is it impeachable to ask ukraine to investigate political adversaries?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Telling someone you don’t want to discuss a possible policy till after you are elected is the same as telling someone who you are withholding aid from to “do me a favor” and look into Biden etc. We will have a great relationship yada yada

The difference is the latter is indictable.
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both men asked foreign governments to take policy action which would benefit them politically. is that true or false?

when george w bush got a coalition of nations to help us in Iraq, that helped him politically. should he have been impeached because he asked foreign governments do something, which had the benefit of helping him politically?

for every talking head who says it’s impeachable, there’s someone who says it isn’t. it’s not anything close to objective or factual.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Telling someone you don’t want to discuss a possible policy till after you are elected is the same as telling someone who you are withholding aid from to “do me a favor” and look into Biden etc. We will have a great relationship yada yada

The difference is the latter is indictable.
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Highlighted: The reason that is highlighted is due to how fast CNN twisting facts goes viral.

CNN on video uses the first part of the quote where Trump asks "to do a favor" and then CNN states that Trump is asking Zelensky to look into Biden. But the Transcript shows Trump asking Zelensky to look into Crowdstrike (which has its own issues) and the DNC server from 2016.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Highlighted: The reason that is highlighted is due to how fast CNN twisting facts goes viral.

CNN on video uses the first part of the quote where Trump asks "to do a favor" and then CNN states that Trump is asking Zelensky to look into Biden. But the Transcript shows Trump asking Zelensky to look into Crowdstrike (which has its own issues) and the DNC server from 2016.

John, I edited that to make it shorter, likely CNN did the same.

There is no "smoking gun" here, nor does there need to be.

There are three main issues that stand out regarding the Memo and Trump's behavior

1. The question of a possible quid pro quo.

Days before the call, Trump ordered his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to freeze a substantial package of military aid to Ukraine—a move that reportedly baffled and concerned officials in both the State and Defense Departments. Now consider how Trump sets the stage for his conversation with Zelensky by framing the U.S.-Ukrainian relationship in terms of reciprocity, suggesting that “the United States has been very good to Ukraine” but Ukraine may not have adequately reciprocated.

Thus when Zelensky comes in with his ask—for the president’s support for Ukrainian efforts to acquire defensive equipment from the United States—Trump is ready. He immediately pivots to an ask of his own, telling Zelensky that “I would like you to do us a favor though[.]”

But the favor in question is not a policy favor for the United States. It’s a political favor for Trump. This is where Trump raises the issue of Crowdstrike, asking Zelensky to “find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine.” Recall that the conspiracy theory regarding Crowdstrike involves casting doubt on whether Russia really hacked the DNC and, thus, on whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election at all. Trump appears to be asking for Zelensky’s help in amplifying this theory—which supports Trump’s understanding of the Mueller probe as a “Witch Hunt”—and finding evidence to support it. His request for a “favor”—immediately after Zelensky references a prospective purchase—is easily understood as the president’s connecting the U.S.’s provision of defensive equipment to Zelinsky’s willingness to assist Barr on a matter of personal concern to the president.

2. The clear evidence that the president solicited the Ukrainian president to deliver dirt on U.S. persons in a gross abuse of their civil liberties.

3. A clear attempt at soliciting foreign government intervention in a U.S. presidential campaign.

When Zelensky responds positively, stating that “all the investigations will be done openly and candidly,” Trump digs in further with another request: “[W]hatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great,” he says, pushing Zelensky to commit to investigating Hunter Biden and Joe Biden. He requests repeatedly that Zelensky speak to Giuliani, who at this time was publicly calling for the Ukrainians to investigate the Bidens.

To really understand the issues, a look at the timeline and the actors involved is needed. Lawfare did a timeline that looks to be complete.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/timeline...kraine-scandal

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

John, I edited that to make it shorter

[Got Stripers]

Hearing exurbs from the whistle blower complaint is really damning, you better circle those red wagons closer, this is going to be fun watching Trump and Rudy implode. I have no doubt the witch hunt and presidential harassment lines will be flying on the steps of the White House and in this board.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Hearing exurbs from the whistle blower complaint is really damning, you better circle those red wagons closer, this is going to be fun watching Trump and Rudy implode. I have no doubt the witch hunt and presidential harassment lines will be flying on the steps of the White House and in this board.
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Exurb
Enough is enough for Gods sake
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Exurb
Enough is enough for Gods sake
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I’ve told you many times I couldn’t care less to go hunt down glasses, are you having trouble understanding the meaning, you probably are the worst at crossword puzzles.

You do keep showing how small you are and that in and of itself is worth not hunting down the glasses.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I’ve told you many times I couldn’t care less to go hunt down glasses, are you having trouble understanding the meaning, you probably are the worst at crossword puzzles.

