PP - Thread Split Off Topic - derailment

[justplugit]

Thread split (more like derailment)

[spence]

In 1992 Ben Carson did research with fetal tissue obtained from abortion.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

In 1992 Ben Carson did research with fetal tissue obtained from abortion.

c'mon Spence...with all of your context, massaging of truth, diversion and cheerleading for scallywags....you can do much better than a simple minded low information voter statement like that.....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

In 1992 Ben Carson did research with fetal tissue obtained from abortion.

For whatever it's worth, I think he is saying that is not true. Unless his denial referred to sometihng else.

He also said in the interview this week, that he had no ethical quarrel with doing research on fetal tissue. I don't think that's necessarily inconsistent, with being appalled at the PP videos. There are legal/ethical ways to obtain tissue, and unethical/illegal ways.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

He also said in the interview this week, that he had no ethical quarrel with doing research on fetal tissue. I don't think that's necessarily inconsistent, with being appalled at the PP videos. There are legal/ethical ways to obtain tissue, and unethical/illegal ways.

Jim, where does fetal tissue come from?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, where does fetal tissue come from?

It doesn't all come from planned parenthood. We had a mid-term miscarriage a few years ago, it was of the type which, sorry for being blunt, required the removal of the tissue from my wife. We gave consent for the tissue to be used for research, if it was found that there was any value to it. I see notihng unethical with that tissue being used, but I hate what Planned Parenthood was discussing on the videos. I don't think that makes me a hypocrite.

I'm an organ donor. That doesn't mean I want someone to pull the plug on me early, or to alter my treatment at all, just so they can get a more bountiful harvest. "Hey Jim, we're suffering a shortage of brains for research, so we're going to hang you upside down until you die, to get more blood into your brain, that will be better for research."

Some people prefer to let nature take its course.

[Nebe]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/politi...rch/index.html
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[spence]

And Planned Parenthood isn't the only abortion provider.

You keep insisting they're trying to push abortions to get more tissue, the law prohibits that. So far we've not sees anything that indicates a violation of the law.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

And Planned Parenthood isn't the only abortion provider.

You keep insisting they're trying to push abortions to get more tissue, the law prohibits that. So far we've not sees anything that indicates a violation of the law.

I never said they push abortions to get more tissue. Can you point to where I said that?

What I said, and it's supported by the videotapes, is that they alter abortion procedures for the specific intent of maximizing the harvest. That is illegal under federal law, and I don't see how anyone could watch those tapes, and not conclude that the PP staff is confessing to that crime. Maybe they didn't actually do it, maybe they were being dishonest on the video. But the videos clearly show that they claimed that they re-position the fetus before it is killed, to maximize the useful tissue/organs. That is a violation of federal law.

I don't think I'm saying it clearly. But in at least one video, the PP lady was very specific about how they position the baby a specific was before it is killed. That's against the law.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't think I'm saying it clearly. But in at least one video, the PP lady was very specific about how they position the baby a specific was before it is killed. That's against the law.

You're not listening.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You're not listening.

I'm trying.

Forget about doingabortions for harvest, forget about doing it for profit. Focus on one thing - the fact that federal law prohibits any abortion from being altered for the purposes of harvesting tissue. You cannot change th way you do an abortion, simply because you want more harvestable tissue afterward.

Said one PP staffer, Melissa Farrell, director of research, said this on tape..."so IF WE ALTER OUR PROCESS, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then we can make it part of the budget"

That indicates to me, that PP may be violating the law, which says one cannot alter the procedure for that reason.

Please tell me what I am not hearing...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm trying.

Forget about doingabortions for harvest, forget about doing it for profit. Focus on one thing - the fact that federal law prohibits any abortion from being altered for the purposes of harvesting tissue. You cannot change th way you do an abortion, simply because you want more harvestable tissue afterward.

Said one PP staffer, Melissa Farrell, director of research, said this on tape..."so IF WE ALTER OUR PROCESS, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then we can make it part of the budget"

That indicates to me, that PP may be violating the law, which says one cannot alter the procedure for that reason.

Please tell me what I am not hearing...

There are multiple methods of abortion that are all acceptable under what's considered a standard process. If the doctor deems the method chosen doesn't negatively impact the woman or alter the timing then this wouldn't be a violation of the law.

Of course, the video edits all this out.

Also remember the remark about line items was prompted by the imposters trying to get a higher selling price for impact. Again in the edited video they don't show the PP representative stating this would have to be broken out in the budget so it didn't appear as though they were selling the fetal tissue at a higher price.

[Nebe]

If say Jim is winning this argument. However the role of planned parenthood and its services outweigh the desire to cut funding.

I'd be much more in favor of forced sterilization of males and females that have not moved off of welfare for more than 5 years.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

If say Jim is winning this argument. However the role of planned parenthood and its services outweigh the desire to cut funding.

For Jim to win any argument he'd have to take an objective look.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by spence

For Jim to win any argument he'd have to take an objective look.

Into the GOP talking points handbook ?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Into the GOP talking points handbook ?
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I've stated major issues where I side with liberals - death penalty, gay marriage. I can think for myself just fine.

When was the last time Spence disagreed with the Dems on a major policy issue. Have fun with that one, Spence?

Yo, Spence! Did Hilary lie about getting shot at? Can you concede that? Come on, show us all how objective and independent you are. Now go hide under your bed until you think of how to dodge.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

If say Jim is winning this argument. However the role of planned parenthood and its services outweigh the desire to cut funding.

