The 2024 candidates speak

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Very well thought out and thought provoking post delivered respectfully.

I can’t wait for Wayne’s reinterpretation of it, where you get told you’re a Trump loving Nazi sympathizer.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

i was a public school teacher. And there is no argument against school choice, unless all you care about is the union. Kids benefit from school choice. Only public unions lose a little. So the question is, do schools exist to enrich unions, or do they exist to help students achieve their dreams? That’s not a difficult question for me.

And thanks.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Very well thought out and thought provoking post delivered respectfully.

I can’t wait for Wayne’s reinterpretation of it, where you get told you’re a Trump loving Nazi sympathizer.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Very well thought out and thought provoking post delivered respectfully.

Unlike your response spoken like a child shocking ..

[The Dad Fisherman]

Just cutting to the chase, not like that’s not your usual response
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

„so you are looking for 100% of your taxes back”?

No. I proposed $3k. that’s a small percentage

How much if my money are you entitled to, in order to pay off student loans your family chose to take on?

How much of my money are you entitled to? and how much are my kids entitled to?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

„so you are looking for 100% of your taxes back”?

No. I proposed $3k. that’s a small percentage

How much if my money are you entitled to, in order to pay off student loans your family chose to take on?

How much of my money are you entitled to? and how much are my kids entitled to?

How about looking at the percentage that the school department gets in the annual budget, then give that same percentage back to the tax payers that want to send their kids to alternative schooling, based on their taxes paid.

Could be a starting point for discussion.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

How about looking at the percentage that the school department gets in the annual budget, then give that same percentage back to the tax payers that want to send their kids to alternative schooling, based on their taxes paid.

Could be a starting point for discussion.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it’s a perfectly logical starting point. But it will never take place in blue states, because the democrats are beholden to the unions.

i thought liberals were “pro choice.”. i’m almost certain I’ve heard that somewhere.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

How about looking at the percentage that the school department gets in the annual budget, then give that same percentage back to the tax payers that want to send their kids to alternative schooling, based on their taxes paid.

Could be a starting point for discussion.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

How about looking at the parents income and how many children they have in the system. And base any refund based on that .. also see if the child ever attended public school to start with.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

How about looking at the parents income and how many children they have in the system.

Maybe that is something that can be discussed

Originally Posted by wdmso

And base any refund based on that ..

It's not really a refund, it's more of a redirecting of funds for education

Originally Posted by wdmso

also see if the child ever attended public school to start with.

What does that have to do with anything, if a parent decides what he wants his child's education needs to be from kindergarten on up, they are allowed

[wdmso]

Trump defends meeting with known white supremacist, says he ‘knew nothing’ about him

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Maybe that is something that can be discussed



It's not really a refund, it's more of a redirecting of funds for education



What does that have to do with anything, if a parent decides what he wants his child's education needs to be from kindergarten on up, they are allowed

Hard to claim they systems broken if you never used the system so claiming is broken . Then asking for public money to support religious schooling which is actually the push by the right for school choice

[Got Stripers]

Peg's been paying taxes for years, without any children, it's a unfair system for those that are NOT benefitting from the public school system.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Peg's been paying taxes for years, without any children, it's a unfair system for those that are NOT benefitting from the public school system.

i disagree. if we never had kids i’d still support paying taxes to help fund good public schools. We all have a vested interest in having good public schools, that helps all of us. But if i feel that another school is better for my kids, a great argument can be made that everyone is better off if i can use a small portion of my own money to fund it. there isn’t a great argument against it that i’ve heard.

[Pete F.]

The unheard argument

The Republican Plan To Devastate Public Education in America
Conservatives talk about “school choice.” What they really want, though, will result in the end of public education for the poor, and disfavored minorities like LGBT people.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1673...cation-america
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The unheard argument

The Republican Plan To Devastate Public Education in America
Conservatives talk about “school choice.” What they really want, though, will result in the end of public education for the poor, and disfavored minorities like LGBT people.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1673...cation-america
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

can you name one place that currently has school
choice, where public education has ended for the poor?

If you think a tiny sliver of competition will
mean the end of public education, you must have a crappy view of public education.

a little competition will incentivize public educaton to improve.

