Gun Owners.. Ball is in your court

[Nebe]

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a #^&#^&#^&#^& but what grinds my gears is anyone who thinks what they believe would be better for someone else.
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[tysdad115]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a #^&#^&#^&#^& but what grinds my gears is anyone who thinks what they believe would be better for someone else.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Spot on, and if you don't happen to agree with their view your either racist or insensitive.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

This is the most illogical thing I think I've read on this site…and that counts all Jim's posts...

If you really believe what you just said, then you are a lost cause for sure.

How is it illogical?

Do you think the existence of guns make some people into mass murderers?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

How is it illogical?

If criminals don't care about laws why do people argue the death penalty is a deterrent?

If 50+% of gun deaths are non-assisted suicides, and there's no specific law prohibiting it, how are these people criminals?

And finally, what's a more effective weapon to inflict mass casualties, a knife or a gun?

It's moot now anyway, Jim's comment about North Dakota just put him back in first place

Do you think the existence of guns make some people into mass murderers?

On their own no, but look at this most recent shooting and it's looking quite likely that the family attitude toward guns was a factor.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

If criminals don't care about laws why do people argue the death penalty is a deterrent?

If 50+% of gun deaths are non-assisted suicides, and there's no specific law prohibiting it, how are these people criminals?

And finally, what's a more effective weapon to inflict mass casualties, a knife or a gun?

It's moot now anyway, Jim's comment about North Dakota just put him back in first place


On their own no, but look at this most recent shooting and it's looking quite likely that the family attitude toward guns was a factor.

"Jim's comment about North Dakota just put him back in first place "

Can you be specific? Some folks here seem to think that tighter gun restrictipons will reduce gun violence. I said that the statistics of gun crime and gun ownership seem to contradict that, especially when you compare places like DC/Chicago to the Dakotas. My claim is that people who live in the Dakotas are proof that you can have lots of guns and very little gun crime. Why is that not a valid thing for me to say? Population density?

As always pal, it's very easy to lob an insult and run away.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Jim's comment about North Dakota just put him back in first place "

Can you be specific? Some folks here seem to think that tighter gun restrictipons will reduce gun violence. I said that the statistics of gun crime and gun ownership seem to contradict that, especially when you compare places like DC/Chicago to the Dakotas. My claim is that people who live in the Dakotas are proof that you can have lots of guns and very little gun crime. Why is that not a valid thing for me to say? Population density?

As always pal, it's very easy to lob an insult and run away.

Actually, we don't really know what the statistics say because the NRA doesn't want any statistics to be gathered.

When the CDC was studying this in the 1990's they found that firearms in the household made it 300 times more likely to be shot and 5 times more likely a gun death by suicide.

Comparing gun law in Chicago to North Dakota makes no sense at all. It's not like we have borders, or equal demographics.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually, we don't really know what the statistics say because the NRA doesn't want any statistics to be gathered.

When the CDC was studying this in the 1990's they found that firearms in the household made it 300 times more likely to be shot and 5 times more likely a gun death by suicide.

Comparing gun law in Chicago to North Dakota makes no sense at all. It's not like we have borders, or equal demographics.

please make it stop...I heard a car in the driveway makes it 437 times more likely you'll get in a car accident

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually, we don't really know what the statistics say because the NRA doesn't want any statistics to be gathered.

When the CDC was studying this in the 1990's they found that firearms in the household made it 300 times more likely to be shot and 5 times more likely a gun death by suicide.

Comparing gun law in Chicago to North Dakota makes no sense at all. It's not like we have borders, or equal demographics.

"Actually, we don't really know what the statistics say because the NRA doesn't want any statistics to be gathered."

Actually, we do know what the statistics say, because they are released by the FBI. According to those statistics, gun ownership is much higher in the Dakotas than it is in Chicago and DC, yet gun crimes are much lower there. You are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts. I posted the FBI states in an earlier post, and they are not ambiguous.

"Comparing gun law in Chicago to North Dakota makes no sense at all. It's not like we have borders"

Not gun law. Gun ownership. Gun ownership is low in Chicago, and they have 50 shootings a weekend now. The fact that we have open borders suggests what?

