No gun problem in the US

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It's only their fault if they're a white supremacist.

Stupid statement by you both, so what no criminals go to trial, it’s the standard right dodge “guns don’t kill people”. Take all the assault rifles out of the picture since they became available and what is the reduction of the death rates and how many children are able to grow up.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Stupid statement by you both, so what no criminals go to trial, it’s the standard right dodge “guns don’t kill people”. Take all the assault rifles out of the picture since they became available and what is the reduction of the death rates and how many children are able to grow up.

I agree that weapons that look like the AR-15 are disproportionately used in mass shootings. I'm convinced the look of those rifles fuels the fantasies of some very sick folks. But we tried an assault weapons ban, it didn't work. They let it lapse. Doesn't mean it wouldn't have some benefit today, but how do you get rid of the ones already out there?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

The majority of responsible gun owners want better gun control but for some reason Republicans ignore those poll?

I'm going to pull this one quote because this is really where things distill from.

First and foremost, eff off for your statement that insinuates that only the firearm owners that agree with your requirements are responsible. Way to bridge the divide. But your statement there is just a mini version of the left's overall approach; marginalize and demonize the right.

A lot of Republicans want better gun control, but they do not want what the left brings. I'm willing to work for better legislation that would actually make a difference but no matter what goals or concession the right is willing to work on, it will never be enough as the left will want more and consume more. Want to know what would have worked here? A proper and well regulated Red Flag law. Why can't we have a Red Flag law that keeps firearms out of the hands of people that should not have them while respecting the rights of the significant majority of people?

The left wants no guns and the major effort made is to take the guns out of the hands of law abiding people. The left wants a UNIFYING topic they can rally support around to make Republicans Bad People, regardless of the facts on the ground. The left spends BILLIONS of dollars per year to get "assault rifles" banned for the 300-400 per year killed by them and you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year. Gun homicides increased in cities by THIRTY-SEVEN PERCENT in 2020 over 2019. Over Fifty percent of gun deaths are suicide, 45 percent are violent crime. Of that violent crime, a tiny amount are these "Mass Shootings". It is still too much, and most instances of those Mass Shootings are mental health.

The left moves the needle with "Common Sense" Gun reform. Everything from the Left is "Common Sense" and it is stated enough by politicians and a compliant and willing media, they believe it. But it entirely misses the problem, mental health.

I will not accept the lefts targeting of Legal Gun owners rather than targeting the people likely to commit the crime. We could work on that but we don't because the Left doesn't want that, they want to break those that don't agree with them.

So, no, I will give in to your demands. I will not accept your "common sense" and more kids are going to die because we can't work together because YOUR side demands changes that won't resolve anything at the problem level while directly impacting the rights of those that are not the problem.

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Stupid statement by you both, so what no criminals go to trial, it’s the standard right dodge “guns don’t kill people”. Take all the assault rifles out of the picture since they became available and what is the reduction of the death rates and how many children are able to grow up.

Take "assault weapons" out of the picture and 2020's 46,000 gun deaths comes way down to about 45,700.

So, no, "assault weapons", the major target of the dems and, cough, Common Sense Gun Laws people, cough, is responsible for much less than 1% of annual gun deaths.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I'm going to pull this one quote because this is really where things distill from.

First and foremost, eff off for your statement that insinuates that only the firearm owners that agree with your requirements are responsible. Way to bridge the divide. But your statement there is just a mini version of the left's overall approach; marginalize and demonize the right.

A lot of Republicans want better gun control, but they do not want what the left brings. I'm willing to work for better legislation that would actually make a difference but no matter what goals or concession the right is willing to work on, it will never be enough as the left will want more and consume more. Want to know what would have worked here? A proper and well regulated Red Flag law. Why can't we have a Red Flag law that keeps firearms out of the hands of people that should not have them while respecting the rights of the significant majority of people?

The left wants no guns and the major effort made is to take the guns out of the hands of law abiding people. The left wants a UNIFYING topic they can rally support around to make Republicans Bad People, regardless of the facts on the ground. The left spends BILLIONS of dollars per year to get "assault rifles" banned for the 300-400 per year killed by them and you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year. Gun homicides increased in cities by THIRTY-SEVEN PERCENT in 2020 over 2019. Over Fifty percent of gun deaths are suicide, 45 percent are violent crime. Of that violent crime, a tiny amount are these "Mass Shootings". It is still too much, and most instances of those Mass Shootings are mental health.

The left moves the needle with "Common Sense" Gun reform. Everything from the Left is "Common Sense" and it is stated enough by politicians and a compliant and willing media, they believe it. But it entirely misses the problem, mental health.

I will not accept the lefts targeting of Legal Gun owners rather than targeting the people likely to commit the crime. We could work on that but we don't because the Left doesn't want that, they want to break those that don't agree with them.

So, no, I will give in to your demands. I will not accept your "common sense" and more kids are going to die because we can't work together because YOUR side demands changes that won't resolve anything at the problem level while directly impacting the rights of those that are not the problem.







Take "assault weapons" out of the picture and 2020's 46,000 gun deaths comes way down to about 45,700.

So, no, "assault weapons", the major target of the dems and, cough, Common Sense Gun Laws people, cough, is responsible for much less than 1% of annual gun deaths.

Red flag laws MIGHT have stopped Sandy Hook. That poor kid was well known as being horribly broken. But it's also very easy to see red flag laws abused, where certain people would spend all day calling the cops, telling them that everyone they don't like, is too dangerous to own a gun. Very ripe for abuse.

Very, very tough.

"you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year."

