Disaster

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets,

I was listening to a reporter from the BBC this morning on NPR, Wayne loves the British press and I bet you love NPR, the reporter was commenting on Boris Johnson his recent remarks about UK service people's lives and efforts in Afghanistan not being in vain...and the reporter referred to the current situation in Afghanistan as "what is widely recognized as a foreign policy disaster"...those were not Boris' words, that was the characterization of the BBC reporter...probably a trump voter

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wayne they get the talking points from the usual outlets, never mind the fact the US should have never stayed there after our initial mission was completed. We all enjoy our democracy, but to be so arrogant to believe we can force that way of life elsewhere is a mistake we continue to make.

I don't think Newsweek, Meet the Press, and General McMaster would be considered usual outlets for "they."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

"McMaster warned against 'self-delusion' that the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan means the war is over."

"McMaster believed the Taliban could have been defeated and that the troops were on a 'path to slowly strengthening over time.' He added it does not 'make sense' to tell the Taliban we're leaving, and that we want to negotiate a settlement."

"He said the war ended in self-defeat and criticized both the Trump and Biden administrations over the way the American troop withdrawal was handled."

He said ""What we did is surrendered to a Jihadist organization and assumed there would be no consequences for that,"


So . . . because we didn't destroy the Taliban, and now surrendered to it, is the war over? Are the various Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, and other Jihadist groups now emboldened to hurt us, or have they "learned their lesson" and will now stay away from us and just more confidently step up their extinction of non-Muslim people in the lands they rule or co-occupy with those non-Muslims?

And if it's the latter will we and the rest of the world not involve ourselves in their mission to exterminate millions of their non-Muslim countrymen?

And if, for some reason or other, the war with them is not over and it rears its ugly head, will we finally get together and just finally wipe them out and be done with it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I don't think Newsweek, Meet the Press, and General McMaster would be considered usual outlets for "they."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

"McMaster warned against 'self-delusion' that the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan means the war is over."

"McMaster believed the Taliban could have been defeated and that the troops were on a 'path to slowly strengthening over time.' He added it does not 'make sense' to tell the Taliban we're leaving, and that we want to negotiate a settlement."

"He said the war ended in self-defeat and criticized both the Trump and Biden administrations over the way the American troop withdrawal was handled."

He said ""What we did is surrendered to a Jihadist organization and assumed there would be no consequences for that,"


So . . . because we didn't destroy the Taliban, and now surrendered to it, is the war over? Are the various Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, and other Jihadist groups now emboldened to hurt us, or have they "learned their lesson" and will now stay away from us and just more confidently step up their extinction of non-Muslim people in the lands they rule or co-occupy with those non-Muslims?

And if it's the latter will we and the rest of the world not involve ourselves in their mission to exterminate millions of their non-Muslim countrymen?

And if, for some reason or other, the war with them is not over and it rears its ugly head, will we finally get together and just finally wipe them out and be done with it.

Because Genocide is ultimate solution
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Because Genocide is ultimate solution
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Your label, not mine. It seems to be the solution of choice by Muslims in many places.

Do you have a solution?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Your label, not mine. It seems to be the solution of choice by Muslims in many places.

Do you have a solution?

As it happens, the US wiped 3 Afghan villages off the face of the earth in 2010. They were called Tarek Kolache, Khosrow Sofia and Lower Babur. These are the details of a 20-year war that don’t get remembered, let alone discussed. This barbarism was not hypothetical. It was fact.
People will remember what we did and seek revenge.
Much like you
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

As it happens, the US wiped 3 Afghan villages off the face of the earth in 2010. They were called Tarek Kolache, Khosrow Sofia and Lower Babur. These are the details of a 20-year war that don’t get remembered, let alone discussed. This barbarism was not hypothetical. It was fact.
People will remember what we did and seek revenge.
Much like you
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So you have no solution. Throwing out inaccurate labels like genocide and revenge is not a solution.

[Pete F.]

I just think it feels good to have a President who doesn’t draw his own hurricane maps.
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[Pete F.]

History will have a different answer than the current political rhetoric.
This article from the Atlantic will likely be too much for some trolls to read.