I'd be much more in favor of forced sterilization of males and females that have not moved off of welfare for more than 5 years.
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"I'd be much more in favor of forced sterilization of males and females that have not moved off of welfare for more than 5 years"

Amen, brother.

As for PP, there are lots of female health organizations that aren't engaged in this sick activity. Let's cut funding for PP, and give that money to those other groups.

PP was also founded by Margaret Sanger, an extreme racist even by Klan standards, she really wanted to eradicate blacks. PP is doing a great job toward that goal.

[PaulS]

The weekend is here - this is closed until Monday at 8:00.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The weekend is here - this is closed until Monday at 8:00.

I love Paul, nicely done...everybody go fishing

[Nebe]

Abortion has its place. A woman is raped and gets pregnant... I'm pretty sure I'd give that one the green light. A woman in her 40's has a brain dead fetus... And is going to lead a life as a vegetable. I say go for it.

These are horrible choices, but these are choices that a woman should be allowed to make. One of the best sayings I have heard about abortion is if you are against them, then don't have one.
Our constitutional rights guarantee us personal liberties and freedoms that allow this practice to happen and who cares what the original founder's motives were? If PP is defended and closes, I guarantee you that we will see back ally coat hanger abortions skyrocket. It's a sad truth.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Abortion has its place. A woman is raped and gets pregnant... I'm pretty sure I'd give that one the green light. A woman in her 40's has a brain dead fetus... And is going to lead a life as a vegetable. I say go for it.

These are horrible choices, but these are choices that a woman should be allowed to make. One of the best sayings I have heard about abortion is if you are against them, then don't have one.
Our constitutional rights guarantee us personal liberties and freedoms that allow this practice to happen and who cares what the original founder's motives were? If PP is defended and closes, I guarantee you that we will see back ally coat hanger abortions skyrocket. It's a sad truth.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Rape is a very low % of abortions in this country. The vast majority in this country, are done for sheer convenience, to healthy women who have had consensual sex. It's repugnant. Rape is a different moral dilemma, as are situations when the moms life is in danger, which thankfully almost never happens.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Abortion has its place. A woman is raped and gets pregnant... I'm pretty sure I'd give that one the green light. A woman in her 40's has a brain dead fetus... And is going to lead a life as a vegetable. I say go for it.

These are horrible choices, but these are choices that a woman should be allowed to make. One of the best sayings I have heard about abortion is if you are against them, then don't have one.
Our constitutional rights guarantee us personal liberties and freedoms that allow this practice to happen and who cares what the original founder's motives were? If PP is defended and closes, I guarantee you that we will see back ally coat hanger abortions skyrocket. It's a sad truth.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"One of the best sayings I have heard about abortion is if you are against them, then don't have one."

I hear that a lot. I think it's idiotic. How about if I say "if you're against arson, then don't light fires, but don't tell me I can't burn down a building". That's what laws are foe. Most people would never do terrible things, but we still need laws.

"Our constitutional rights guarantee us personal liberties "

True. You show me where the Constitution mentions the word "abortion", and I will agree that it's a constitutional right. What the constitution does guarantee is the right to free exercise of religion. Tell that to the Christian bakers getting persecuted by our POTUS Weird Harold.

"If PP is defended and closes, I guarantee you that we will see back ally coat hanger abortions skyrocket. It's a sad truth" We don't make evil things legal just to save those who participate. People get killed robbing banks, that's a sad truth. Is that an argument to legalize bank robbery?

"is going to lead a life as a vegetable. I say go for it. "

What if someday, someone decides that you have no value?

[Nebe]

😊
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[Nebe]

When Clinton lied, no one died
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

When Clinton lied, no one died
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No?

I assume you are referring to Bush, who was wrong, but didn't lie. But never mind about that. If Bush lied, so did Hilary, because she was positive that Saddam had WMDs, and used that as justification for her vote to invade Iraq. She voted to invade because of the threat of WMDs in Iraq. So if Bush lied, and if you say his lies caused deaths, how can you possibly not make the same charge against then-Senator Hilary Clinton?

I did agree with what you said about abortions following rape, that is a lot different than choosing an abortion because one doesn't want to deal with the significant, yet natural and usually safe, ramifications of being pregnant. It's abortions that are done purely for convenience, that most on my side are opposed to.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Nebe

When Clinton lied, no one died
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So it's OK to lie as long as no one get's killed now??
Is that what we have come to as a country?
Lying is altering truth and reality and therefore nothing real gets done.
Karma.

[ecduzitgood]

What does it matter?
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[Nebe]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

What does it matter?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It doesn't. We all line to have meaningless debates. Seriously.
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[Sea Dangles]

Once again,this thread is exhibit A that Jim is American Taliban or the latest incarnation thereof.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Once again,this thread is exhibit A that Jim is American Taliban or the latest incarnation thereof.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Based on what, exactly? Because I'm anti-abortion?

The Taliban think it's OK to slaughter innocent people for their own benefit.

Which side in the abortion debate most resembles the Taliban? Well, the vast majority of abortions are selected by healthy women who freely chose to have consensual sex. They choose to slaughter their unborn (in all of nature, you cannot find a more perfect example of innocence than an unborn child) for their own convenience. I am opposed to that slaughter.

I can therefore make a very compelling case, that rabidly pro-abortion folks, are the ones behaving barbaric like the Taliban.

Have fun figuring out a way to make that wrong.