crickets...

[Sea Dangles]

Who compiled that list?
Illinois is below average while Alaska and Montana are double the average, something seems fishy.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Who compiled that list?
Illinois is below average while Alaska and Montana are double the average, something seems fishy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That's because its firearm deaths. Suicides and accidental are included.

[Sea Dangles]

DB, the chart alleges per 100,000
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

DB, the chart alleges per 100,000
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It was not specified in the post, but I did calculate the numbers on that basis. I edited the post to specify that. I did not note in the post how I arrived at the numbers. I actually considered the populations of NY and Alaska and used those in figuring out the per 100,000 stats.

[PaulS]

https://www.chicagocriminallawyerblo...m-chicago.html


September 26, 2017

Where Do All The Illegal Guns In Chicago Come From?

by James G. Dimeas, Esq.


The gun violence in Chicago has been a great source of concern among the citizens and politicians in Illinois for a long time. Every day we are inundated with news of shootings and homicides throughout the City. When the weather heats up we know that the number of shootings will go up. On Monday morning we open the paper to find out how many people were shot and how many were killed over the weekend. In the effort to come up with a way to stop all the shootings, we need to understand how illegal guns are making their way to the streets of Chicago. Illinois has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the United States. To own a gun in your home, Illinois requires that you get a Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) Card which requires that a thorough background search be conducted by the Illinois State Police. FOID cards can be revoked for good cause by the Illinois State Police. Citizens are generally not allowed to carry a gun outside their home unless they have an FOID Card and are legally transporting it, or they obtain a Conceal and Carry Permit. To obtain a Conceal and Carry Permit you have to apply to the Illinois State Police, submit to a thorough background search and supply your fingerprints, and attend and complete gun training classes. Illinois was the last state to allow conceal and carry, and that was only after the Federal Courts ordered Illinois to do this.

In spite of some of the nation’s strictest gun laws, Chicago has established a reputation as America’s deadliest city. Chicago Police report that in 2015, over 2,900 people were shot and 470 people were murdered. In 2016, there were 762 homicides, 3,550 shooting incidents and 4,331 shooting victims. 2016 was the deadliest year in Chicago in 20 years. Chicago recently saw it’s 500th murder of 2017. These statistics, coupled with the strict Illinois gun laws, have become an example cited by gun rights activists to argue that gun control legislation doesn’t work. But a closer look at some of the evidence concerning where these guns are coming from tells us a different story.

According to the FBI, roughly 60% of guns used in crimes in Illinois were from out of state. The overwhelming number of those guns flow into Illinois from states that have much less restrictive gun laws. Most of those out of state guns came from Indiana, which is next to Illinois. Second place goes to Mississippi and third place goes to Wisconsin. The FBI data suggests that there’s lots of trafficking of guns within Illinois but point out that it’s very difficult to trace those guns once they get into the state because Illinois does not require registration of guns, does not license or regulate gun dealers, doesn’t limit how many guns can be sold at one time and does not require background searches on gun sales that are not conducted at a gun show. Indiana has really lax gun laws. Gun dealers are required to perform a very basic background search while a vendor can sell their “private collection” to anyone at a gun show without any background search whatsoever. So someone can buy an assault rifle at a Crown Point Indiana gun show without any background search, and drive an hour into Chicago, where assault rifles are banned. A 2015 study by the University of Chicago suggested that only 11% of guns involved in crimes in Chicago were purchased through federally licensed gun dealers, which require background searches. In 2014 the Chicago Police reported that roughly 60% of guns used and recovered from crime scenes between 2009 and 2013 were purchased outside of Illinois. Exact figures are hard to pin down but it is clear that the vast majority of guns making their way to the streets of Chicago are coming from outside of Illinois.

The significance of these figures is that unless national standards are imposed, there’s no law or amount of regulation in Illinois that is going to stop guns from making their way into Chicago and being used in shootings and murders. Instead of gun rights activists pointing to Illinois strict gun laws to argue that they don’t work, they should point to states that have lax gun laws as an example of why such stricter laws are needed to stop, or at least slow down, the rising numbers of shootings and murders in Chicago.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

This is where you have to decompose the issues. A suicide may be different than a mass murder suicide. Different weapons, different considerations.

People love to push the stats around, see, see most deaths are by handgun not assault weapon etc...this just kills the dialogue.

Do we want to reduce gun violence or just ignore it?

No, pointing out that most gun deaths or injuries are by handguns, does not kill the dialogue. It expands and clarifies the dialogue. The dialogue that you propose is strictly about AR types or large magazine capacity. It is that dialogue that deflects from and kills the larger dialogue of what to do about gun violence. It is that larger dialogue which has gone on for a long time but has been compressed to the AR dialogue because AR types create a greater (unwarranted) emotional impact. Emotionally driven dialogue is more effective in achieving the desired outcome of the overall "problem" of gun violence than is the mere recitation of statistical numbers.

The current mantra, which you and others have repeated over and over, is that "no one" wants to take away hand guns. Just the scary ones. Look how much the scary ones can kill at one time!