You do keep showing how small you are and that in and of itself is worth not hunting down the glasses.
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Crossword puzzles.... use those letters for jumble and see what you come up with.
Haha, you make a point using the “word” exurb! Priceless
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Crossword puzzles.... use those letters for jumble and see what you come up with.
Haha, you make a point using the “word” exurb! Priceless
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Maybe pictures will help you if you are slow in picking up a word meaning, you do know there are adult continuing education classes you can sign up for.
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[spence]

Read it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/conte...-77f2d4ee16aa/

BLISTERING

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Read it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/conte...-77f2d4ee16aa/

BLISTERING

which you’ve said how many times before, which turned out to be zip?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

which you’ve said how many times before, which turned out to be zip?
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Not zip

Rep. Will Hurd
@HurdOnTheHill
There is a lot in the whistleblower complaint that is concerning. We need to fully investigate all of the allegations addressed in the letter, and the first step is to talk to the whistleblower.
9:18 AM · Sep 26, 2019

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Not zip

Rep. Will Hurd
@HurdOnTheHill
There is a lot in the whistleblower complaint that is concerning. We need to fully investigate all of the allegations addressed in the letter, and the first step is to talk to the whistleblower.
9:18 AM · Sep 26, 2019

i agree it’s concerning. the remedy is the next election, not undoing the last one.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i agree it’s concerning. the remedy is the next election, not undoing the last one.
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The idea that we should "let the voters decide" on Trump in 2020 is nonsense.

The public doesn't vote on whether people have committed crimes against the nation.

Though this presidency does look like a reality show it isn't an episode of "America's Got Treason".

[Jim in CT]

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[Nebe]

This raised my eyebrows. I copied this from a wall street journal article from this morning. -


The whistleblower complaint alleges that there was an effort within the White House in the days following the July 25 call with Mr. Zelensky to “lock down” all records related to it, “especially the word-for-word transcript of the call that was produced” by the White House Situation Room. White House officials told the complainant they had been “directed” by White House lawyers to remove the electronic transcript from the computer system that stores those transcripts and allows for distribution to Cabinet-level officials, the report staid.
“This set of actions underscored to me that White House officials understood the gravity of what had transpired in the call,” the complaint said.
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[Jim in CT]

so doing an investigation when there’s obvious evidence of Biden nepotism, is nothing more than getting dirt.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

so doing an investigation when there’s obvious evidence of Biden nepotism, is nothing more than getting dirt.
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There is no obvious evidence, in fact there is no evidence.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

There is no obvious evidence, in fact there is no evidence.
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not when you refuse to look at it.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

not when you refuse to look at it.
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Can't look at what's not there. Trump and Rudy spouting conspiracy theories isn't evidence.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

There is no obvious evidence, in fact there is no evidence.
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it's pretty obvious...

[Pete F.]

And if you are watching Maguire's testimony, the security agent behind Maguire comes from the CIA’s protection division.

Fun fact: They have unique, limited federal authority—cannot arrest you, but can kill you.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

And if you are watching Maguire's testimony, the security agent behind Maguire comes from the CIA’s protection division.

Fun fact: They have unique, limited federal authority—cannot arrest you, but can kill you.

Isn't Maguire the guy you falsely said threatened to quit? After he gets slandered by you and Schiff and the Dems, he may well need protection.

[scottw]

Biden Inc...


Presidential candidate Joe Biden’s brother used the former vice president’s cancer initiative to drum up investment in his business, Politico reported Thursday.

In November 2018, James Biden told executives at Florida-based company Integrate Oral Care that the Biden Cancer Initiative would promote an oral rinse used by cancer patients and produced by Integrate, according to Michael Frey, the CEO of Diverse Medical Management, a health care firm that is currently suing James Biden.

Frey said that James Biden “said his brother would be very excited about this product.”

David Fuscus, a spokesman for James Biden, denied Frey’s allegations. “These charges stem from a frivolous lawsuit and are pure fantasy,” said Fuscus, continuing, “We are not surprised that such baseless accusations have emerged during the Democratic primaries.”

This is not the first accusation that members of Joe Biden’s family have been accused of using their connections to the former vice president to promote their business interests.

In August 2019 it was reported that both Diverse Medical Management and Azzam Medical Services had sued James Biden, alleging the former vice president’s younger brother had offered to partner with them in a scheme designed to steal the companies’ business models and intellectual property.

[scottw]

Peto’s post are a crime
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[Got Stripers]

I guess I’m confused, don’t people rush to cover up something when they realize criminal behavior had taken place? Allowing criminal behavior to get a pass, suggesting we should let the 2020 election resolve it sets a very dangerous standard of conduct we will allow our elected officials to behave in.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I guess I’m confused

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also obvious

[Pete F.]

Did you read the whistleblowers report?
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[Pete F.]

DNI just said that the most urgent threat America faces is not a military strike from a foreign nation but an attempt to undermine the integrity of our election system. Let that sink in.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

DNI just said that the most urgent threat America faces is not a military strike from a foreign nation but an attempt to undermine the integrity of our election system. Let that sink in.
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Yes, let that sink in. The fake Russia collusion fiasco was a prime example of attempting to undermine that integrity. It appears, as well, that this whistleblower thing is another attempt. As well was Biden's corrupt extortion of Ukraine a collateral besmirch and belittling of our election system.

As well, all the piling on mischaracterization of Trump being a Nazi, misogynist, racist, homophobe, genderphobe, blah--blah, is a huge attempt to undermine the integrity of our election system.