Bailing out GM

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Joe

You can only fit one giant ego into a Gulfstream.

[justplugit]

So they're sending the big 3 back to return again with a plan on Dec 9th on what the auto makers $$$$ will be used for.

After a week of testimony, Barney Frank doesn't even know how many$$$ they are asking for. I'd laugh, but it's too sad.

Pelosie, Reid, Frank, Schumer, and Dodd couldn't wait to get to the mike to talk about there new plan.

They don't even know how much they want, no, i just gotta laugh at our genius leaders.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Explain this one to me....this is from an article I was reading on yahoo news..

"GM this month said it lost $4.2 billion in the third quarter and almost $73 billion since the end of 2004."

They've been getting run into the ground for 4 years yet...

"The GM CEO got $14.4 million in compensation in 2007, including a salary of $1.56 million."

$13 million in Bonuses...for what???? Running the company into the Ground...i'll do that for them for 1/2 that.....Amazing

[striperman36]

They have needs.

[Raven]

ok thats a wrap....move along people...


nothing to see here... it's turkey time

go make a pie ....move along now...

[striperman36]

Chances for deal called 'remote'


Note to self. Don't fly private jet to beg for money.

http://www.boston.com/business/artic...as_unanswered/

[Rob Rockcrawler]

Growing up in michigan i know how much the economy of the state depends on the auto industry. All of my friends fathers were shop rats. Gm stands for Generous Motors. Way to generous in my opinion. A lot of the blame can be placed on the UAW. The amount of money GM pays to retirees and on their benefits is astounding. I dont know the number of people that are suckling on the GM teet but its huge.
A major restructuring is in order as we all know. The executives are grossly overpaid in that industry like so many others. People need to be rewarded for their performance, and management is no different. Pay someone a hefty salary and if they dont perform be done with them.
I may be way off here but if we had a national healthcare system wouldnt companies be able to spend the money that goes to pay for the healthcare of their employees on something that actually shows a return. Its not a bad thing to spend money if there is a return, if you dont get anything back its a waste. I know that the corporate taxes would increase to pay for something as massive as nationalized healthcare but it wouldnt be near as much as they spend on insurance.
I really think the big 3 need to be bailed out in some way. Yes there has to be stipulations. Real change needs to be done. Nobody wants to lose their jobs, and if the employees do lose their jobs the UAW will lose their dues. The union need to be a little more realistic with their negotiations.
Michigan is already at 8.5% unemployment. And the number is steadily rising. There is a trickle down effect of plants closing and the industry slowing down. As someone else mentioned the amount of aftermarket products, parts accessories etc being produced to go along with the cars is huge.
I really hope that Gm can make it back big with their electric cars and hybrid technologies that are going to be the future of the worldwide auto industry. The quality of the vehicles is good if not great in many models. They have a bad rap for making crap because of a long list of flops produced in the 80's and 90's.
My best friend works for GM at the proving grounds, has been there for 10 years now and is doing pretty well for himself. His wife just got laid off. 3 days later they found out she was pregnant with their first. He is really worried that his layoff might come on any given Friday.
Sorry for the long winded rant but its something i feel strongly about because it really is quite close to home.

[Slipknot]

Well if they are in trouble and need bailing out, they can go to a bank like everyone else does or sell stock or whatever. The fatcats at the top just don't get it, maybe it's time they walk a mile in their employees shoes

[scottw]

November 26, 2008 6:00 AM

Ivan and Boris Again
We are all Russian peasants?

By Thomas Sowell

There is an old Russian fable, with different versions in other countries, about two poor peasants, Ivan and Boris. The only difference between them was that Boris had a goat and Ivan didn’t. One day, Ivan came upon a strange-looking lamp and, when he rubbed it, a genie appeared. She told him that she could grant him just one wish, but it could be anything in the world.

Ivan said, “I want Boris’s goat to die.”

Variations on this story in other countries suggest that this tells us something about human beings, not just Russians.

It may tell us something painful about many Americans today, when so many people are preoccupied with the pay of corporate CEOs. It is not that the corporate CEOs’ pay affects them so much. If every oil-company executive in America agreed to work for nothing, that would not be enough to lower the price of a gallon of gasoline by a dime. If every General Motors executive agreed to work for nothing, that would not lower the price of a Cadillac or a Chevrolet by one percent.
Too many people are like Ivan, who wanted Boris’s goat to die.

It is not even that the average corporate CEO makes as much money as any number of professional athletes and entertainers. The average pay of a CEO of a corporation big enough to be included in the Standard & Poor’s index is less than one-third of what Alex Rodriguez makes, about one-tenth of what Tiger Woods makes and less than one-thirtieth of what Oprah Winfrey makes.

But when has anyone ever accused athletes or entertainers of “greed”?

It is not the general public that singles out corporate CEOs for so much attention. Politicians and the media have focused on business leaders, and the public has been led along, like sheep.

The logic is simple: Demonize those whose place or power you plan to usurp.


We could confiscate "all" of the wealth of the top 5% who currently pay a lions share of the Federal taxes in this country and it would not run the federal government for very long....but of course a lot of people would "FEEL" better wouldn't they?
Kicking the crap out of the execs. is pointless unless you simply want to feel BIG.....the union influence is like a cancerous growth on business and government.....how can you justify paying 12,000 employees to play cards at full time pay unless you are bound and gagged by insane work rules...I hope they go bankrupt and rid themselves of these foolish contracts and work rules become competitive again by paying competitive market compensation rather than union negotiated foolishness....

have any of you looked at the Electoral map and noticed that most of the areas "in BLUE" are the areas of the country that are fiscally screwed right now and have been run by democrats legislatures and liberal ideaology for quite some time...yet they keep electing democrats in greater numbers and maybe an occasional liberal Repubican...huge populations of government dependents that can't take a crap without help from government....and they keep grabbing their ankles and asking for more......

like Rahm Emmanuel said " You never want to waste the opportunity of a good crisis to get things done that you might not otherwise be able to convince the public to accept" that's pretty close...

like this "CHANGE":
Argentina-

The Kirchner administration has been moving aggressively to counter the effects of the global crisis.
On November 20 it nationalized 26 billion dollars worth of private pension funds run by 10 banks, a move opponents believe is really aimed at preventing a loan default on Argentina's national debt of some 150 billion dollars.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

But when has anyone ever accused athletes or entertainers of “greed”?

Me......All the Time.....Way to much money to play a game.

And last time I looked Tiger or Gay-Rod weren't asking congress for Tax Dollars

[Joe]

Its not "good UAW bad CEO" or bad "CEO good UAW," it's more a case of bad CEO's and bad UAW.
The auto companies were under the burden of uncompetitive labor contracts and that was part of the reason they failed, the other part was piss poor leadership.

[sokinwet]

My guess is... that the folks in the post on the Lehman Bros.failure were not in a union...that if all union workers agreed to work for min. wage we wouldn't see a public benefit ....that many of you are unfamiliar with our countries history and why unions came into being...and that not many of you are in a "real" union and regret it. And "HEADS UP" ScottW....some bitter ,"anti worker" corporate shill is posting under your screen name!

[Raider Ronnie]

The hell with the big 3, let them all go under !
As a matter of fact, the hell with all the gready unions in this country !
Bail the big 3 out, who is next in line ???
Maybe the policemens union in Ma. (no more USELESS paid details)
Maybe the NFL players (like Ty Law making STUPID statements like "he needs to feed his family" when he's making more in a year than most make in a lifetime !
ect..........................................