of what Presidents (all politicians ) do, is done to help them get re elected.

"If Trump felt an investigation was warranted there are proper channels"

Please, please cite the rule or law which says that Trump asking the Ukranian president, isn't the proper way to do it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i thought it wasn’t a criminal proceeding, but a fact finding inquiry? The FACT is that the only direct evidence Sondland has, is that trump specifically said he didn’t want a quid pro quo ( which WDMSO has concluded is evidence that he ordered a quid
pro quo). everything else, as he said explicitly, is his “presumption”, which isn’t a fact.
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Then why do you keep saying there’s no direct evidence
The crime of bribery is committed on the ask.
Try explaining to a judge that you didn’t commit a crime because the cop didn’t take the money
The shoebomber shouldn’t be in jail because the bomb didn’t go off
Circumstantial evidence is admissible and Floridaman asked in the memo, Mulvaney admitted it on TV, Rudy tweeted it
Just how much do you need?
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[scottw]

democrats are just like the woman screaming at the white cat

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Then why do you keep saying there’s no direct evidence
The crime of bribery is committed on the ask.
Try explaining to a judge that you didn’t commit a crime because the cop didn’t take the money
The shoebomber shouldn’t be in jail because the bomb didn’t go off
Circumstantial evidence is admissible and Floridaman asked in the memo, Mulvaney admitted it on TV, Rudy tweeted it
Just how much do you need?
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This is coming from the same camp that insists illegal aliens are not criminals.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

This is coming from the same camp that insists illegal aliens are not criminals.
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there’s also that...
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

This is coming from the same camp that insists illegal aliens are not criminals.
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Yes to enter the country is illegal it is also a misdemeanor. oh the horror

Yet Trump can ask for dirt from a foreign government. He can say there was no quid pro quo..on a phone call days after the whistleblowers complaint . (convenient ) After all the info and his own white House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, confirmed that Mr. Trump was indeed offering a quid pro quo during that July 25 call, but dismissed the controversy and said people needed to “get over it.”

From Trumps mouth
I would like you to do us a favor and

Trump asked Zelenskiy to work with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr to look into Biden and his son

Or Giuliani’s public comments — like when he acknowledged in May that some might find his efforts to make Ukraine investigate Trump’s political rivals “improper” —
To see one only needs to open ones EYES
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Yet Trump can ask for dirt from a foreign government. He can say there was no quid pro quo..on a phone call days after the whistleblowers complaint . (convenient ) After all the info and his own white House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, confirmed that Mr. Trump was indeed offering a quid pro quo during that July 25 call, but dismissed the controversy and said people needed to “get over it.”

From Trumps mouth
I would like you to do us a favor and

Trump asked Zelenskiy to work with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr to look into Biden and his son

Or Giuliani’s public comments — like when he acknowledged in May that some might find his efforts to make Ukraine investigate Trump’s political rivals “improper” —
To see one only needs to open ones EYES
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"Yet Trump can ask for dirt from a foreign government"

How do you know, without an investigation, that there wasn't actual wrongdoing? If an investigation uncovered actual corruption, is that "dirt"? Or is it "truth"? You are awfully afraid of seeking the truth on this issue.

"He can say there was no quid pro quo"

It's not just him saying it. Every single witness who has firsthand knowledge, denied it. Every. Single. One. Zero exceptions.

Again, you're saying the offense was the quid pro quo. Right? How did Biden not engage in quid pro quo? Yes, Trump wanted a political opponent looked at, and Biden wanted a crook fired. But both times (assuming Trump demanded quid pro quo), Biden/Trump used the leverage of a quid pro quo to get what they wanted. But it's only an issue when Orange Man does it. If he did it, an allegation for which there is precisely zero evidence.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Yes to enter the country is illegal it is also a misdemeanor. oh the horror

Yet Trump can ask for dirt from a foreign government. He can say there was no quid pro quo..on a phone call days after the whistleblowers complaint . (convenient ) After all the info and his own white House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, confirmed that Mr. Trump was indeed offering a quid pro quo during that July 25 call, but dismissed the controversy and said people needed to “get over it.”

From Trumps mouth
I would like you to do us a favor and

Trump asked Zelenskiy to work with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and Attorney General William Barr to look into Biden and his son

Or Giuliani’s public comments — like when he acknowledged in May that some might find his efforts to make Ukraine investigate Trump’s political rivals “improper” —
To see one only needs to open ones EYES
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You seem like you are on the verge of tears. Get a hold of yourself.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Then why do you keep saying there’s no direct evidence
The crime of bribery is committed on the ask.
Try explaining to a judge that you didn’t commit a crime because the cop didn’t take the money
The shoebomber shouldn’t be in jail because the bomb didn’t go off
Circumstantial evidence is admissible and Floridaman asked in the memo, Mulvaney admitted it on TV, Rudy tweeted it
Just how much do you need?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i keep saying there’s no direct evidence, because there is none.

and if what trump allegedly did is bribery, why isn’t biden also accused of bribery?

the shoe bomber was caught with the bomb in his shoe. he wasn’t convicted because someone testified that they overheard someone else say he was a shoe bomber.

Is that going too fast for you?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i keep saying there’s no direct evidence, because there is none.

and if what trump allegedly did is bribery, why isn’t biden also accused of bribery?

the shoe bomber was caught with the bomb in his shoe. he wasn’t convicted because someone testified that they overheard someone else say he was a shoe bomber.

Is that going too fast for you?
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Floridaman said it in the memo and admitted it in public
Mulvaney admitted it in public
Colludy texted it and said it in an interview
Floridaman exhibited it in his call to Sondland by saying no quid pro quo, unsolicited, that’s not part of his limited vocabulary and it’s admissible
Do me a favor and think about it
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