America’s longest war has been by any measure a costly failure, and the errors in managing the conflict deserve scrutiny in the years to come. But Joe Biden doesn’t “own” the mayhem on the ground right now. What we’re seeing is the culmination of 20 years of bad decisions by U.S. political and military leaders. If anything, Americans should feel proud of what the U.S. government and military have accomplished in these past two weeks. President Biden deserves credit, not blame.
Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement. Although Donald Trump made a plan to end the war, he set a departure date that fell after the end of his first term and created conditions that made the situation Biden inherited more precarious. And despite significant pressure and obstacles, Biden has overseen a military and government that have managed, since the announcement of America’s withdrawal, one of the most extraordinary logistical feats in their recent history. By the time the last American plane lifts off from Hamid Karzai International Airport on August 31, the total number of Americans and Afghan allies extricated from the country may exceed 120,000.
In the days following the fall of Kabul earlier this month—an event that triggered a period of chaos, fear, and grief—critics castigated the Biden administration for its failure to properly coordinate the departure of the last Americans and allies from the country. The White House was indeed surprised by how quickly the Taliban took control, and those early days could have been handled better. But the critics argued that more planning both would have been able to stop the Taliban victory and might have made America’s departure somehow tidier, more like a win or perhaps even a draw. The chaos, many said, was symptomatic of a bigger error. They argued that the United States should stay in Afghanistan, that the cost of remaining was worth the benefits a small force might bring.
Former military officers and intelligence operatives, as well as commentators who had long been advocates of extending America’s presence in Afghanistan, railed against Biden’s artificial deadline. Some critics were former Bush-administration officials or supporters who had gotten the U.S. into the mess in the first place, setting us on the impossible path toward nation building and, effectively, a mission without a clear exit or metric for success. Some were Obama-administration officials or supporters who had doubled down on the investment of personnel in the country and later, when the futility of the war was clear, lacked the political courage to withdraw. Some were Trump-administration officials or supporters who had negotiated with and helped strengthen the Taliban with their concessions in the peace deal and then had punted the ultimate exit from the country to the next administration.
They all conveniently forgot that they were responsible for some of America’s biggest errors in this war and instead were incandescently self-righteous in their invective against the Biden administration. Never mind the fact that the Taliban had been gaining ground since it resumed its military campaign in 2004 and, according to U.S. estimates even four years ago, controlled or contested about a third of Afghanistan. Never mind that the previous administration’s deal with the Taliban included the release of 5,000 fighters from prison and favored an even earlier departure date than the one that Biden embraced. Never mind that Trump had drawn down U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500 during his last year in office and had failed to repatriate America’s equipment on the ground. Never mind the delay caused by Trump and his adviser Stephen Miller’s active obstruction of special visas for Afghans who helped us.
Never mind the facts. Never mind the losses. Never mind the lessons. Biden, they felt, was in the wrong.

Despite the criticism, Biden, who had argued unsuccessfully when he was Barack Obama’s vice president to seriously reduce America’s presence in Afghanistan, remained resolute. Rather than view the heartbreaking scenes in Afghanistan in a political light as his opponents did, Biden effectively said, “Politics be damned—we’re going to do what’s right” and ordered his team to stick with the deadline and find a way to make the best of the difficult situation in Kabul.
The Biden administration nimbly adapted its plans, ramping up the airlift and sending additional troops into the country to aid crisis teams and to enhance security. Around-the-clock flights came into and went out of Afghanistan. Giant cargo planes departed, a number of them packed with as many as 600 occupants. Senior administration officials convened regular meetings with U.S. allies to find destinations for those planes to land and places for the refugees to stay. The State Department tracked down Americans in the country, as well as Afghans who had worked with the U.S., to arrange their passage to the airport. The Special Immigrant Visa program that the Trump administration had slowed down was kicked into high gear. Despite years of fighting, the administration and the military spoke with the Taliban many times to coordinate passage of those seeking to depart to the airport, to mitigate risks as best as possible, to discuss their shared interest in meeting the August 31 deadline.
The process was relentless and imperfect and, as we all have seen in the most horrific way, not without huge risks for those staying behind to help. On August 26, a suicide bomber associated with ISIS-K killed more than 150 Afghans and 13 American service members who were gathered outside the airport. However, even that heinous act didn’t deter the military. In a 24-hour period from Thursday to Friday, 12,500 people were airlifted out of the country and the president recommitted to meeting the August 31 deadline. And he did so even as his critics again sought to capitalize on tragedy for their own political gain: Republicans called for the impeachment of Biden and of Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Within hours of the attack at the airport, America struck back, killing two terrorists and injuring another with a missile launched from a drone. A separate drone strike targeted a vehicle full of explosives on Sunday. In doing so, Biden countered the argument that America might lack the intelligence or military resources we would need to defend ourselves against violent extremists now that our troops are leaving.
The very last chapter of America’s benighted stay in Afghanistan should be seen as one of accomplishment on the part of the military and its civilian leadership. Once again the courage and unique capabilities of the U.S. armed services have been made clear. And, in a stark change from recent years, an American leader has done the hard thing, the right thing: set aside politics and put both America’s interests and values first.