If every private sector company can survive in a competitive landscaoe, eh do you assume public schools cannot?

What a stupid, devoid of logic, argument.

PS you’re not really pro choice then, are you?

[Jim in CT]

Pete is afraid that school choice will ruin public education for poor people.

I can make a compelling argument that lack of school choice has already ruined it. In Baltimore, among 13 public high schools, recently there were zero students meeting accepted grade proficiency in math.

Zero students hitting math proficiency, at 13 high schools.

Pete would force kids to stay in these failing sh-tholes. I say they’d deserve much better, and the problem won’t be fixed by giving raises and more perks to the teachers there.

https://foxbaltimore.com/amp/news/pr...icient-in-math

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Pete is afraid that school choice will ruin public education for poor people.

I can make a compelling argument that lack of school choice has already ruined it. In Baltimore, among 13 public high schools, recently there were zero students meeting accepted grade proficiency in math.

Zero students hitting math proficiency, at 13 high schools.

Pete would force kids to stay in these failing sh-tholes. I say they’d deserve much better, and the problem won’t be fixed by giving raises and more perks to the teachers there.

https://foxbaltimore.com/amp/news/pr...icient-in-math

Jim and his conservatives friends love using inner cities as their examples from gun violence to education to overall crime

It’s all they have ever done . There is example after example across the country what school choices means for Conservatives. Things called data and statistics. But their dismissed as fake news

Claiming it’s to help the underserved is just another lie told with a straight Face in public ..


Right on the Texas Republicans website

Republican Party of Texas legislative priority

The Problem
Parents are not able to give their children the educational opportunities they desire.
Parents don’t have ownership over their tax dollars being used for educational funding.
Some solutions lead to greater problems since they require tax money to be given to the government from some and then distributed to others — an unfair system that creates unwanted government strings.
The Solution
Distribute educational funds in a manner that they follow the student to any school, whether public, private, charter, or home school through means of tax exemptions and/or credits.

Then you get a list of what to say on social media’s

Sample Tweets:

I stand for #schoolchoice. Let my money follow my student.
I’m a parent who’s asking for my tax dollars to follow my child to the school I choose. #schoolchoice
Texas parents have a right to choose the best education for their children. Let my money follow my student. #schoolchoice

Letter to the Editor:

Here’s a sample letter to the editor that you can customize, personalize, and submit to your local newspaper. An ideal time is when this subject comes up in the news. Be sure to check and follow your paper’s guidelines for length and submission.


Yet this same party is banning books attacking trans youth and their families claiming teachers are indoctrination sites for children. There trying to defund a system to benefit their small base who wants tax money to send their kids to religious schools


It’s all here ! Republican candidates are platforming nationwide calls for “parents’ rights” and school choice. They want curriculum posted online and for parents to be able to opt out of certain lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity. Many oppose lessons they feel are too closely tied to critical race theory, an academic framework that looks at the roles of race and racism in U.S. history, law and institutions. They also want taxpayer dollars to flow to private and religious schools.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

.


Yet this same party is banning books attacking trans youth and their families claiming teachers are indoctrination sites for children. There trying to defund a system to benefit their small base who wants tax money to send their kids to religious schools


It’s all here ! Republican candidates are platforming nationwide calls for “parents’ rights” and school choice. They want curriculum posted online and for parents to be able to opt out of certain lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity. Many oppose lessons they feel are too closely tied to critical race theory, an academic framework that looks at the roles of race and racism in U.S. history, law and institutions. They also want taxpayer dollars to flow to private and religious schools.

"Yet this same party is banning books"

Not sure what book appropriateness has to do with school choice, but whatever. Are you saying liberals don't use censure, don't ban books they don't like (like To Kill A Mockingbird, Huckleberry Finn), don't take down statues that are offensive to them, etc? As always, it's OK when liberals do it.

"attacking trans youth"

Sorry. Telling biological boys that they can't watch girls undress during school, isn't attacking anybody. It's protecting everybody. It takes a pretty warped mind to call that attacking anybody.

