Herd immunity is not a strategy, it is a biological fact

[Got Stripers]

Hey guess what everyone has been saying for a long time earlier action by governments, mask Wearing being essential, social distancing and limiting the size of gatherings would have saved lives. Basically everything Trump has refused to do all along.

[Pete F.]

The World Health Organization’s special envoy on COVID-19 Dr. David Nabarro in an interview stated lockdowns are not helpful as the primary means to control COVID-19. He advocated a middle path which means holding the virus at bay whilst keeping economy and social life going. It would require "high level of organization by governments and remarkable degree of engagement of people" with robust infectious disease control services or public health. He emphasized combining of several measures such as "physical distancing , face protection, hygiene, isolating the ill and protecting the vulnerable" as an effective method.

And then you have Covita's rally in a state with a remarkable disengagement of people and a a positivity rate that's 14% higher than 2 weeks ago, so if you don't do a, b, c, d and e you might end up needing to do a lockdown.

But he's immune

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Hey guess what everyone has been saying for a long time earlier action by governments, mask Wearing being essential, social distancing and limiting the size of gatherings would have saved lives. Basically everything a Trump has refused to do all along.

Trump has worn masks in certain situations. He has social distanced in certain situations. He has no authority to make people do it. That is a state responsibility. And he certainly hasn't said that we shouldn't follow mask and distancing guidelines,

When asked whether he would wear a mask, Trump told Fox Business in a White House interview, "Oh, I would. I have. I mean people have seen me wearing one. If I'm in a group of people where we're not 10 feet away -- but usually I'm not in that position and everyone's tested."

Under interstate commerce power:
July 3 (UPI) -- The Trump administration has issued guidance to airports and airlines to mandate the use of face coverings at all times as well as employ social distancing measures and minimize in-person interactions to prevent further spread of the coronavirus.

And Trump was right to call for a loosening up of lockdowns and freeing up the economy--which he was criticized for.

[Pete F.]

Covita in July: "We have one of the lowest, maybe the lowest, mortality rate anywhere in the world

New study: "The proportion of Americans dying from coronavirus infections is the highest in the developed world"

Quite a way to make America great again

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The World Health Organization’s special envoy on COVID-19 Dr. David Nabarro in an interview stated lockdowns are not helpful as the primary means to control COVID-19. He advocated a middle path which means holding the virus at bay whilst keeping economy and social life going. It would require "high level of organization by governments and remarkable degree of engagement of people" with robust infectious disease control services or public health. He emphasized combining of several measures such as "physical distancing , face protection, hygiene, isolating the ill and protecting the vulnerable" as an effective method.

And then you have Covita's rally in a state with a remarkable disengagement of people and a a positivity rate that's 14% higher than 2 weeks ago, so if you don't do a, b, c, d and e you might end up needing to do a lockdown.

But he's immune

Oh, so now you don't think I found an incorrect solution?

And it is highly hypocritical to praise large outdoor "protests" in which there is no social distancing and many are not wearing masks, and to allow large indoor various studio audiences such as Progressive SNL shows where there is no social distancing or many without face masks.

Trump's rallies are outdoors. And there are some mask wearers. What's good for the goose is apparently not necessarily, for you, good for the gander.

And BTW, I wish he would ask all those coming to his rallies to wear masks. As the speaker, he would have to remove a mask. And it is outdoors, and he is several feet removed from the audience. But he leaves it up to them, as is their constitutional right. If they are breaking a state mandate, then the state should prosecute them.

And he was right to push for opening up the society and economy.

And I am optimistic that his warp speed agenda will soon produce the medical mitigations to help us reach an eventual herd immunity. And I like his economic agenda way better than the economy choking Dem agenda. And I like what he has done with foreign economic treaties. And that he has not got us into a bunch of stupid never ending wars.

Overall, for me, especially considering the fate of our Republic and its Constitution and our unalienable rights if the Progressive agenda is not checked, a Republican electoral victory is the better choice, by far.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

And I am optimistic that his warp speed agenda will soon produce the medical mitigations to help us reach an eventual herd immunity.

[Pete F.]