David Rothkopf is an author, a commentator, a former senior government official, and the host of the Deep State Radio podcast.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

History will have a different answer than the current political rhetoric.
This article from the Atlantic will likely be too much for some trolls to read.

America’s longest war has been by any measure a costly failure, and the errors in managing the conflict deserve scrutiny in the years to come. But Joe Biden doesn’t “own” the mayhem on the ground right now. What we’re seeing is the culmination of 20 years of bad decisions by U.S. political and military leaders. If anything, Americans should feel proud of what the U.S. government and military have accomplished in these past two weeks. President Biden deserves credit, not blame.
Unlike his three immediate predecessors in the Oval Office, all of whom also came to see the futility of the Afghan operation, Biden alone had the political courage to fully end America’s involvement. Although Donald Trump made a plan to end the war, he set a departure date that fell after the end of his first term and created conditions that made the situation Biden inherited more precarious. And despite significant pressure and obstacles, Biden has overseen a military and government that have managed, since the announcement of America’s withdrawal, one of the most extraordinary logistical feats in their recent history. By the time the last American plane lifts off from Hamid Karzai International Airport on August 31, the total number of Americans and Afghan allies extricated from the country may exceed 120,000.
In the days following the fall of Kabul earlier this month—an event that triggered a period of chaos, fear, and grief—critics castigated the Biden administration for its failure to properly coordinate the departure of the last Americans and allies from the country. The White House was indeed surprised by how quickly the Taliban took control, and those early days could have been handled better. But the critics argued that more planning both would have been able to stop the Taliban victory and might have made America’s departure somehow tidier, more like a win or perhaps even a draw. The chaos, many said, was symptomatic of a bigger error. They argued that the United States should stay in Afghanistan, that the cost of remaining was worth the benefits a small force might bring.
Former military officers and intelligence operatives, as well as commentators who had long been advocates of extending America’s presence in Afghanistan, railed against Biden’s artificial deadline. Some critics were former Bush-administration officials or supporters who had gotten the U.S. into the mess in the first place, setting us on the impossible path toward nation building and, effectively, a mission without a clear exit or metric for success. Some were Obama-administration officials or supporters who had doubled down on the investment of personnel in the country and later, when the futility of the war was clear, lacked the political courage to withdraw. Some were Trump-administration officials or supporters who had negotiated with and helped strengthen the Taliban with their concessions in the peace deal and then had punted the ultimate exit from the country to the next administration.
They all conveniently forgot that they were responsible for some of America’s biggest errors in this war and instead were incandescently self-righteous in their invective against the Biden administration. Never mind the fact that the Taliban had been gaining ground since it resumed its military campaign in 2004 and, according to U.S. estimates even four years ago, controlled or contested about a third of Afghanistan. Never mind that the previous administration’s deal with the Taliban included the release of 5,000 fighters from prison and favored an even earlier departure date than the one that Biden embraced. Never mind that Trump had drawn down U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500 during his last year in office and had failed to repatriate America’s equipment on the ground. Never mind the delay caused by Trump and his adviser Stephen Miller’s active obstruction of special visas for Afghans who helped us.
Never mind the facts. Never mind the losses. Never mind the lessons. Biden, they felt, was in the wrong.