"or equal demographics"

You almost stumbled onto the truth there. It's not gun ownership that determines gun violence rates. It's the character of the people who own the guns.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

If criminals don't care about laws why do people argue the death penalty is a deterrent?

the death penalty is not a law...it's a severe punishment for breaking the law...do i need to explain the difference to you?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

If criminals don't care about laws why do people argue the death penalty is a deterrent?.

Its not a deterrent, it akin to taking out the trash.

Originally Posted by spence

And finally, what's a more effective weapon to inflict mass casualties, a knife or a gun?.

A Bomb, Poison, or maybe driving an out of control car into a crowd

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Its not a deterrent, it akin to taking out the trash.




A Bomb, Poison, or maybe driving an out of control car into a crowd

Add arson to the list and even though it's a stretch drunk driving. Imagine a bus driver being under the influence or for that matter a fuel tanker being driven while under the influence. Being a dart player I would suggest irresponsible bartenders over serving also.
And if we want to really reach how about people who knowingly expose others to deadly diseases, and heck some folks might even suggest second hand smoke. I know some of these are a stretch but they do cause a multitude of deaths everyday and we are not just talking about the occasional rampage shooter when it comes to taking guns away from law abiding citizens.
How many undocumented immigrants cause deaths each year? Technically they are illegal already aren't they.
I might even include drug dealers and even food or prescriptions that are handled or manufactured improperly and served or sold to the public in quantity since folks want to suggest it's not the person it's the tool or object they use.

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[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by spence

If criminals don't care about laws why do people argue the death penalty is a deterrent?

If 50+% of gun deaths are non-assisted suicides, and there's no specific law prohibiting it, how are these people criminals?

And finally, what's a more effective weapon to inflict mass casualties, a knife or a gun?

It's moot now anyway, Jim's comment about North Dakota just put him back in first place


On their own no, but look at this most recent shooting and it's looking quite likely that the family attitude toward guns was a factor.

it's pretty simple spence, the death penalty is a punishment, murder is still a criminal act, as well as owning an illegal weapon. LOGICAL

I thought suicide was against the law, in any case if they use an illegal gun it is criminal. again logical

knife or gun? serious? common sense

Take the money away from all that free stuff given to illegal aliens and pay for armed guards in our schools to protect our innocent children , how is that for common sense?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

it's pretty simple spence, the death penalty is a punishment, murder is still a criminal act, as well as owning an illegal weapon. LOGICAL

I thought suicide was against the law, in any case if they use an illegal gun it is criminal. again logical

knife or gun? serious? common sense

Take the money away from all that free stuff given to illegal aliens and pay for armed guards in our schools to protect our innocent children , how is that for common sense?

The initial remark was criminals don't care about laws, but if that's the case they must not care about punishments either.

Suicide by illegal weapon? Don't know if there's a stat on that but I'd be surprised if it's that common.

What we do know is that firearm deaths with legally procured guns in either non-criminal or non-planned cases are the vast majority. Contrary to detbuch's point made above (didn't have time to respond) firearm deaths now exceed car fatalities.

The Government studies automotive fatalities because it's considered a significant public health issue. Why shouldn't guns be treated the same?

[justplugit]

[QUOTE=spence;1083819 (didn't have time to respond) [/QUOTE]

Oh, that must be why you didn't answer posts #3and #8 on the
80s policy thread?

[Fishpart]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a #^&#^&#^&#^& but what grinds my gears is anyone who thinks what they believe would be better for someone else.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think that if you look at Progressives you will find this is exactly the case!! It is implemented through the Soft Tyranny of making people believe Merry Christmas and Illegal Alien are hate speech.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a #^&#^&#^&#^& but what grinds my gears is anyone who thinks what they believe would be better for someone else.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live, because you are doing great and certainly would never bother anyone.

But the gang bangers in Chicago? It's not appropriate to tell them to stop living like feral animals? It's not better to suggest a more productive culture to embrace?

But you nailed it, liberals are very reluctant to say those things. I don't want to offend anyone or be preachy, but I'm not wrong when I say those people need to change their values. And until they do, we will never be able to address the violence that ensues. Never.