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Covita in July: "We have one of the lowest, maybe the lowest, mortality rate anywhere in the world

New study: "The proportion of Americans dying from coronavirus infections is the highest in the developed world"

Quite a way to make America great again

So you use a July quote, nice. It's a worldwide pandemic and it is resurging just about everywhere,

Oct. 11 (UPI) -- "Nations are reporting record daily coronavirus cases, mainly in Europe after largely controlling the pandemic, with the world adding around 1 million new infections every three days.

On Saturday, a total of 355,909 new cases were reported worldwide, slightly less than the record 358,354 the day before and the fourth day in a row with more than 300,000. One-third of those new cases were in Europe.

On Sunday, Europe added 88,488 cases with 242,197 globally so far Sunday."

And when you take the economic and health factors (including long term) caused by the lockdowns, the U.S. does not compare badly as the purely covid count stats suggest. We'll get over this and be better off in the long run than most others--if we keep the Trump economic policies in place and don't revert to the Progressive tax and regulation policies and don't go back to self-destructive trade policies.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

So you use a July quote, nice. It's a worldwide pandemic and it is resurging just about everywhere,

Oct. 11 (UPI) -- "Nations are reporting record daily coronavirus cases, mainly in Europe after largely controlling the pandemic, with the world adding around 1 million new infections every three days.

On Saturday, a total of 355,909 new cases were reported worldwide, slightly less than the record 358,354 the day before and the fourth day in a row with more than 300,000. One-third of those new cases were in Europe.

On Sunday, Europe added 88,488 cases with 242,197 globally so far Sunday."

And when you take the economic and health factors (including long term) caused by the lockdowns, the U.S. does not compare badly as the purely covid count stats suggest. We'll get over this and be better off in the long run than most others--if we keep the Trump economic policies in place and don't revert to the Progressive tax and regulation policies and don't go back to self-destructive trade policies.

Your quote has nothing to do with what I posted about deaths, demonstrating just as much empathy as Covita

New study: "The proportion of Americans dying from coronavirus infections is the highest in the developed world"

And don't worry with Covita's rallies in the most virulent parts of the US, he will make sure we are #1

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Your quote has nothing to do with what I posted about deaths, demonstrating just as much empathy as Covita

New study: "The proportion of Americans dying from coronavirus infections is the highest in the developed world"

And don't worry with Covita's rallies in the most virulent parts of the US, he will make sure we are #1

My post was putting your post in a less pessimistic perspective. You want to point out every selective negative data you can get your brain on.

Here's this dose of optimism from the NYT's Science and Health Reporter:

A reporter for The New York Times wrote Monday he was surprised to find America’s recovery from the coronavirus pandemic appears to be unfolding faster than experts initially anticipated.


In “A Dose of Optimism, as the Pandemic Rages On,” science and health reporter Donald G. McNeil Jr. argued the coronavirus death toll in the U.S., standing at around 250,000, is far below the initial 2.2 million Americans initially projected to die by mid-October.

“Since January, when I began covering the pandemic, I have been a consistently gloomy Cassandra, reporting on the catastrophe that experts saw coming: that the virus would go pandemic, that Americans were likely to die in large numbers, the national lockdown would last well beyond Easter and even past summer. No miracle cure was on the horizon; the record for developing a vaccine was four years,” McNeil wrote. “Events have moved faster than I thought possible. I have become cautiously optimistic. Experts are saying, with genuine confidence, that the pandemic in the United States will be over far sooner than they expected, possibly by the middle of next year.”

Citing a March 16 White House press briefing on the virus, McNeil recalled President Trump and the White House Coronavirus Task Force presenting their “15 Days to Slow the Spread” recommendations. They showed a chart from London’s Imperial College, which used a “sinuous blue line” to demonstrate what Dr. Deborah Birx called a “the blue mountain of deaths.”

McNeil argued the coronavirus death toll in the U.S. did not reach the 2.2 million marker because Americans’ behavior and attitudes toward combatting the virus largely evolved over the past few months, as more people accept social distancing measures as the norm. More people also have accepted the practice of wearing masks, especially since President Trump contracted the virus.

“In the day-to-day fights over reopening schools or bars, it is easy to forget that there was a time when the idea of canceling large public gatherings — the St. Patrick’s Day Parade, the N.C.A.A.’s March Madness basketball tournament — did not seem remotely necessary,” McNeil wrote. “That there was a time when leading health officials said that only sick people and hospital workers needed to wear masks.”