Despite the criticism, Biden, who had argued unsuccessfully when he was Barack Obama’s vice president to seriously reduce America’s presence in Afghanistan, remained resolute. Rather than view the heartbreaking scenes in Afghanistan in a political light as his opponents did, Biden effectively said, “Politics be damned—we’re going to do what’s right” and ordered his team to stick with the deadline and find a way to make the best of the difficult situation in Kabul.
The Biden administration nimbly adapted its plans, ramping up the airlift and sending additional troops into the country to aid crisis teams and to enhance security. Around-the-clock flights came into and went out of Afghanistan. Giant cargo planes departed, a number of them packed with as many as 600 occupants. Senior administration officials convened regular meetings with U.S. allies to find destinations for those planes to land and places for the refugees to stay. The State Department tracked down Americans in the country, as well as Afghans who had worked with the U.S., to arrange their passage to the airport. The Special Immigrant Visa program that the Trump administration had slowed down was kicked into high gear. Despite years of fighting, the administration and the military spoke with the Taliban many times to coordinate passage of those seeking to depart to the airport, to mitigate risks as best as possible, to discuss their shared interest in meeting the August 31 deadline.
The process was relentless and imperfect and, as we all have seen in the most horrific way, not without huge risks for those staying behind to help. On August 26, a suicide bomber associated with ISIS-K killed more than 150 Afghans and 13 American service members who were gathered outside the airport. However, even that heinous act didn’t deter the military. In a 24-hour period from Thursday to Friday, 12,500 people were airlifted out of the country and the president recommitted to meeting the August 31 deadline. And he did so even as his critics again sought to capitalize on tragedy for their own political gain: Republicans called for the impeachment of Biden and of Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Within hours of the attack at the airport, America struck back, killing two terrorists and injuring another with a missile launched from a drone. A separate drone strike targeted a vehicle full of explosives on Sunday. In doing so, Biden countered the argument that America might lack the intelligence or military resources we would need to defend ourselves against violent extremists now that our troops are leaving.
The very last chapter of America’s benighted stay in Afghanistan should be seen as one of accomplishment on the part of the military and its civilian leadership. Once again the courage and unique capabilities of the U.S. armed services have been made clear. And, in a stark change from recent years, an American leader has done the hard thing, the right thing: set aside politics and put both America’s interests and values first.

David Rothkopf is an author, a commentator, a former senior government official, and the host of the Deep State Radio podcast.
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It read pretty much like what you referred to as "current political rhetoric."

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It read pretty much like what you referred to as "current political rhetoric."

Is that what the boy from Brazil who thinks for you says?
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Is that what the boy from Brazil who thinks for you says?
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Is that what you think?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Is that what you think?

Don’t you have a YouTube video for this?

Congress authorized US forces to go after 9/11 culprits in September 2001, Osama bin Laden the leader of the Saudis who attacked the USA was killed years ago. When did Congress vote to declare war on Afghanistan?

We have more to fear from the next Terry McVeigh or Floyd Ray Rosebury in this country than we do from ISIS or the Taliban.
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[Got Stripers]

The disaster is over, finally a president had the balls to end this war that should have ended a long time ago. My thoughts go our to our military families who have lost love ones in this war, let’s hope we finally learn something from this one; although history would suggest we aren’t capable of learning from our mistakes.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

The disaster is over,

At least you admit it was a disaster, that's a start.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

At least you admit it was a disaster, that's a start.

haha...no...the time leading up to biden's presidency was a disaster...biden's balls fixed everything...no worries going forward

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

At least you admit it was a disaster, that's a start.

It was a rolling disaster right after we failed to leave after the initial mission was completed and if you think any administration would avoid a similar disaster knowing the situation as we do now your kidding yourself. Shades of a disaster is all that would vary.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

It was a rolling disaster right after we failed to leave after the initial mission was completed and if you think any administration would avoid a similar disaster knowing the situation as we do now your kidding yourself. Shades of a disaster is all that would vary.

you don't know this....

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

The disaster is over, finally a president had the balls to end this war that should have ended a long time ago. My thoughts go our to our military families who have lost love ones in this war, let’s hope we finally learn something from this one; although history would suggest we aren’t capable of learning from our mistakes.

Holy #^&#^&#^&#^&
“Finally a President with balls”
Biden doesn’t know what day it is or where he is most of the time.
The guy is mentally ill and nothing more than a puppet for Obama
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Holy #^&#^&#^&#^&
“Finally a President with balls”
Biden doesn’t know what day it is or where he is most of the time.
The guy is mentally ill and nothing more than a puppet for Obama
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As opposed to Trump who boasted how smart he was yet special needs children have a better grasp of the English language, geography and science. Time will tell, but he also might be not only the first “smart” president to be impeached twice and also convicted of crimes ruling out ever running again. Maybe Stone, Manifort, Rudy and Don the Con can start a club and lament over drinks how the evil left, of course corrupt prosecutors, oh wait and the Left owned media (insert Fox snicker here) conspired to take them down.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

As opposed to Trump who boasted how smart he was yet special needs children have a better grasp of the English language, geography and science. Time will tell, but he also might be not only the first “smart” president to be impeached twice and also convicted of crimes ruling out ever running again. Maybe Stone, Manifort, Rudy and Don the Con can start a club and lament over drinks how the evil left, of course corrupt prosecutors, oh wait and the Left owned media (insert Fox snicker here) conspired to take them down.

