Just curious, would any of you vote for Santorum

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

you are pretty funny...here's the best attempt at a positive article that I can find...of course sales are so strong that they are scaling back production and laying of 1300

You might try my link It is based on 28 reviews and test drives. You can also see the other "crappy cars" it is compared to on this link from the same site.
Best Upscale Midsize Cars Rankings | U.S. News Best Cars

By the way, a pile of pintos sold back in the day. we had two growing up. They weren't such great cars, but sold like crazy. Funny thing is they might explode if hit in the right spot. On a related note, the Volt battery was found to cause no more chance of fire than in any other combustible engine with a battery. Not sure the most accurate way to judge the quality of a car is based on first year sales or to disregard it because it had kinks during the first year..

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You might try my link It is based on 28 reviews and test drives. You can also see the other "crappy cars" it is compared to on this link from the same site.
Best Upscale Midsize Cars Rankings | U.S. News Best Cars

.

I never said it was a crappy car....but noone is buying it even with Obama throwing money at them to try to get them to buy it

there's a lesson there

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

I never said it was a crappy car....but noone is buying it even with Obama throwing money at them to try to get them to buy it

there's a lesson there

I didn't mean for it to imply you said that. It was said in the initial post about the Volt. My instinct is Chevy made an enormous blunder in the fact that it only seats four. It is the only reason I wouldn't buy one and I am sure it is a problem for almost anyone with kids. Honda Element is finished and it had the same problem.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I didn't mean for it to imply you said that. It was said in the initial post about the Volt. My instinct is Chevy made an enormous blunder in the fact that it only seats four. It is the only reason I wouldn't buy one and I am sure it is a problem for almost anyone with kids. Honda Element is finished and it had the same problem.

you could always tie one to the roof...wait...that didn't work out so well for....


this sums it up nicely.....

"At the same time, GM has boosted the appeal of its gasoline-engine compact cars. Its 2012 Chevrolet Cruze, for instance, gets up to 42 miles on a gallon of gasoline in some versions, yet costs about half the price of a Volt.

Jack Domaldson of Davis, Calif., said he and his wife considered buying a Volt but found it impractical and bought a Toyota Prius instead. Why did the Volt lack appeal? "Short range, expensive, no infrastructure support, and the element of uncertainty with performance," he said.

Word of the production halt comes only days after President Barack Obama praised the car in a recent campaign speech in Washington, D.C., saying he planned to buy one "in five years when I'm out of office." might be the funniest thing he's ever said

GM's move signals, "consumer demand is just not that strong for these vehicles," said Lacey Plache, chief economist for auto-research firm Edmunds.com. "The price premium on the Volt just doesn't make economic sense for the average consumer when there are so many fuel-efficient gasoline-powered cars available, typically for thousands of dollars less."


GM appears to take the Obama approach to sales numbers as well, they pad the sales with fleet sales numbers apparently,

General Motors reported Chevy Volt sales of 1,529 for the month of December. The still unimpressive number is an improvement over previous months, but the gains were mostly driven by fleet sales. According to GM, 992 of the Volts sold were to retail customers while 537 went to fleet purchasers.

GM says the fleet sales were to corporate buyers and not to rental companies. The number of Volts sold to townships receiving federal grants remains unknown. The corporate sales claim makes sense as crony company, General Electric, starts to make good on its promise to buy thousands of Volts. Of course, GE benefits by selling charging stations for the vehicles.

Another interesting statistic on Volt sales can be derived from the inventory figures and number of Chevy dealerships with available Volts. GM now claims that 2,600 dealerships across the nation have Volts for sale. Given the 992 figure for Volts sold to retail customers, we come up with an average of approximately one third of a vehicle sold by each dealership per month. It is ludicrous for GM to continue to tout Volt sales figures as a success given the fact that about two thirds of dealerships offering Volts were unable to sell even one during the month.

and in Dec they touted a big month but I noticed often referred to "vehicals shipped", I imagine to boost their year end sales number over some imaginary acceptable mark (7000/7500)...in subsequent months they refer to vehicals sold....there are a number of stories that dealers were refusing January deliveries of the Volt because they didn't want them, For example, "according to Automotive News, GM set aside 104 Volt models for 14 dealerships across the greater New York City market. Of those vehicles, dealers took just 31. The problem isn't just out East, either. The report claims one California dealer turned down all six Volt models allocated to him despite the fact that his franchise sold 10 of the vehicles last year."

probably had too many leftover from those December deliveries, you'd think they'd need them after a "record month" in December???...I guess we'll get a "revision" at some point..............


sales will probably really improve after the US taxpayers stop subsidizing them to the tune of 7500 bucks...right??? better keep an eye on that GM stock price as well...BIG year for that

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ss-taxpayers/1
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ares-cars.html

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by zimmy

...the Volt battery was found to cause no more chance of fire than in any other combustible engine with a battery.

In case anybody missed this buried way back a few posts on this page.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

In case anybody missed this buried way back a few posts on this page.

right, like the Pinto....