TRUMP GETTING SUPPORT FROM THOSE MOST AFFECTED BY 'ASYMMETRICAL' COVID LOCKDOWNS: HANSON


Pharmaceutical treatments for the disease have expanded, as antiviral drug remdesivir and steroids such as dexamethasone have proven effective in treating the virus, and those hospitalized are less likely to die from the disease.

Still, McNeil pointed out that infection rates were spiking in some states, and experts have been racing to develop vaccines and monoclonal antibodies – dubbed the medical “cavalry” to defeat the virus once and for all. Recent projections by Dr. Anthony Fauci estimated some 400,000 Americans could die from the coronavirus before the pandemic is anticipated to end by mid-2021.

To avoid the pandemic from relapsing, he urged Americans to follow Fauci’s advice to “hunker down.”

He also wrote that vaccine skepticism must fade, and that Congress must act to make the vaccine available around the world, as well as helping Americans recover economically from the virus.


I'm not sure what more "hunkering down" we need to do. No doubt you want Trump to stop his rallies. As you like to say--we'll see.

[detbuch]

From an NBC news article Oct. 8 2020 regarding masks at Trump's campaign rallies:

"'We take strong precautions for campaign events. Every attendee has their temperature checked, masks are provided and their use is encouraged, and there is plenty of hand sanitizer' said Courtney Parella, a spokesperson for the Trump campaign, when asked about what safety measures were being taken in light of the recent Covid-19 outbreak among White House and campaign aides."

I watched a bit of his rally in Pennsylvania today. Everyone in the grandstand behind him that fit into the camera frame had a mask on. Although masks are provided they are not required, and I didn't see any pictures of the huge crowd in front of and below his podium, so I don't know how many of them were wearing masks.

[Pete F.]

There’s a billboard in Des Moines announcing Covita’s
COVID Superspreader Event
They’ll remember where they got it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

There’s a billboard in Des Moines announcing Covita’s
COVID Superspreader Event
They’ll remember where they got it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

They've probably never heard of Covita.

[Pete F.]

Trump is about to hold a pandemic rally with no social distancing and very few masks in Des Moines, Iowa.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

I think they are referring to it as a Protest, so corona virus has no power there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I think they are referring to it as a Protest, so corona virus has no power there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That’s the fifth inalienable right Trumps Supreme Court pick couldn’t remember when asked to name all five.

[Pete F.]

Trump’s strategy of ignoring the pandemic so that cases surge in battleground states in late October seems to be working out.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Trump’s strategy of ignoring the pandemic so that cases surge in battleground states in late October seems to be working out.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This is either a truly idiotic comment, or clever propagandistic mixture of words.

[scottw]

there are apparently lot's of American republicans running around europe refusing to wear masks

[Pete F.]

Trump: "Fauci is a disaster. If I listened to him, we’d have 500,000 deaths," before later saying it would be 700,000 or 800,000. "If there’s a reporter on, you can have it just the way I said it, I couldn’t care less." (CNN was given access to the call by a source.)

TRUMP vs DR FAUCI:
- politics vs science
- charlatan vs expert
- re-election vs public safety
- votes vs saving lives
- rhetoric vs empirical data
- spin narrative vs transparency
- manipulation vs proofing
- sole decision vs peer review
- reactive vs proactive
- hunch vs facts
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Trump: "Fauci is a disaster. If I listened to him, we’d have 500,000 deaths," before later saying it would be 700,000 or 800,000. "If there’s a reporter on, you can have it just the way I said it, I couldn’t care less." (CNN was given access to the call by a source.)

TRUMP vs DR FAUCI:
- politics vs science
- charlatan vs expert
- re-election vs public safety
- votes vs saving lives
- rhetoric vs empirical data
- spin narrative vs transparency
- manipulation vs proofing
- sole decision vs peer review
- reactive vs proactive
- hunch vs facts

There's no "scientific" proof that Trump is wrong--unless your doing a hunch vs possibility.

[Pete F.]

I’m old enough to remember Trump saying it would disappear like a miracle.