"They want curriculum posted online"

The horror! Imagine that if I'm paying big money for something that my kids are exposed to, that I want to see what it is? The nerve of some people!

Wayne, you never, not once, were curious about what your kids were being taught? You never bothered to ask about any details? Never?

You don't get it. The teachers work for the parents. Not the other way around. Teachers are public servants. They exist to serve the public.

In another post here, you said it's the responsibility of the parents to educate their children. Fine. How can parents educate their kids, without having some knowledge of what the kids are being taught, without having some input.

You seriously said that it's the parents responsibility to educate their kids, but parents should shut up about what happens in school. That doesn't sound stupid to you?

You'll say ANYTHING to serve liberalism.

You also ignored my obvious question...if it's YOUR responsibility to educate your kids (which you said it was), what possible right do you have to ask others to pay for your kids' student loans?

You want my money, but you want me to shut up about how it's spent.

[wdmso]

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017...chool-vouchers


The biggest headline from the program's growth is this: Today, more than half of all voucher students in the state have no record of attending a public school.

Good read

This I found hypocritical In 2011 voucher law prohibited the state from regulating "curriculum content, religious instruction or activities, classroom teaching, teacher and staff hiring requirements, and other activities carried out by the eligible school."

But in public schools they want to pass a bill One of the main features of the bill is that it would prohibit eight different concepts focused on sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, national origin, or political affiliation

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017...chool-vouchers


The biggest headline from the program's growth is this: Today, more than half of all voucher students in the state have no record of attending a public school.

Good read

This I found hypocritical In 2011 voucher law prohibited the state from regulating "curriculum content, religious instruction or activities, classroom teaching, teacher and staff hiring requirements, and other activities carried out by the eligible school."

But in public schools they want to pass a bill One of the main features of the bill is that it would prohibit eight different concepts focused on sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, national origin, or political affiliation

Wayne, if you don't like those things, you don't have to send your kids to a school that advocates for those things. But where would you get the right, to deny parents the right o use their tax dollars to send kids to a different school, if the parent feels that private school is a different fit?

If public schools could get their act together, there wouldn't be large numbers of families who want to flee the public schools.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars to pay for a school that's a better fit for their child, but again, YOU have the right to everyone elses money to help pay for the cost of educating your kids. You have that right.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Wayne, if you don't like those things, you don't have to send your kids to a school that advocates for those things. But where would you get the right, to deny parents the right o use their tax dollars to send kids to a different school, if the parent feels that private school is a different fit?

If public schools could get their act together, there wouldn't be large numbers of families who want to flee the public schools.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars to pay for a school that's a better fit for their child, but again, YOU have the right to everyone elses money to help pay for the cost of educating your kids. You have that right.

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars

No Jim that you and Republicans are just lying thru your teeth

Yet you and conservatives crazy’s think parents are suddenly smarter the the people teaching them. That’s funny

And what kids get taught is a secret. ? And school board and parent teacher conferences don’t exist? or never existed to address questions?

That takes a special kind of arrogance…. And dishonesty which the GOP has in abundance to spread such BS . But their base eats it up..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

So you say hat parents have no right to see what's taught in public school, no right to comment on what's taught, have no right to use their tax dollars

No Jim that you and Republicans are just lying thru your teeth

Yet you and conservatives crazy’s think parents are suddenly smarter the the people teaching them. That’s funny

And what kids get taught is a secret. ? And school board and parent teacher conferences don’t exist? or never existed to address questions?

That takes a special kind of arrogance…. And dishonesty which the GOP has in abundance to spread such BS . But their base eats it up..
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

you complained in a previous post here on this thread, that republican parents want to see what their children are taught, and you said so as an obvious criticism. Now you’re denying what you said.

why should anyone assume that teachers are all smarter than anyone else? being educated and being smart are two very different things

see, once again you’re all over the place. on the one hand you say it’s the parents’ responsibility to educate their kids. on the other hand, you say we have no right to question anything that teachers do. So which is it? How can you not see that those two statements are contradicting each other? How can you be that clueless?