In a 1991 paper, The Myth of the Ford Pinto Case, for the Rutgers Law Review, Gary T. Schwartz[6] said the case against the Pinto was not clear-cut.[22][23]

According to his study, the number who died in Pinto rear-impact fires was well below the hundreds cited in contemporary news reports and closer to the 27 recorded by a limited National Highway Traffic Safety Administration database. Given the Pinto's production figures (over 2 million built), this was not substantially worse than typical for the time. Schwartz said that the car was no more fire-prone than other cars of the time, that its fatality rates were lower than comparably sized imported automobiles, and that the supposed "smoking gun" document that plaintiffs said demonstrated Ford's callousness in designing the Pinto was actually a document based on National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regulations about the value of a human life — rather than a document containing an assessment of Ford's potential tort liability.

sort of....

of course the Pinto wasn't staggeringly overpriced......


also, GM has it's profits shielded from US tax laws for up to 20 years....

according to documents filed with federal regulators, the revamping left the car maker with another boost as it prepares to return to the stock market. It won't have to pay $45.4 billion in taxes on future profits.

The tax benefit stems from so-called tax-loss carry-forwards and other provisions, which allow companies to use losses in prior years and costs related to pensions and other expenses to shield profits from U.S. taxes for up to 20 years. In GM's case, the losses stem from years prior to when GM entered bankruptcy.


the still have unfunded pension liabilities of over 12 Billion dollars

According to a report by the Government Accountability Office, GM will need to add $12.3 billion into its pension fund by 2014. To make matters worse, if GM terminates their pensions, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation – funded by taxpayers - would then become responsible for as much as $14.5 billion in unfunded liabilities.

got a waiver from Obamacare mandates AND MORE

The Obama Administration continues to find ways to funnel taxpayer funds to General Motors and the UAW. A hidden bailout was recently uncovered buried within the Obamacare bill. This latest giveaway goes by the name of "Early Retiree Reinsurance Program" or ERRP for short. Washingtonexaminer.com reported last week that the program was discovered by investigators for the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

ERRP's price tag to taxpayers is $5 billion. The goal of the program is to provide subsidies to unions, states (for public employees) and corporations for health care coverage for retirees aged between 55 and 64. To date, over $2 billion has been given away. And who's the biggest recipient? The UAW cashes in at number one receiving about $207 million of political payback. That was more than the states of New York, California and Texas, combined, received. Bailed out GM also gets a piece of the pie, having received more than $19 million from the program. GM currently benefits from having transferred health care liability to the UAW in a Voluntary Employees' Beneficiary Association (VEBA) agreement from 2007. Funding for this same VEBA account came from taxpayers and GM bondholders who sacrificed in order to benefit the UAW in the GM bankruptcy process.

they have their product subsidized with taxpayer money to the tune of $7500....nope..... noooooooooo.....
wait for it...............

Obama Budget to Subsidize $10-K For Each Electric Car Sold
By Eric Scheiner
February 17, 2012

President Barack Obama wants to use more taxpayer funds to encourage the purchase of green vehicles.

The government currently offers up to a $7,500 tax credit for those that purchase natural gas or electric vehicles, but the president’s latest budget proposal wants to increase the amount to $10,000 and allow for consumers to receive the tax incentive at the dealership when they purchase a qualifying vehicle.





and the government will sell off their shares of GM stock sometime in the near future leaving the US taxpayers with a loss in the billions...likely more than 10 Billion

also:
The new “big success” automaker is spending millions hiring lobbyists to squeeze more millions out of state legislatures. As Justin Owen notes, GM has “turned to another, smaller government teat” by putting its hand out to the states. GM, Owen says, “has received another $1.7 billion in taxpayer-funded grants and tax abatements.”




but Obama will tell you that this is an American success story and he's happy to claim credit...

The Washington Post’s Fact Checker: “Virtually Every Claim By The President Regarding The Auto Industry Needs An Asterisk, Just Like The Fine Print In That Too-Good-To-Be-True Car Loan.” (Glenn Kessler, “President Obama’s Phony Accounting On The Auto Industry Bailout,” The Washington Post’s Fact Checker, 6/7/11)

The Washington Post’s Fact Checker Gave President Obama’s Claims On The Chrysler Bailout THREE Pinocchios. (Glenn Kessler, “President Obama’s Phony Accounting On The Auto Industry Bailout,” The Washington Post’s Fact Checker, 6/7/11)

FactCheck.org: The President Is “Sounding Very Much Like A Used Car Salesman” When He Describes The Success Of The Auto Bailouts. “Notice the president — sounding very much like a used-car salesman — used the phrases ‘during my watch’ and ‘under my watch’ when describing the TARP loans as being ‘completely repaid.’” (Eugene Kelly, “Chrysler Paid In Full?” FactCheck.org, 6/6/11)

FactCheck.org: “Read The Fine Print” The Obama Administration Is Not Getting Back $1.3 Billion It Gave To Chrysler.