Logically speaking, hand guns, re the gun violence problem, are the bigger problem. Emotionally speaking, the scarier types are a more effective way of riling up enough of the population to persuade lawmakers to "do something."

But the descending order of types of guns needed to be gotten rid of in order to solve the overall problem goes something like: OK, we took care of the fully automatics, now lets take it one notch lower on the scary scale and get rid of the semi automatic, then, because the overall problem will remain virtually the same after we get that done, we can get back to dealing with those nasty but bigger problem, the hand guns.

[The Dad Fisherman]

From that article I posted above.

"People killed in mass shootings make up less than half of 1 percent of the people shot to death in the United States. More than half of gun deaths every year are suicides. In 2015, more than 12,000 people have been killed by guns, according to the Gun Violence Archive."

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

From that article I posted above.

"People killed in mass shootings make up less than half of 1 percent of the people shot to death in the United States. More than half of gun deaths every year are suicides. In 2015, more than 12,000 people have been killed by guns, according to the Gun Violence Archive."

I think you're perhaps missing the really obvious, completely apparent and totally significant point...

While suicide is tragic, it doesn't make the masses look over their shoulders wondering if and when they're going to be involved in the next atrocity.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I think you're perhaps missing the really obvious, completely apparent and totally significant point...

While suicide is tragic, it doesn't make the masses look over their shoulders wondering if and when they're going to be involved in the next atrocity.

I remember a few years back when gun control advocates where more open about further regulations on hand guns even to the point of banning them in whole cities or states, and at the time suicide was named as one of the important reasons for the ban. Back then, we were supposed to be horrified by the number of suicides, and the greater ease of doing so, by handguns.

Now since that notion seems to have died out, we must still find emotional reactions based on horror to keep the public pressure up against gun ownership. NO, no, we won't ban hand guns, just the scary ones.

And if you subtract the number of suicides by gun from the total number of gun deaths, the number deaths by hand gun still dwarf the number by AR types.

[Got Stripers]

Handguns are likely never going to be banned, nor do I think they need to be, but the laws in states making it easy to pick them up and bring them to chicago or NYC where individuals can't meet muster need to be tightened up.

Health care ties into all of this, because the suicide rates could come down if the proper care was available and the drug issue goes hand in hand as well.

The assault rifle discussion is logical, as it's the only likely ban that could even be considered; although I'm guessing the lobbying power of the NRA will make even that a long shot.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Handguns are likely never going to be banned, nor do I think they need to be, but the laws in states making it easy to pick them up and bring them to chicago or NYC where individuals can't meet muster need to be tightened up.

The only way that can be tightened up is to ban handguns in every state. Still would leave smuggling from other countries.

Health care ties into all of this, because the suicide rates could come down if the proper care was available and the drug issue goes hand in hand as well.

Those issues are their own, and controlling guns does not heal mental health or stop drug abuse.

The assault rifle discussion is logical, as it's the only likely ban that could even be considered; although I'm guessing the lobbying power of the NRA will make even that a long shot.

As I said, the AR type with its more potent emotional reaction is the next logical step down from fully automatic to semi-automatic. After that is accomplished, and the number of gun deaths is barely reduced, what's next?

[ReelinRod]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

the laws in states making it easy to pick them up and bring them to chicago or NYC where individuals can't meet muster need to be tightened up.

Are you under the impression that running guns is legal?

The laws are there, multiple purchase forms are sent to ATF which then sends them to local law enforcement for follow-up.

Except in leftist hell-holes like Philly where the city told the ATF to stop sending the reports because they didn''t do anything with them and the costs of mandated destruction were too high.

[ReelinRod]

Originally Posted by detbuch

the number deaths by hand gun still dwarf the number by AR types.

The FBI doesn't break out "assault weapons" from the overall rifle category but ALL rifles represent 1.87% of all murder weapons and 2.62% of gun homicide weapons.

Knives, blunt objects and Hands and feet are each used to kill more people than ALL rifles:



(Screengrab from https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s..._2011-2015.xls

[PaulS]

And on another note, Pres. Trump tweeted about the wrong massacre.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And on another note, Pres. Trump tweeted about the wrong massacre.

Thoughtfulness is not a strength of his.

He had a great moment on Veterans Day, actually hugging a former SEAL from the Vietnam War who broke down addressing the media. And he apparently helped out the idiotic UCLA basketball players who got caught shoplifting in China. Not exactly what Hitler would have done.

Referring to the wrong massacre, is like Obama saying there are 57 states. When everything you say is recorded, you will put your foot in your mouth. Trump will do it more often than Obama, though.

[zimmy]

He tweeted it. Doesn't get the same level of leniency as a person who misspeaks in an interview. The president needs to double check and edit before addressing something so serious in writing. Looking forward to President Biden's more trivial gaffs in three years.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

He tweeted it. Doesn't get the same level of leniency as a person who misspeaks in an interview. The president needs to double check and edit before addressing something so serious in writing.
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yeah...well...send him a letter and let him know how you feel

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Looking forward to President Biden's more trivial gaffs in three years.

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not so fast...Google "Biden Groper"