Questioning teachers isn’t questioning their intelligence. It’s based on the fact that i know my kids better than any teacher ( who has them for 45 minutes a day with 15 other kids in the class) will ever know them. Teachers know how to teach better than the average person walking around, but any good parent knows their own kids a thousand times better than any teacher ever will.


“dishonesty”… the parents complaining about porn are literally reading from books that are in the schools. but you won’t admit they’re even being honest.

You’re as dishonest as any politician wayne. The liberal can never be wrong, the conservative can never be right. Obviously the truth isn’t nearly that simple, but you have convinced yourself that it is. That’s unbelievably dishonest.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you complained in a previous post here on this thread, that republican parents want to see what their children are taught, and you said so as an obvious criticism. Now you’re denying what you said.

why should anyone assume that teachers are all smarter than anyone else? being educated and being smart are two very different things

see, once again you’re all over the place. on the one hand you say it’s the parents’ responsibility to educate their kids. on the other hand, you say we have no right to question anything that teachers do. So which is it? How can you not see that those two statements are contradicting each other? How can you be that clueless?

Questioning teachers isn’t questioning their intelligence. It’s based on the fact that i know my kids better than any teacher ( who has them for 45 minutes a day with 15 other kids in the class) will ever know them. Teachers know how to teach better than the average person walking around, but any good parent knows their own kids a thousand times better than any teacher ever will.


“dishonesty”… the parents complaining about porn are literally reading from books that are in the schools. but you won’t admit they’re even being honest.

You’re as dishonest as any politician wayne. The liberal can never be wrong, the conservative can never be right. Obviously the truth isn’t nearly that simple, but you have convinced yourself that it is. That’s unbelievably dishonest.

Jim just be honest if you can ?
you post twisted alternative facts after alternative facts. And try to sell them here as a national crisis. You repeat everything you hear on right wing media.. aka lies and regurgitating them

From parents being targeted as domestic terrorist to Paul pelosi
To porn in school , teachers indoctrinating children or groomers to the POTUS controls gas prices

The list is never ending

But here is what is missing and no surprise because we know you’re deep in right wing web


Pompeo calling teachers union president Is “the Most Dangerous Person in the World”—Ahead of Kim Jong Un

You Teachers unions are evil. (Classic). But the Doj targeted parents lol

Then 3 pages of school choice grievances while you’re kids don’t go to public school ?

The pillow guy running for RNC chair

You : silence.

Trump dinning with Nicholas Fuentes

You : silence

Counties in Arizona, Pennsylvania fail to certify election results by legal deadlines

You silence.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

But these private schools who take public money can still pick and choose their students.. here’s an example

In its online admissions packet, Lighthouse Christian Academy in Bloomington lays out its expectations of students. It lists "behaviors prohibited in the Bible" to include "homosexual or bisexual activity or any form of sexual immorality" and "practicing alternate gender identity or any other identity or behavior that violates God's ordained distinctions between the two sexes, male and female."

It’s not and never been about helping underserved children

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

But these private schools who take public money can still pick and choose their students.. here’s an example

In its online admissions packet, Lighthouse Christian Academy in Bloomington lays out its expectations of students. It lists "behaviors prohibited in the Bible" to include "homosexual or bisexual activity or any form of sexual immorality" and "practicing alternate gender identity or any other identity or behavior that violates God's ordained distinctions between the two sexes, male and female."

It’s not and never been about helping underserved children

You picked one extreme school. My sons catholic high school has a few gay and trans students, they are welcome to attend the school.

There are many, many private schools with no religious affiliation.

If you're opposed to private schools taking public money, then explain why you're OK with using public money to pay off your student loans. I'll wait.

You cannot win this one...you boxed yourself into a corner from which there's no escape, when you supported the idea of student loan forgiveness, and when you said it's the parent's responsibility to educate our children.

So you're entitled to public money to educate your kids at the college you choose to send them to, but poor people in urban areas are not.

I'd just love to hear you justify that.

[Pete F.]

Meanwhile in other parts of the right wing media fog, imagine the quality candidates they'll find if Mike Lindell runs RNC
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Trump Demands Kari Lake Be 'Installed' as Ariz. Governor

Former President Donald Trump, citing a "criminal voting operation," demanded that fellow Republican Kari Lake be "installed" as Arizona's governor after irregularities on election day threw the race into question.