Dude
You need help
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Dude
You need help
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I've been telling him and pete to get a session or two with a shrink....

[Jim in CT]

so it’s “balls-y” to pull out while 100+ Americans are still there, a few days after explicitly promising not to leave until they were all out. That takes balls?

And Trump is a war hawk because he doesn’t want to leave weapons in the hands of the Taliban.

That’s some infallible logic.

This week, he also clearly called a black congressman “boy”, and said out loud that he needs instructions on which Pre-selected, softball-lobbing reporter he’s supposed to call on first.

On the other hand, we did get tens of thousands of people out quickly and that’s a real, true feat. But Biden completely failed to keep his promise, and huge mistakes were made, i cannnot begin to imagine the reasoning for abandoning an easily defended military airfield in exchange for an impossible-to-defend civilian one.
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[Pete F.]

Wonder who set this up....

Remember that three weeks ago the RNC still had on their page claims that Trump had eliminated ISIS and Biden was for endless wars.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210615...ddle-east-rsr/

[Pete F.]

NYT finally interviewed swing districts voters about Afghanistan and found almost universal agreement: "After a two-decade war, President Biden was right to pull American troops out of Afghanistan."


And today's speech is pretty much what I expected from Biden. Not charismatic, like Obama. Not chest-thumping, like Trump.

Just simple. He said this was what he was going to do and he did it. He'll accept the fallout. The great majority of Americans will pay just as much attention to the end of the war as they did to the last twenty years, in other words, not very much.

[Jim in CT]

“If there’s American citizens left, we’re going to stay to get them all out.”

- President Biden, in a softball interview with ABC news, a few days before he ordered our withdrawal, thereby abandoning between 100 and 200 Americans, leaving them at the mercy of the Taliban.

Is that a “balls-y” move, Got Stripers?
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

“If there’s American citizens left, we’re going to stay to get them all out.”

- President Biden, in a softball interview with ABC news, a few days before he ordered our withdrawal, thereby abandoning between 100 and 200 Americans, leaving them at the mercy of the Taliban.

Is that a “balls-y” move, Got Stripers?
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Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy. Biden pulled our service men and women out of a war they shouldn’t have been in past the original mission and people left behind aren’t lost yet. Our Middle East fu*cked up policy has got way to many US lives
lost, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Irak and Afghan lives lost, because we are fighting wars we have no business starting or staying in.

Yes Biden had the balls to follow up on his promise to get us out and yes it got messy, but if your an idiot you would blame that on Biden, has nothing to do with anything else, you crack me up. I love poking at the right on this forum, it got old and tired at times, but this one is to rich.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy. Biden pulled our service men and women out of a war they shouldn’t have been in past the original mission and people left behind aren’t lost yet. Our Middle East fu*cked up policy has got way to many US lives, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Irak and Afghan lives, because we are fighting wars we have no business starting or staying in.

Yes Biden had the balls to follow up on his promise to get us out and yes it got messy, but if your an idiot you would blame that on Biden, has nothing to do with anything else, you crack me up. I love poking at the right on this forum, it got old and tired at times, but this one is to rich.

did biden keep his promise to the americans left behind? simple question.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

did biden keep his promise to the americans left behind? simple question.
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Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

did he promise to use use “other avenues” to eventually get them
out? or did he promise on national television, to stay until they were all out? is that question too complicated for you?

you guys crack me up. i voted for trump twice, but i can immediately admit he’s at best a very flawed individual, at worst someone who belongs in a mental institution for megalomaniacs. i can readily say that, even though i supported him, because it’s obviously true. I don’t need to deny truth to protect my ideology.

You can’t do the same. you can’t simply admit he broke a promise. you’ll bend over backwards, go to any length to avoid any criticism. because it’s not about truth to you folk, it’s about serving the ideology no matter what. protect the narrative at all costs.

By the way, the answer to my question, as everyone knows, s that he broke the promise. might not be his fault, as there’s a meaningful chance he has no memory of what he said three days ago.

But i’m the one with the character flaw, stupidity in this case.

You seem very, very defensive. What are you afraid will happen, exactly, if you just concede he broke a promise?



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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

suddenly a military operations expert....I think it was promised as a "withdrawal" which has turned into an "evacuation" since biden f*ck*d it up