This is exactly true, and it's irrefutable proof that this isn't about saving lives, it's about demonizing the other side to win elections. If you actually want to save lives, you'd immediately implement stop and frisk in every single big city. We know that worked. We san see what New York looked like before, during, and after. But ideology is what matters here, not results.

You never get this worked up. Tough times. And getting worse.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Red flag laws MIGHT have stopped Sandy Hook. That poor kid was well known as being horribly broken. But it's also very easy to see red flag laws abused, where certain people would spend all day calling the cops, telling them that everyone they don't like, is too dangerous to own a gun. Very ripe for abuse.

A Red Flag law that has serious provisions to protect people's individual rights - current ones don't - and are written to mitigate bad faith manipulation - yeh, I can get behind those.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

A Red Flag law that has serious provisions to protect people's individual rights - current ones don't - and are written to mitigate bad faith manipulation - yeh, I can get behind those.

agreed. THATS common sense.

and institute stop and frisk to address garden variety city gun violence.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

agreed. THATS common sense.

and institute stop and frisk to address garden variety city gun violence.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I am mixed on Stop and Frisk because THAT has impacts on the person's rights. There needs to be Just Cause, yada yada yada, to search someone by Gov officals.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and institute stop and frisk to address garden variety city gun violence.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

In 2012, the NYPD made more than 532,000 stops, each of which could progress to a frisk or to a full search. The police found guns only 715 times. In other words, guns were found during 0.1 percent of stops.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

In 2012, the NYPD made more than 532,000 stops, each of which could progress to a frisk or to a full search. The police found guns only 715 times. In other words, guns were found during 0.1 percent of stops.

If the cops weren't doing anything else at that specific time, removing 715 illegally carried guns in one year, seems like a worthwhile use of time. Until the bad guys start wearing signs that announce their intentions, unfortunately we need to cast the net pretty wide. What's a more efficient way to get illegal guns of the street? Ask criminals to pretty please turn themselves in? Chicago and DC in recent past had very tough restrictions on gun ownership, did that help gun crime more than the things Rudy did?

Put stop and frisk, specifically, aside. Did murder rates drop meaningfully during Rudy's tenure Paul? Did he do a great job with violent crime? In the 5-6 years begore Rudy was sworn in, NYC had about 2500 murders a year. By the time he left, it was under 1,000 a year. Rapes went from 5,000 per year to 3,500. Robberies from over 100,000 per year to under 40,000. Total violent crimes from over 200,000 per year to under 100,000.

Maybe stop and frisk had zero impact. But obviously in aggregate, the things he did, helped. Why in Gods name would we willfully choose to ignore that, because we don't like the party he is affiliated with?

We would all (conservatives included) do well to put ideology aside, focus on results. Look at what has worked, and do more of that. Look at what doesn't work, and stop doing it. Why is that so hard?

https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I'm going to pull this one quote because this is really where things distill from.

First and foremost, eff off for your statement that insinuates that only the firearm owners that agree with your requirements are responsible. Way to bridge the divide. But your statement there is just a mini version of the left's overall approach; marginalize and demonize the right.

A lot of Republicans want better gun control, but they do not want what the left brings. I'm willing to work for better legislation that would actually make a difference but no matter what goals or concession the right is willing to work on, it will never be enough as the left will want more and consume more. Want to know what would have worked here? A proper and well regulated Red Flag law. Why can't we have a Red Flag law that keeps firearms out of the hands of people that should not have them while respecting the rights of the significant majority of people?

The left wants no guns and the major effort made is to take the guns out of the hands of law abiding people. The left wants a UNIFYING topic they can rally support around to make Republicans Bad People, regardless of the facts on the ground. The left spends BILLIONS of dollars per year to get "assault rifles" banned for the 300-400 per year killed by them and you don't hear a fcking peep about the 15000 murders in America's cities every year. Gun homicides increased in cities by THIRTY-SEVEN PERCENT in 2020 over 2019. Over Fifty percent of gun deaths are suicide, 45 percent are violent crime. Of that violent crime, a tiny amount are these "Mass Shootings". It is still too much, and most instances of those Mass Shootings are mental health.

The left moves the needle with "Common Sense" Gun reform. Everything from the Left is "Common Sense" and it is stated enough by politicians and a compliant and willing media, they believe it. But it entirely misses the problem, mental health.

I will not accept the lefts targeting of Legal Gun owners rather than targeting the people likely to commit the crime. We could work on that but we don't because the Left doesn't want that, they want to break those that don't agree with them.

So, no, I will give in to your demands. I will not accept your "common sense" and more kids are going to die because we can't work together because YOUR side demands changes that won't resolve anything at the problem level while directly impacting the rights of those that are not the problem.







Take "assault weapons" out of the picture and 2020's 46,000 gun deaths comes way down to about 45,700.

So, no, "assault weapons", the major target of the dems and, cough, Common Sense Gun Laws people, cough, is responsible for much less than 1% of annual gun deaths.

Do the math on mass shootings only, I'm betting it's a different picture and you just keep putting ignorant statements up one after the other. The "left wants no guns", so no left gun owners, no left hunters, no left owners of guns to protect their homes, what a crock John.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Do the math on mass shootings only, I'm betting it's a different picture and you just keep putting ignorant statements up one after the other. The "left wants no guns", so no left gun owners, no left hunters, no left owners of guns to protect their homes, what a crock John.

Not a crock, Bob. Receipts Bob, I bring receipts. The difference between me and you on this topic is that I have at least done some homework and you are reacting to the feels.


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...hs-in-the-u-s/