And people will still vote for this bum?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

News flash: If you outlaw abortions, criminalize providing gender affirming care for trans youth, dictate what educators can teach in schools, and stop people from voting, you're not the party of "limited government."

The sad truth is if Trump really wanted the GOP to disown him, he should have met with Liz Cheney instead of Kanye or Nick Fuentes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

News flash: If you outlaw abortions, criminalize providing gender affirming care for trans youth, dictate what educators can teach in schools, and stop people from voting, you're not the party of "limited government."

The sad truth is if Trump really wanted the GOP to disown him, he should have met with Liz Cheney instead of Kanye or Nick Fuentes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Conservatives want abortion decided at the state level, not at the federal level. That's perfectly in keeping with the idea of smaller federal government and more local control, which is the basis of conservatism. If it matters, it's also exactly in accordance with what the US constitution says. Once at the state level, advocating against the slaughter of a million unborn babies a year is hardly totalitarian. We like life. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

"criminalize providing gender affirming care for trans youth"

This is so new, no one has had a chance to think about anything, the left keeps running as far as it can into the liberal abyss. I'm not sure how I feel about physically or chemically mutilating kids who aren't capable of making those decisions yet. I know how I feel about forcing female athletes to share locker rooms with boys.

"dictate what educators can teach in schools"

You really are an idiot. The idea that parents can have a say in what gets taught, is exactly in line with the idea of small government. We want individuals to have some influence, rather than letting the government have all the say. Your philosophy, which is to take tons of money from parents but forbid them from having a meaningful say in how it's spent, is obviously the big government approach. As often is the case with you, you git it exactly wrong.

"stop people from voting cheating"

Do drug tests stop people from working?

Fixed it for you. I have a friend who voted via mail-in ballot. The security there is that they validate the signature on the ballot (because everyone is trained to be handwriting analysts, right?). He's right-handed. He signed his ballot with his left hand, and signed it intentionally to look nothing like anything he has ever signed before. His ballot was accepted. It's obviously ripe with potential for fraud. I picked up a mail-in ballot for a relative who's in a nursing home, they just handed it to me without asking any questions. They had no idea who I was, nor did they care. There's no conceivable way of knowing that she would be the one to fill it out and return it.

"you're not the party of "limited government."

You are when the other side wants the federal government to be massive.

Wayne does this too. He says that every time a conservative proposes any kind of law, that he's violating the principles of small government. Wanting small government, isn't the same as wanting zero government.

Stick to claiming that John Brown and Abe Lincoln were liberals.

[wdmso]

The my pillow guy would be an idiotic choice for head of RNC. your MAGA friends would disagree

Trump is a jerk who makes all kinds of mistakes. excuses so dining with a white supremacist is just a mistake

If counties fail to certify elections be deadlines, let's look into why, and fix it. more excuses they refused because their republicans claiming fraud

There. I addressed every single point you claimed I was silent on. Now show me the same courtesy and answer this question...

no really jim you just threw out some BS answers ... if any of those topics bothered you their would have been 3 paragraphs telling us about it

by what logic does your kid have more of a right to my tax dollars to pay off her student loans, than my kids have a right to my tax dollars to send them to the best school

it's very easy JIM once you pay your taxes it's not your money anymore .. why is that a hard concept to understand , what's next you disagree with Military spending and you want your % of tax back or I don't own a car so give me my highway and roads % back declaring its my tax Money it's a fantasy that once you pay it's still somehow yours

student loan relief is no different than PPP loans .. its giving taxpayer money to others ... funny I never complained about it you never complained about it ... but once you were told to be outraged about the student loan issue you and the rest of the conservative world had a meltdown and we all know why Because it wasn't a republican who is attempting to do something for the average American

But giving billions in tax cut and free money to Businesses whether they needed it or not . you and republicans remained silent and took the money

And if school choice for poor inner city black and minorities to have a better education is the actual goal of school choice . then why should it apply outside underperforming school districts ..

we all know the answer because it's about conservatives wanting to use public funds to send their children to religious schools .. just a wolf in sheep's clothing