We’re making Trump disappear at the polls. Trump is a disaster and it’s time to stop the bleeding and the deaths.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I’m old enough to remember Trump saying it would disappear like a miracle.

We’re making Trump disappear at the polls. Trump is a disaster and it’s time to stop the bleeding and the deaths.

Trump and Biden, as well as all the other biased pols have said a lot of lying BS. Your selective memory is meaningless other than some political talking point. And Trump losing won't "like a miracle" stop the bleeding and the deaths. It'll stop, as if by magic, the leftist media from making a bogus issue about it, and, as if by magic, their current complaints and accusations will turn to praise of what a wonderful job Biden is doing to defeat the virus. Even though all the ground work for defeating it has already been laid, and Biden won't be doing much different. It's like when Biden magically gave Obama credit for what looked like a successful democratic revolution in Iraq . . . after blaming Bush for actually making it possible.

In my opinion, what would be a disaster is if the Dems revert to bringing back their old taxes and regulations and creating another historically low recovery and a return of their beloved stagnant "new normal." Not to mention re-invigorating their Progressive incremental destruction of the Constitution.

But Trump will be gone. So all will be well. As well as the slow disintegration of the American Republic with its outdated reverence for quaint notions of liberty and individual rights will allow. An older generation of "liberals" warned us of this brave new world that is coming. The current Progressives want the opportunity to make their version of it happen.

[Pete F.]

Good thing it’s just:
The Insane Pumpkin's Super Spreader Farewell Tour.

Starring Agolf Twitler!

Cause COVID is nothing, tough guys like Covita get through it like nothing, of course with treatments not available to others.

But the media, who the rightwing has claimed for years are all against them, except Fox and even they are suspect are making an epidemic out of something that’s no worse than the flu.....

220K dead
New cases up 30% in the last 14 days
Great job, Covita
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Good thing it’s just:
The Insane Pumpkin's Super Spreader Farewell Tour.

Starring Agolf Twitler!

Cause COVID is nothing, tough guys like Covita get through it like nothing, of course with treatments not available to others.

But the media, who the rightwing has claimed for years are all against them, except Fox and even they are suspect are making an epidemic out of something that’s no worse than the flu.....

220K dead
New cases up 30% in the last 14 days
Great job, Covita

You do realize that covid is being handled by the states, as it has been for several months, and is the constitutional way. Trump is not in charge of it. Nor should he be.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

You do realize that covid is being handled by the states, as it has been for several months, and is the constitutional way. Trump is not in charge of it. Nor should he be.

Right he has put an MRI doctor in charge of the Covid team, which probably explains your herd immunity posts and now his tweet stating masks don’t work was thankfully taken down by Twitter. His statements on Dr. Fauci clearly tell you where his head is at, basically up his own arse.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Right he has put an MRI doctor in charge of the Covid team, which probably explains your herd immunity posts and now his tweet stating masks don’t work was thankfully taken down by Twitter. His statements on Dr. Fauci clearly tell you where his head is at, basically up his own arse.

I don't have a hard and sure opinion on any of the "science" behind covid. I have seen and heard conflicting evidence. Also, their is a lot more to consider in fighting the pandemic than just focusing on killing and containing the virus. There is the total effect not just of the virus itself but the consequence of things likes the lockdown. There is solid evidence that the lockdown also causes different kinds of death, physical and mental health breakdowns, economic disaster, and long time impact of all those things.

Atlas is an advisor among others who have their various expertise. Mr. Atlas is a data wonk. His input should be a balancing of our response to best mitigate all the negatives. You won't watch it, and you claim that you won't read any of this, but for those who might want a wider more objective view of Atlas and his input, this video should help to temper or reject the biased, frankly political smear of him:

[Pete F.]

Most Americans think there should be a federally coordinated response, because just like interstate commerce the virus is not required to pay attention to state laws
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

And as a sure indicator of his expertise, he echoes Covita’s rhetoric
Gotta be good
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

And as a sure indicator of his expertise, he echoes Covita’s rhetoric
Gotta be good
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Either you didn't watch the video, or your a bit dense, or you will dismiss, mock, suppress and destroy anything that weakens your narrative rather than debating it or even discussing it.